U2 Feedback

U2 Feedback (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/)
-   Free Your Mind (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/)
-   -   Bullying - What Can Be Done? (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/bullying-what-can-be-done-212696.html)

Pearl 10-29-2011 07:42 PM

Bullying - What Can Be Done?
 
I watch a lot of CNN and this whole month the station has been having specials on bullying, especially in school. CNN has been exploring why bullying takes place, how it happens, and what can be done about it.

Stop Bullying: Speak Up

Now I might be cynical, but I don't think there's anything that can be done to stop bullying. First off, principals and teachers do very little to stop it because they don't have the backbone to deal with it, they're bullies themselves, or they don't want to be bothered. Second of all, as long as someone is sensitive, weak and/or lacking in confidence, they'll always be targeted. And also, bullying doesn't end after high school; it can easily happen in the workplace.

I do think something needs to be done about the suicide taunts, Facebook pages aimed at hating someone, and other forms of tech bullying. I also think when the bullying gets physical, someone should be arrested just like in the real world, and also when rumors destroy someone's reputation, lawsuits should be filed. I believe that form of bullying should be treated as it is in the real world and not shrugged off as "kids' stuff".

But I truly don't think bullying would ever go away. It seems there is some sort of mission to end it once and for all. That sounds naive and silly to me because there will always be that one bully, that one group of kids who go along with him or her to avoid being taunted, that one kid who is taunted, and the one school who turns a blind eye to it all.

I'm curious as to what others think about this issue.

And I speak - with great bravery - as someone who was bullied both at school and in the workplace, and is still healing from those scars.

Liesje 10-29-2011 09:26 PM

I don't agree that teachers and principals are bullies and don't want to be bothered. Sometimes they are the MOST bothered, more than the bullies and their peers or the parents, but can't do anything because the only consequences they can use are not ones that really matter. Phil had to meet with his principal one time because a kid accused Phil of manhandling him and the mother was furious. The kids he was dealing with were not just bullies but would bring weapons to school, push girls around and grab at them, in fifth grade. What is a teacher to do when the worst punishment they have is keeping a kid inside for recess? Often the parents just don't care until they think the teacher is the one overstepping the line, then they will come up to bat for their kid but won't take responsibility for the kid's behavior towards others.

I do not subscribe to the "let boys be boys" attitude but I do feel that in general kids these days are emotionally immature and lack coping skills. That is just in general, bullies included. I think the bullying and its effects are symptoms of how kids these days seem to be raised and how they can cope. I know that is a generalization and oversimplification but that is just what I observe having a husband and family members who are teachers and even working in a college (same thing seems to be true for many college kids, we get some in a work that leave me wondering how they even dress themselves).

Pearl 10-29-2011 09:45 PM

The reason why I say teachers can be bullies is because my fifth grade teacher certainly was one. He would humiliate, taunt, and insult us. He even made some kids cry in frustration, including the class bully.

I agree that some parents don't want to believe that their kid is a bully, because I knew a lot of parents who were like that. Those parents I don't understand.

the iron horse 10-29-2011 10:00 PM

"First off, principals and teachers do very little to stop it because they don't have the backbone to deal with it, they're bullies themselves, or they don't want to be bothered."

~Pearl



I am a teacher in a public middle school.

I agree that bullying has increased in schools, but I disagree your assessment
of principals and teachers.




More later >>>

Pearl 10-29-2011 10:10 PM

I don't mean to offend anyone, but my assessment comes from my experience.

Liesje 10-29-2011 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl (Post 7395148)
The reason why I say teachers can be bullies is because my fifth grade teacher certainly was one. He would humiliate, taunt, and insult us. He even made some kids cry in frustration, including the class bully.

Yeah, anyone can be a bully, but IMO taking this experience and ending up with...

Quote:

First off, principals and teachers do very little to stop it because they don't have the backbone to deal with it, they're bullies themselves, or they don't want to be bothered.
....is quite a stretch.

I can agree that sometimes they do very little I just don't agree with the three things listed as being the only reasons why. I think ultimately it goes back to parenting (and I'm not saying that a bully means bad parents, but that parents are the ones that need to intervene) and that parents set the standard for what teachers and administration can get away with as far as punishment and consequence for bullying.

Last year Phil had a kid in his class that had some major issues and was often a danger to himself and other kids around him. Phil went (IMO) way above and beyond for this kid, kept records of everything they were doing and dealing with, regular meetings with parent, aid, social worker, etc, he'd come home at night and talk to me about this one kid for an hour several nights a week...certainly not a situation where he just "didn't want to be bothered." It bothered him a lot more than I felt it should have and without his reports and recommendations I doubt the solution that was implemented would have ever come about (and in this situation, it was the best thing for the school, the other kids, and this particular kid in order to get the help he needs so he doesn't end up in some serious trouble).

the iron horse 10-29-2011 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl (Post 7395165)
I don't mean to offend anyone, but my assessment comes from my experience.


No offense. We both stated our opinions.


I do see this as a real problem in schools today.


Interested to see what others say.

Dfit00 10-30-2011 01:40 AM

When kids have these problems it is best to tell them to live and plan for the future and not for the present.

BVS 10-30-2011 01:43 AM

I'm really hoping you don't have kids, or anything to do with kids...

purpleoscar 10-30-2011 01:01 PM

Without adequate punishment there is no reason to stop bullying. Bullies enjoy power and schadenfreude and won't give that up unless the pain is more than the pleasure. All I can say to the victims is that you can't wait for a better system to arrive. It's best to learn to protect yourself and if that requires changing schools, learning self-defence and (for adults) improving your skill sets so you can start a business or improve yourself in the workplace, then do that now. If bullying is supposed to be intolerable then law enforcement has to reflect that otherwise nothing will be done.

VintagePunk 10-30-2011 01:12 PM

A good start is for parents to raise their children to have empathy. Alas.


Eta - this video came out earlier this week. It's Rick Mercer, a Canadian comedian/TV personality. It deals with gay kids (Rick is gay as well) and bullying/suicides, but I think the principles can apply to any bullying. Adults have the power to stop it, and as a society, it's time we did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K96J7BpjM0k

Jive Turkey 10-30-2011 03:32 PM

Bullying will never stop because it's just the darker side of human nature. Other animals do it too.
I don't agree that it's getting worse. That seems to be the knee jerk reaction for everything these days. We just hear about it more

corianderstem 10-30-2011 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey (Post 7395725)
We just hear about it more

And now there are whole new formats in which to perpetuate the bullying, so I can see how it may have gotten worse.

VintagePunk 10-30-2011 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey (Post 7395725)
Bullying will never stop because it's just the darker side of human nature. Other animals do it too.
I don't agree that it's getting worse. That seems to be the knee jerk reaction for everything these days. We just hear about it more

I agree that it's always been around, but I also think that some bullies are more extreme in their behaviour and level of cruelty, and some of the bullied react in more extreme ways as a result. I also think that there is probably more of a blind eye toward it now on the part of adults than there was a couple of generations ago.

Still, let's say for arguments sake that it's the same as it always has been. Does that mean we should sit back and accept it as part of life? I'd like to think we're capable of becoming a bit more enlightened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 7395740)
And now there are whole new formats in which to perpetuate the bullying, so I can see how it may have gotten worse.

And this.

Jive Turkey 10-30-2011 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 7395740)
And now there are whole new formats in which to perpetuate the bullying, so I can see how it may have gotten worse.

Stop cyber bullying me, Cori :sad:

BoMac 10-30-2011 06:16 PM

RMR: Rick's Rant - Teen Suicide - YouTube

BoMac 10-30-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl (Post 7395054)
But I truly don't think bullying would ever go away. It seems there is some sort of mission to end it once and for all. That sounds naive and silly to me because there will always be that one bully, that one group of kids who go along with him or her to avoid being taunted, that one kid who is taunted, and the one school who turns a blind eye to it all.

So with that being the case, we shouldn't do anything at all to try to make things better?

That's what I take from your post.

Pearl 10-30-2011 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoMac (Post 7395848)
So with that being the case, we shouldn't do anything at all to try to make things better?

That's what I take from your post.

No, I do think we should try to make things better. I think I am just cynical because growing up I was always the one who was bullied, and no teacher, principal or any adult did anything about it, no matter how often I complained.

I think what needs to be done is teach not only empathy to children and teenagers, but also confidence to those who are bullied. The reason why I was picked on was because I suffered from social anxiety and severely lacked confidence. Anyone could walk all over me and it was difficult for me to stand up for myself. And the worst thing was, I was blamed for my problems and the bullying.

So I believe those who are bullied need to be taught confidence and how to assert themselves. And also, teach confidence to those who are doing the bullying because they do it out of severe insecurity themselves. Teach them to believe they are worth it, not to horribly jealous, etc.

Rachel D. 10-30-2011 07:53 PM

Kids need to be taught that it's OK to defend themselves. You can teach sensitivity and all kinds of other things, but it's still human nature to pick on the ones who seem weak or timid. So teach the weak and timid ones to not be afraid to fight back. Take it from me, nothing is more shocking to an arrogant jerk or a bitchy cheerleader than when the "quiet one" is suddenly in their face telling them off.

Jive Turkey 10-30-2011 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoMac (Post 7395845)

Nice video, Reposty Magoo

BoMac 10-30-2011 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl (Post 7395871)
No, I do think we should try to make things better. I think I am just cynical because growing up I was always the one who was bullied, and no teacher, principal or any adult did anything about it, no matter how often I complained.

I think what needs to be done is teach not only empathy to children and teenagers, but also confidence to those who are bullied. The reason why I was picked on was because I suffered from social anxiety and severely lacked confidence. Anyone could walk all over me and it was difficult for me to stand up for myself. And the worst thing was, I was blamed for my problems and the bullying.

So I believe those who are bullied need to be taught confidence and how to assert themselves. And also, teach confidence to those who are doing the bullying because they do it out of severe insecurity themselves. Teach them to believe they are worth it, not to horribly jealous, etc.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey (Post 7395920)
Nice video, Reposty Magoo

Oops. I didn't notice that VP also posted the video. Sorry.

And, really, is name calling necessary?

purpleoscar 10-30-2011 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel D. (Post 7395912)
Kids need to be taught that it's OK to defend themselves. You can teach sensitivity and all kinds of other things, but it's still human nature to pick on the ones who seem weak or timid. So teach the weak and timid ones to not be afraid to fight back. Take it from me, nothing is more shocking to an arrogant jerk or a bitchy cheerleader than when the "quiet one" is suddenly in their face telling them off.

:up:

Bully gets beaten up - YouTube

Punk Takes on Gulf War Vet and Gets a`Falcon Punch` Les Andrews` - YouTube

yolland 10-30-2011 11:09 PM

I'm bothered by the looseness with which the term 'bullying' is often used, amidst all the public attention it's been getting lately. Sometimes people seem to be using it as a catchall for 'any deliberate behavior that hurts others.' I think that's way too broad, not because I doubt that intentionally hurting others always warrants a response, but because the social and psychological dynamics involved can be so varied and therefore the responses must be also. An exceptionally aggressive and sadistic child who as a matter of course goes around selecting and stalking targets seems to me like quite a different situation from kids emboldened by the power of the group sporadically unleashing aggressions they wouldn't have on their own, for example.

As far as unhelpful parents and teachers go, I always had the impression the most common obstacle to their effectively addressing bullying is simply that they often don't grasp what's going on; there's only so much of the social dynamics between kids they can observe. Even other kids are often unaware a classmate is being tormented until they happen to witness some specific incident, and when they do, very often they say nothing to anyone, for various reasons (afraid of becoming a target themselves, figuring involving an adult might make the bullied kid feel even more humiliated, sticking up for their friends etc.). And of course kids who are perpetrating bullying, harassment, or other aggressive behaviors don't go around telling adults about it, and will often lie when asked directly.

yolland 10-30-2011 11:12 PM

Also, I suspect you won't see many schoolteachers giving a thumbs-up to the "fight back" philosophy, due of the number of fights and injuries they've seen caused by kids who took from that an entitlement to avenge themselves. I realize some of you were probably more talking about verbally standing up for yourself (or a peer who's being picked on, for that matter) in response to verbal taunts, but there can be a pretty big difference, both psychologically and consequentially, between that and "fighting back."

BVS 10-30-2011 11:51 PM

Are these really examples of bullying?

purpleoscar 10-31-2011 12:15 AM

On the top story I know for sure because that's been all over the news. The kid was bullied for being fat by MANY students and the little kid just joined in and got what he deserved. Some people learn the golden rule the hard way. He complained later that he did it because he was bullied too which got no sympathy from the general public. The bottom one just looks like it. It helps that the bottom video has a guy who is actually patient and only hit when he had to. I know I wouldn't have that much patience. I would have gotten a baseball bat. :giggle:

Achtung11 10-31-2011 03:34 AM

As a victim of bullying during my school years, I appreciate and am glad that this thread was started to draw more attention to the issue, so I'd like to thank the OP for that.

In my experience, one of the main reasons teachers didn't help with the issue was simply because they didn't take bullying seriously, probably because it involved kids and probably because most of it was non-physical. I can clearly remember complaining to the teacher once for being made fun of, back in 2nd or 3rd grade, and she told me that "Just tell them that 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'". I just walked away because I didn't know what else to say, or didn't know how to express myself any further.

The other main reason, in my experience, was that some kids, certainly me, had no idea what it meant to defend oneself, or how to get help, or how to complain and get your voice heard. For me, telling my parents was really hard also, because it would be embarrassing. Also, as a kid never really having experienced what it's like to have a normal social life, often times I would internalize and try to brush it off thinking that this is a fact of life. If I was really saddened or depressed by something, I would just wait it out until I feel better. Not knowing any better, and not being mature enough to talk about my feelings were certainly problems (like in the example I gave above).

It might be different for everyone, but I thought I'd share how it was from my perspective, and hopefully it helps with the discussion. Thanks again to everyone for drawing attention to the issue.

Achtung11 10-31-2011 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl (Post 7395054)

And I speak - with great bravery - as someone who was bullied both at school and in the workplace, and is still healing from those scars.

:hug:

Wow, when I made my post above, I didn't realize that you and I were in the same boat.

BVS 10-31-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purpleoscar (Post 7396129)
The bottom one just looks like it. It helps that the bottom video has a guy who is actually patient and only hit when he had to. I know I wouldn't have that much patience. I would have gotten a baseball bat. :giggle:

You can't tell if it's bullying from this video. And his patience just shows to me that he's had some formal training and he's disciplined.

mama cass 10-31-2011 10:25 AM

Derren Brown has just done a really interesting show on this, bullying and mob mentality - here's a link, the "bullying" thing starts at 7.40 min, but the first part is fascinating too!

Derren Brown - The Experiments: The Gameshow (Full) - YouTube

Pearl 10-31-2011 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achtung11 (Post 7396187)
:hug:

Wow, when I made my post above, I didn't realize that you and I were in the same boat.

:hug:

I'm sure it was tough and the bullying took its toll over the years. I hope you're in a more peaceful point in your life.

mama cass 10-31-2011 11:29 AM

have to say, in my own experience of being bullied, i used to try putting a brave face on and laughing about it or ignoring it, trying to show that it wasn't getting to me or trying to pretend that i hadn't actually noticed lol... nowadays, if it happens, i again try avoidance/pretend not to notice, and then get upset afterwards and think of all the clever things i should have said in response...

i did retaliate once when i was young, at school, and kicked the boy really hard in the shin, i was so mad! he never hassled me again after that, and i got quite a bit of "respect" - really hurt my foot though lol...

i really really hate bullies... i have a tendency to wade in and stand up for others more than i stand up for myself though...

also, as a parent, i'm very conscious of bullying among the kids at school here, and it's something i will not tolerate, and hope i have educated my kids well enough not bully or tolerate bullies...

purpleoscar 10-31-2011 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7396309)
You can't tell if it's bullying from this video. And his patience just shows to me that he's had some formal training and he's disciplined.

From the youtube video description:

Quote:

A DAD seen flattening a yob in a clip sweeping the internet was yesterday unmasked as an ex-soldier - with TWO black belts.
The Sun tracked down Gulf War veteran Jason Smith, 35, who said: "He deserved it."
Burly Jason - a 15st master in karate and jiu-jitsu - was filmed felling the foul-mouthed idiot outside his home as a crowd gathered.

The clip has been viewed 200,000 times on The Sun's website.

Jason, who has been a bodyguard to stars, had no idea why local "hard nut" Les Andrews stood on his step ranting and raving in St Helens, Merseyside, while his mate Alan Hodson looked on.

He decked him with a single blow. Wife Rebecca, 23, who had cowered with 22-month daughter Boudiccia, said: "I was proud."

Andrews, 23, was arrested and hit with a curfew for yobbery.

Jason said of becoming a web sensation: "People sick of yob culture enjoy seeing someone turn the tables."

Thug Martial Arts Humiliated The Sun Jab Fight Yob UK Karate Jason Smith Jiu-Jitsu Gulf War Veteran A thug is seen hurling abuse at a man on his doorstep and trying to goad him into a fight - unaware his "victim" is a martial artist.
Jason Smith is a Gulf War Veteran with two Black Belts..
He is a Master in Karate and Jiu-Jitsu.
Les Andrews, what a scally.

It was 'yobbery'. I had no idea this was a "culture". :giggle:

BVS 10-31-2011 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

From the youtube video description:

It was 'yobbery'. I had no idea this was a "culture". :giggle:

Right, but like yolland said the term "bullying" is being over used and I don't see anything in this video or description that makes for certain that it was bullying. To me it just looks like a gratuitous example of "he deserved it" violence.

Jive Turkey 10-31-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mama cass (Post 7396445)
and think of all the clever things i should have said in response...

Hahaha, this was my typical response too

indra 10-31-2011 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mama cass (Post 7396445)
i did retaliate once when i was young, at school, and kicked the boy really hard in the shin, i was so mad! he never hassled me again after that, and i got quite a bit of "respect" - really hurt my foot though lol...

I did that when I was a little kid too once!

Except I had these hard leather orthopedic shoes (yeah, they were as horrifying to wear as they sound... :sigh: ), so when I kicked the kid (it was a girl in my case) it really hurt her, but didn't hurt me a bit. :evil:

I will say I was shocked when I did it...I was sitting at my desk with my arms crossed in front of me and my head down (just trying to ignore it) and this girl was standing in front of me calling me names and teasing me, much to the delight of the little group of girls standing about 10 feet away egging her on. All of a sudden my foot just shot out and connected with her shin hard -- it sounded a bit like whan a bat really connects with a baseball. It was as if my foot had a mind of it's own...I didn't think "I'm gonna kick the bitch" it was as if my mind wasn't connected with my body for a second there. It was rather disconcerting, but also pretty damned satisfying.

Stopped that incident of harassment, but didn't change much overall.

BonosSaint 11-01-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indra (Post 7396576)
It was rather disconcerting, but also pretty damned satisfying.

Sometime it does the soul good:evil:

I wasn't bullied in school. I was one of the bullies. I would target people. I didn't do it all the time and I am fairly sure I wouldn't have gone to some of the extent I've seen. But I hurt people. There was certainly a power play, a predatory bloodlust in play there. It took some retraining for me.

yolland 11-02-2011 08:15 PM

The Atlantic, Nov. 2
Quote:

Bullying research, it seems, has focused more on understanding aggressors, not the aggrieved. Given how pervasive and brutal bullying is, however, it's hard to justify a prevention-heavy approach to research that neglects treatment. A new study in the journal Child Development aims to correct this imbalance. Instead of asking why bullies bully, scientists led by University of Illinois psychology professor Karen D. Rudolph are beefing up the coping side of bullying research by looking into why victims retaliate, ignore, or repair relationships after an attack. Through a series of surveys to 373 second-graders and their teachers, they investigated how each child approached and valued his or her peer relationships, how many of the children had been bullied, and how they responded to such attacks.

...Though it wasn't astounding to find out that half of the children reported being the object of taunts, gossip, or intimidation, how they reacted to their harassers was. The key to anticipating victims' responses, it turns out, is to figure out their motivations for interacting with their peers in the first place. That is, kids who wanted to be popular and feel superior tended to retaliate impulsively. Those who wanted to appear cool by avoiding criticisms were more likely to pretend like nothing happened. And those who were genuinely interested in fostering friendships tended to react in healthful, positive ways. They asked their teacher for advice, sought emotional support, and found means to solve the tension with those who harassed them. Promoting an egoless approach to building relationships that encourages children to react in such mindful ways is key to protecting kids from the psychological blowback of bullying. Rudolph's study shows that kids who are able to respond with care have better mental health than those who respond to stress thoughtlessly. As University of Maine psychologist Cynthia Erdley puts it, "Children who adopt pro-social development goals seem to be well-prepared to deal adaptively with the challenges they are likely to experience."

The tendency of the effects of bullying to worsen when left untreated underscores the need for early intervention as well. Rudolph and her team, who followed the children through the third grade, noticed that, the more frequently children were bullied, the more likely they were "to freeze up or to keep going over it in their mind, but not actually do something about it." A previous study on mistreated kids in middle school also found that responding to bullies violently, impulsively, or in over-the-top ways can make the abused less accepted and a more attractive target to aggressors.

Another way to improve victim behavior may be to inculcate the value of working on relationships, according to an earlier study by Rudolph. Children who believed friendships are fixed, succeeding or failing without their involvement, tended to be more enamored with popularity and may be more vengeful as a result. On the contrary, those who viewed their friendships as works in progress tended to appreciate their peers more and interact more responsibly. "If children believe that effort is worthwhile, they'll feel less threatened or helpless when they hit bumps in their relationships," she says, "and they'll be more likely to try to resolve relationship problems."

Further research is needed to see if these victim-oriented strategies apply beyond middle childhood, as the politics of bullying becomes infinitely more complicated as kids get older. Seeking help from teachers, which is considered a viable recourse for kids in elementary, may incite ridicule and more attacks from high school bullies, for example. Tweens and teens, especially girls, also become much savvier bullies with time. Targets of so-called "mean girls" may have to learn to detect and counter a less overt form of bullying, called relational aggression, that involves spreading rumors or excluding peers. Victims may also feel weighed down by reputations that are harder to shake off, especially online. And, naturally, adolescents may be especially inclined to improve their image to impress others as hormones kick in. Still, teaching kids how to deal with bullies while they are young gives them their best chance of managing future conflicts. "If we can identify early patterns of interactions that emerge during this time, whether adaptive or maladaptive," says Rudolph, "then we can figure out ways to optimize children's social and mental health before they progress toward potentially more serious problems during the adolescent years."

financeguy 11-02-2011 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonosSaint (Post 7397388)
Sometime it does the soul good:evil:

I wasn't bullied in school. I was one of the bullies. I would target people. I didn't do it all the time and I am fairly sure I wouldn't have gone to some of the extent I've seen. But I hurt people. There was certainly a power play, a predatory bloodlust in play there. It took some retraining for me.

Honest post. I think the majority of us are entirely capable of such behaviour, and worse, TBH. You have your sociopaths/psychopaths, but the majority of bullies are probably not of that type, and behaviour modification/re-training can work for the majority.

I've had personal experience of, in my view, bullying from a senior manager. The mere brandishing of a copy of the organisation's anti-bullying code - with a colleague present as witness - was sufficient to achieve behaviour modification.

On the other hand, I've seen people get away with totally sub-standard work performance, either because their bosses were afraid to rock the boat and take on the union, or because their bosses were just poor, ineffective and/or insufficiently assertive managers.

I guess my basic opinion on bullying, at least as it pertains to the work place, is that managers should be allowed to get on with managing, but there should be tough anti-bullying procedures in place also.

Pearl 11-02-2011 11:57 PM

I agree. I was bullied a few years ago at work. One reason why it happened is because I work in media, which is by nature cut throat. But another reason why it occurred was because the boss who was in charge of us entry-level people, didn't have the backbone to stop it.

MrsSpringsteen 11-03-2011 08:27 AM

Nothing can be done about bullying until adults stop being bullies too

BonosSaint 11-03-2011 10:11 AM

^Truth that.

There is too much tolerance for bullying. Too much tolerance for all sorts of bad behavior. We all look away too much. It can be lessened if all the good people spoke up, stood up, held the bullies accountable consistently, made it socially unacceptable to bully, embarass the bullies. But we probably won't do it.

yolland 11-03-2011 05:17 PM

I don't know...while there will always be bullies of all ages, it sure seems to me that I saw far, far more of it as a child in school than I have in the workplace as an adult. I've worked full-time for a little over two decades now, in two very different kinds of careers, and I can only think of one person I've worked with whom I'd describe as a bully (he was a pretty epic one though, wound up going down in flames with multiple lawsuits against him). Whereas in school and especially during the K-8 years, I'd say I saw it weekly or more. Of course different kinds of workplaces have different social cultures, and no one sees and hears everything that happens in their workplace, but still. Besides, when you're talking behavioral patterns that tend to persist throughout life unless decisively addressed early--like bullying, and poor responses to bullying--childhood would seem to be the ideal stage to focus concerted efforts on. So long as the scope of the problem being focused on and the goals being aimed for are clearly defined.

mama cass 11-03-2011 06:00 PM

i was brought up in a family of bullies - my father bullied my eldest brother, eldest brother bullied my middle brother, middle brother bullied me, i would cry, then eldest brother would beat the crap out of middle brother to defend me

i know how bullies work - i saw the master bully in action very close at hand while growing up... so i'm very conscious of trying my best not to be like him! my greatest fear is to turn into my dad, and i've said to my husband he must kick me into touch if i show any sign of doing so LOL!!!

in the family, it's such a destructive thing - it was divide and rule! and has totally wrecked my extended family, it's pretty sad!

given the chance these days, i.e., if any of us actually bothers to make the call and speak to him, he will still talk down to us quite horribly and offensively, and treat us like "kids" and takes all the credit for our professional "success" when he did fuck all, it's quite hilarious... but he seriously cannot cope with being corrected, argued with, or when we talk back to him like adults... we tiptoed around him and appeased him all our lives while living under his roof, and after a while, you just can't do that any more without it being seriously damaging to your own mental wellbeing... but the upshot is, we have no relationship, which cuts when he is the only surviving parent... the saddest thing is, he doesn't value people, and just cannot see what he is missing out on... we're all just his "evil naughty disobedient children"! so yeah, bullying is a pretty destructive horrible thing... it has totally trashed my (extended) family... none of us (apart from me and my eldest brother) basically have anything to do with each other any more...

yolland 11-03-2011 06:57 PM

^ That sounds awful, particularly the longterm damage to family ties. I like what you said about being aware of the dangers of your own knowledge of how those dynamics work. I understand a little about family bullying. My next oldest brother was severely afflicted with Tourette's as a child and was frequently bullied (often physically, as in beaten up) by other kids as a "freak." He became a sullen, angry kid who directed his desires for physical revenge at me (when our parents weren't around of course), and since I was considerably smaller, I was pretty much helpless to defend myself. The result was that I became hypersensitive and hyperdefensive towards any physical taunt whatsoever, no matter how slight--I was that kid where if you fleetingly thwacked me in the cheek with your thumb and forefinger, I'd grab someone's metal lunchbox and bash you repeatedly in the face, or kick you in the knees so hard you'd be limping the rest of the day, one time I pounded an older kid over the head with a rock until his scalp bled. It took several years and several "discussions" with teachers and my parents before it finally sunk in that this was a dangerous and stupid way to react. I never attacked anyone who hadn't physically taunted me first, and verbal taunts I seldom responded to at all, but in those days I was perpetually primed to react 5000% at the first hint anyone saw me as physically vulnerable. Thankfully my younger siblings weren't around until I'd outgrown that phase, otherwise I'd have probably turned around and done to them what he did to me, just like you describe. Sometimes there can be longterm psychological advantages to being the most "helpless" one within the situation.

BonosSaint 11-03-2011 07:13 PM

I have seen a lot of bullying in the workplace. I've generally lucked out because I hide my weaknesses well and I'm beyond caring. But I see a lot of people experiencing it. While in my workplace, the bully is a man, what I've seen in a lot of other places is woman on woman bullying--the demeaning, the undercutting, the careful to do it when no one is watching strategy, the innuendo, the shunning, the "you're crazy" when the bully is called out--the invalidating of the other. Women are very clever at it. And some men hire that type of woman to be their bully by proxy. It gets around the discrimination claims. Maybe it is the social culture. Petty small town tyrant shit, maybe. But I've heard of a lot of it. I think it's gotten more refined.

I understand concentrating on the young. But I'm pretty sure without re-enforcement down the line, the lesson's not going to take. Nobody changes until they see a benefit to themselves for changing.

the iron horse 11-03-2011 08:42 PM

Back in the early 90s schools begin to punish not only the
one who started the fight, but the student who fought back.

Today, in the school where I work, both students are expelled
for five days or more.

It seems to me that bullying has increased since the early 1990s.

The victims, knowing the consequences, or less inclined to fight back.


This policy, I think, has only compounded the problem.


Bullying is as old as dust and sometimes the dust needs to be hit
in the nose.

Headache in a Suitcase 11-03-2011 09:10 PM

I don't think bullying has increased whatsoever. I think it was much, much worse when I was a kid. I think there is a lot more attention given to the topic now, which makes it seem like it's happening more and more often.

:shrug: maybe its just the school I work in, but I don't see the same cliq's that dominated high school when I went. Kids are pretty much readily accepted for who they are across the board.

I was an awkward, gangly kid with a girls name through elementary school and middle school. I know a thing or two about being bullied. :shrug:

Its certainly not gone, and some of it can still be downright vicious... but I think the more attention given to the issue has made it less wide spread, at least where I am.

the iron horse 11-03-2011 09:23 PM

https://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/...-bullying.html

Liesje 11-03-2011 09:44 PM

It seems that bullying has become more psychological? Like all the 'net stalking kind of stuff. My parents tell stories about when they were kids how people would just creep behind someone and beat a kid up. Maybe it's the schools I went to but I can only remember one (ongoing) instance of a kid physically bullying another kid for no reason.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com