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-   -   US Presidential Election 2016...because it's never too early (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/us-presidential-election-2016-because-its-never-too-early-218216.html)

nbelcik 03-25-2015 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono_212 (Post 7925514)
Scott Walker legit frightens me, especially because I really feel like he's going to get the nomination.


Yeah, I believe that he's the only Republican candidate who might have a chance against Hillary and that's why he scares me.


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anitram 03-25-2015 07:55 AM

Have any of you read anything about Ted Cruz' father?

Batshit crazy doesn't even begin to cover it.

I also agree about Scott Walker being scary. The problem is that there is actually a real issue re: private vs. public sector pay, allocation of benefits (and the fact many states actually cannot afford to stand behind them), etc which resonates with a LOT of people. Plus it's an issue that is more of a pure economic/conservative one, albeit with social undertones, so it is easier to cling to it and push it in the media without looking insane. It just does not have the revulsion of the "let's make sure all women have transvaginal ultrasounds forced on them before they can have an abortion" or "gays are icky."

nbelcik 03-25-2015 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anitram (Post 7925571)
Have any of you read anything about Ted Cruz' father?

Batshit crazy doesn't even begin to cover it.

I also agree about Scott Walker being scary. The problem is that there is actually a real issue re: private vs. public sector pay, allocation of benefits (and the fact many states actually cannot afford to stand behind them), etc which resonates with a LOT of people. Plus it's an issue that is more of a pure economic/conservative one, albeit with social undertones, so it is easier to cling to it and push it in the media without looking insane. It just does not have the revulsion of the "let's make sure all women have transvaginal ultrasounds forced on them before they can have an abortion" or "gays are icky."


Rafael Cruz is insane. Go to Right Wing Watch if you're interested in reading more about him. It's funny because the right is always talking about how Obama's (absent) father supposedly influenced him into becoming a socialist, communist, freedom-hating Muslim, but they don't give a shit about Cruz's dad because they agree with him.

I hope that Democrats will attack Walker's economic record because it isn't good. Wisconsin (which is Republican) is doing pretty bad compared to Minnesota (which is Democratic).


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PhilsFan 03-25-2015 03:53 PM

The problem with Walker is that he's "accomplished" things and will point to that over and over again. What he's accomplished is dreadful, but like Anitram said, it's not considered insane in the mainstream.

iron yuppie 03-25-2015 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 7925474)
A lot of my fellow Wisconsinite Facebook friends are freaking out about Scott Walker. I'd like to think he is also too divisive or "far right" to be a serious contender, but I feel like I don't know enough about it to know for sure.

Yeah I've heard the Walker predictions as well; he's too polarizing even in his own right-leaning state to be a serious contender on the national stage. Plus he has even less charisma than Romney, as if that were even possible.

deep 03-25-2015 04:51 PM

it's a two stage process

1. who can get the GOP nomination
2. can that GOP nominee win a few toss up states to get 271 electoral votes


answer to both of those questions is that Walker is capable of doing both
Cruz is not.

Mrs. Garrison 03-25-2015 05:44 PM

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corv...ea955360b1.png

This is kind of the dream ticket
 
especially for Democrats

corianderstem 03-25-2015 06:45 PM

I think Scott Walker shouldn't run, because we all know that none of us are really ready for Scott Walker.




#oldinterferencejokesdiehard

BVS 03-25-2015 08:24 PM

:lol:


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the iron horse 03-25-2015 10:43 PM

Dershowitz: Ted Cruz one of Harvard Law's smartest students | The Daily Caller

nbelcik 03-25-2015 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the iron horse (Post 7925732)


Doesn't matter how much brainpower he has if he does things like deny that climate change exists. It's possible to be incredibly intelligent but still be really dumb. Ted Cruz falls into this category.


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deep 03-26-2015 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 7925685)
I think Scott Walker shouldn't run, because we all know that none of us are really ready for Scott Walker.




#oldinterferencejokesdiehard

Probably one of the best qualified to run
because we all know before one runs they must know how to walk

tapatalk, it works

LuckyNumber7 03-26-2015 01:59 AM

For anyone who thinks Jeb's Bushiness will prevent him from winning an election, you're wrong.

Jeb is much more of a centrist than W. That's why he's currently fighting that label in his own party. He's also a lot more well spoken than W. He might struggle more with winning a primary, but in my opinion he's Hilary's only threat. Don't forget, Florida is increasingly becoming a blue state, and Jeb is idealized for being able to steal the state. He's essentially the last... good governor this state has had.

He's pretty much the only republican Id be willing to listen to, albeit I probably wouldn't vote for any of them.

For whoever said Ted Cruz would be on a ticket with Jeb though... absurd thought. Jeb is level-headed. Then again... McCain did choose Palin as a running mate.

Headache in a Suitcase 03-26-2015 12:46 PM

Ted Cruz has just a hair less electability than Donald Trump. But it's close, so he's got that going for him.

Irvine511 03-26-2015 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbelcik (Post 7925740)
Doesn't matter how much brainpower he has if he does things like deny that climate change exists. It's possible to be incredibly intelligent but still be really dumb. Ted Cruz falls into this category.


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he's just really cynical and wants money and influence. people don't want to believe in climate change because it's inconvenient and it may require a change of behavior. Cruz exploits this.

U2DMfan 03-26-2015 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 (Post 7925752)
For anyone who thinks Jeb's Bushiness will prevent him from winning an election, you're wrong.

I agree. He can win the GOP pretty damn easily. People writing off Jeb so easily are in for a surprise. What do the Republicans normally do?

1. Big money controls everything in government and politics...and the GOP has plenty of it...nearly all on the side of the establishment.

2. In the 50+ years since the Goldwater mistake, they support the most electable establishment candidate. Always. No matter the rhetoric of Reagan pretending to be an outsider (etc.) none of them were outsiders. They all had big money behind them.

3. Over that same period (since '64), in all but one instance they have nominated a candidate that had been through the fire before. (McCain, Reagan, Dole, Romney...all of them). The one instance where that didn't apply? George W Bush. The legacy vote.

4. George HW Bush is just as much Jeb's father as W is his brother. The establishment (the smart guy business conservatives, not the Reagan-worshippers) respects Bush 41 more than any living Republican. And Jeb is seen as "the smart son" to these people.

5. His stances on immigration and potentially other areas are far more electable than the vast majority of these GOP candidates.

I'm not saying the Bush legacy won't be a drag on him...it certainly will...but people get too narrow minded on this shit. Clinton has as much drag on her too but it doesn't matter in either case.

80% of the people already will vote for the D or the R and it's that simple. Of the 20% in the middle that can be swayed, issues like equal rights (women, gays) and immigration are quite important. Jeb fits that bill. Will he get out of the bloody GOP primary without needing to pander too much? I don't know but if he can show signs of life early on, I think he rolls to the nomination.

And I also agree, he's the only one that could remotely beat HRC. But he won't. The demographics, the electoral college...the basic GOP platform...it's all going against them.

If I had to bet right now, I'd say Walker-Bush or Bush-Walker and that's entirely dependent on whether Walker is a legit national candidate or another Rick Perry/Tim Pawlenty, both wilted like a flower in the national spotlight.

U2DMfan 03-26-2015 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511 (Post 7925865)
he's just really cynical and wants money and influence.

That's accurate. People should think: Rush Limbaugh. It's not that they don't hold core conservative principles, it's that they pretend to be loons to appeal to the loons that buy into this shit...for money.

Some of them accrue that money through books sales (etc.) and some of them amass wealth through becoming elected to high office. I suspect the main difference between these two types of cynical individuals actually is intelligence.

The sad thing is, you really have to be a fair amount of cynical to get anything done in government. Because of the nature of how elections are won - by creating simple, easily digested fantasies. But here is the PARADOX that people need to understand. The cynical smart guys will get real behind closed doors. The genuine True Believers won't.

So in a lot of cases, it pays more to be cynical...and it's harmful to be sincere. I don't mean "pays more" in terms of $$$, though that too, I mean in terms of doing the work of the people. Like Obama had to drop his fantastical rhetoric ("most transparent administration ever") and go behind closed doors and let the health insurance corporation write the Affordable Care Act. I don't blame him for that for one moment. He got the shit done. Clinton did it all the time too...all the smart guys do. Only to be attacked by the fantasists that believe the crap they were told in order to vote for (whoever).

And the one major roadblock in the way of ANYTHING getting done in Washington? Those True Believers. The folks who are actually sincere and actually believe in what got them elected. The dueling ideologies are fantasies that can't work in the real world. The Left sells a fantasy to aspire to - an ideal that can never be reached. The Right sells a fantasy of selected reality - everyone that doesn't adhere is simply wrong, or biased against them.

Such is the paradox of our government...

Irvine511 03-26-2015 03:56 PM

would there be anything more depressing than Bush vs. Clinton?

talk about dynasties.

that's what was so great about Obama -- he felt like we were finally turning the page on the Baby Boom and moving into the future, getting us out of the culture wars of the 60s and the scars of Vietnam.

and yet here we are.

MrPryck2U 03-26-2015 07:06 PM

Don't forget Irvine, 1992 was a 3 way dance. If Perot isn't in the mix taking votes from Bush, Slick Willie doesn't win.

When Obama was elected, it felt like a new beginning. Unfortunately, the GOP just did their absolute best to sabotage his presidency, fucking the entire country in the process.

deep 03-26-2015 09:58 PM

The 92 election was about the economy, Perot did not spoil Bush at all. Bush was a very well know quantity, a vote for Perot was a vote against Bush.


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