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BEAL 06-30-2014 05:20 PM

Hobby Lobby decision
 
This is a dangerous decision. Corporations now have faith? Guess of they're people. Can they go to jail too?

So where will this end? Can Muslim owners require women to wear burkas? Other xtian owners deny blood transfusion ?

I realize that the courts said it's ONLY for certain contraceptive, but at some point other companies will argue for more religious rights against it's employees.

The four or five plans it can now deny don't aren't even abortion related, it's it has nothing to do with AFTER fertilized egg, but more to prevent fertilization.

Tired of money buying the law in this country


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bono_212 06-30-2014 05:21 PM

I do not get this, not at all. It seems like a horrible precedent for future religious people to use their faith to get out of paying for health care.

Irvine511 06-30-2014 05:22 PM

wtf is it about contraception? seriously. why that?

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:26 PM

I'm having trouble understanding what this covers, all the articles I am reading just vaguely say "the four contraceptive methods".

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:29 PM

Furthermore, this article I'm reading on NBC has me confused. Does this decision only effect the companies that sued, or can any company that says they have religious right not to provide these four contraceptives do so? The NBC article seems to suggest it's only the three, but I didn't think that was how SCOTUS works.

deep 06-30-2014 05:32 PM

Anyone that receives insurance should have to sign and oath that they will not pull out.

Pulling out and spilling seed is going aginst G-d.

deep 06-30-2014 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono_212 (Post 7806095)
I didn't think that was how SCOTUS works.

If it is working properly the seeds come from there.

LemonMelon 06-30-2014 05:37 PM

Cheapskates, honestly. And if they aren't, cheapskates can use their argument.

Anyway, it's a self-defeating argument; if you want to limit abortion, support condoms.

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:38 PM

OK, wait, is this accurate?

It doesn't affect:
• Most birth control pills
• Condoms
• Sponges
• Sterilization
It does affect:
• Plan B "morning-after pill"
• Ella "morning-after pill"
• Hormonal and copper intrauterine devices (IUDs)


Hobby Lobby case: What birth control is affected?

corianderstem 06-30-2014 05:39 PM

So is Hobby Lobby (and the other companies) just trying to avoid to allow their employees to have contraception covered at 100% (per the ACA, as it is a preventive medicine), or do they not want to cover it at all? As in, "No, you can't even pay $10 copay to get it, you have to pay full price."

Either way it's an appalling situation, but it's an important distinction (especially since they apparently will cover Viagra).

I am, however, tempted to read Ginsberg's 35-page "This is Bullshit" rebuttal, because, yes.

Edit: I am surprised to see that article claiming it does not impact "most birth control pills" - that goes against everything I had read (and thought I understood) so far.

LemonMelon 06-30-2014 05:41 PM

Even if that list is accurate, it's a slippery slope. There's nothing stopping another business from trying to duck taxes to Planned Parenthood under a similar heading.

corianderstem 06-30-2014 05:42 PM

I don't even think it's about them being cheapskates - anyone dealing with health insurance knows that actually giving birth costs a gajillion times more* than contraception.

It's about not wanting to cover contraception because morals. Vomit.





*true actuarial fact, yo

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:45 PM

See, I want to know exactly what this covers, before I get too riled. I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

Also didn't know that condoms were apparently covered by insurance? Been wasting money >_>


Either way, to distinguish, on a religious basis, what is and isn't allowed to be covered does open it up, as many has already pointed out, to other people of other faiths, that don't believe in blood transfusions, vaccines, etc.

corianderstem 06-30-2014 05:46 PM

Condoms are available over-the-counter, so are not really covered under insurance. I think even health care reimbursement accounts (aka flexible spending accounts) specify that you can only be reimbursed for OTC purchases with a prescription.

I should know that off the top of my head. Let me check our plan info ...

Edit: it lists "contraceptives" under the heading of "able to get reimbursed with a prescription," but I don't know that a doc would ever write an Rx for condoms. Weird. (Birth control pills are listed elsewhere; you can get reimbursed for your copay, assuming it's the kind that you're not getting for free thanks to the ACA.)

But even with that, that's not the same as being "covered by insurance," it just means the IRS considers it a "reimbursable health care expense" for purposes of these programs, so I'd like to know more about that.

/Benefitsnerd

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:49 PM

See, that's what I was thinking. That seems weird that they'd be covered under insurance.

I'm so glad you're in HR :lol:

LemonMelon 06-30-2014 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 7806105)
I don't even think it's about them being cheapskates - anyone dealing with health insurance knows that actually giving birth costs a gajillion times more* than contraception.

It's about not wanting to cover contraception because morals. Vomit.


*true actuarial fact, yo

It's 2014. If you're a religious individual, you have to pick your poison; contraception is an inevitability. Support that cheaper, safer form of contraception to prevent others or risk look like a hypocrite.

anitram 06-30-2014 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono_212 (Post 7806107)
I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

How many medications are covered by insurance that are not a "necessity"?

Is Viagra a necessity?

corianderstem 06-30-2014 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono_212 (Post 7806107)
See, I want to know exactly what this covers, before I get too riled. I'm honestly surprised that the morning after pill is covered by insurance. Not sure how I feel on that one, it's not exactly a necessity, is it?

You're not saying you'd have a problem with it being covered by insurance at all, are you? (i.e., I pay a $10 copay and the insurance company - or my employer if they're self-insured - pays the rest)

Or are you saying "it shouldn't be covered for free, make them pay a copay like other meds"?

If it turns out the HobbyLobby does not want to include birth control at all, then I have a big problem because apparently they are fine covering Viagra. If they are saying "no, we just don't want it to be free," I don't have as much of a problem with all of this (although definitely agree it's a very dangerous precedent and still pisses me off in general).

If they are saying they don't want to cover it at all, then they can kiss my rosy red ass.

corianderstem 06-30-2014 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LemonMelon (Post 7806112)
It's 2014. If you're a religious individual, you have to pick your poison; contraception is an inevitability. Support that cheaper, safer form of contraception to prevent others or risk look like a hypocrite.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here?

bono_212 06-30-2014 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anitram (Post 7806115)
How many medications are covered by insurance that are not a "necessity"?

Is Viagra a necessity?

Is Viagra covered? See, this is why I'm asking questions.


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