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-   -   So, we're fucked, right? (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/so-were-fucked-right-211826.html)

Headache in a Suitcase 07-25-2011 06:34 PM

So, we're fucked, right?
 
Quote:

President Obama will use the bully pulpit in prime time tonight and House Speaker John Boehner will give Republicans side immediately after as the two take their party’s separate cases to the American people in a high stakes and last-minute fight over the debt ceiling.

The President will address the nation live at 9 pm from the East Room
apparently the big O will say that the US is at an "imminent threat of default"

yolland 07-25-2011 07:26 PM

I'm kind of afraid to watch, honestly.

deep 07-25-2011 07:27 PM

"We raised the debt ceiling seven times during the Bush Administration," Warren Buffett told CNBC on Thursday. Now, the Republican-controlled Congress is "trying to use the incentive now that we're going to blow your brains out, America, in terms of your debt worthiness over time."

Headache in a Suitcase 07-25-2011 08:11 PM

just because we did it a hundred times before doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep doing it. obviously we need to do it in the short term here, but we need serious discussion on paying down the debt and becoming a more fiscally responsible nation.

unfortunately neither one of these douchebag parties are capable of thinking of anything other than their own political futures, so yea... we're fucked.

no where in the constitution does it say anything about a two party system filled with schmucks who put party loyalty in front of what's good for the country. fuck the democrats, fuck the republicans. they both suck.

financeguy 07-25-2011 09:06 PM

Default, or debt renegotation as we prefer to call it nowadays, isn't the end of the world. Countries have recovered from default and prospered.

maycocksean 07-25-2011 09:29 PM

It's not complicated. When you're spending more than you are taking in--there are TWO things you do, not one.

--Reduce your spending
--Seek out ways to increase your income.

Ask any American who's opted to take on second job or work longer hours. . .spending cuts alone aren't always sufficient.

iota 07-25-2011 10:46 PM

I was really hoping Obama would man up and threaten to use the 14th ammendment. Then Boehner would have instantly appeared powerless and foolish. There is only time now to pass the Cut, Cap and Balance clone bill and it will keep us in this turmoil for the next 6th months. Why? Because the freshman class wants to hold us all hostage indefinitely. The 14th ammendment is the only way out, and will instantly render this pathetic excuse for a congress impotent.

Irvine511 07-25-2011 11:22 PM

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kccV3wV_Vf...presidents.gif

Canadiens1131 07-26-2011 02:02 AM

Republican Party want to create a debt default situation to blame Obama for when they run in 2012. Even if that involves wrecking the country's credit rating.

Democrats are idiots, but the Republicans are leading the idiot charge this election cycle.

Caleb8844 07-26-2011 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 (Post 7300481)
Republican Party want to create a debt default situation to blame Obama for when they run in 2012.

And Democrats want to put off the inevitable until after 2012, so that it's not a major issue in the election. Neither party gives a damn about anything but playing politics.

Earnie Shavers 07-26-2011 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 7300129)
Default, or debt renegotation as we prefer to call it nowadays, isn't the end of the world. Countries have recovered from default and prospered.

Yes, but the US, with this timing? Not exactly the same as, say, potential impact of Ireland defaulting or something.

kramwest1 07-26-2011 10:53 AM

The U.S. doesn't have to default to have our credit rating downgraded. It's the sure way, but just being reckless can do it, too.

So, I agree with the premise, we are fucked.

maycocksean 07-26-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511 (Post 7300307)

"Under the current administration we've seen government spending skyrocket, blah, blah, blah."

Let's not let facts get in the way or anything now. . .

I've always felt this sanctimonious sermonizing from the Republicans and their supporters about the debt is total bullshit. What did we hear while Bush was dramatically increasing the size of government. Not a peep.

I simply do not buy that the Republican party and certainly not ordinary voters really care that much about the government's debt. This is all political, period.

Irvine511 07-26-2011 02:10 PM

it boggles the mind how the Bush Tax Cuts won't even be considered by the conservative suicide cult GOP.

U2DMfan 07-26-2011 04:10 PM

Oh yeah, we're pretty much fucked. Even if they raised the debt ceiling two hours from now, we'd still be fucked in the longterm. Why? It's the same reason they are all playing politics with this issue. And it's the only reason for this super insane partisan loyalty. It's also the only reason that the two Rep Senators (Gang of Six) not running for re-election are actually agreeing to tax increases - and one of them is mega-fiscal conservative Tom Coburn. It's not about principles in the least for the super vast majority of ALL of them, Reps and/or Dems.

Special interests/lobbyists = $$$ = re-elections.
It really is that simple.

Nothing could possibly illustrate this better than the Norquist charade.
If these Reps agreed to tax hikes, they would be committing political suicide because of that particular special interest. And more or less, that's how all of it works. That's why the health care bill was done behind closed doors and written by the insurance industry themselves. It's really not that hard to figure out. This is the game of US politics. And this is why a few of us knew that Obama's 2008 rhetoric was pure nonsense.

ntalwar 07-26-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 7300129)
Default, or debt renegotation as we prefer to call it nowadays, isn't the end of the world. Countries have recovered from default and prospered.

Russia in 1998 is an example of this - fortunately for them, oil prices rebounded pretty quickly. At the individual level, however, a currency devaluation could wipe out savings accounts. Retirees and those close to retirement would be hit pretty hard.

Billy Rotten 07-26-2011 05:56 PM

3 words - tax the rich!

INDY500 07-26-2011 08:12 PM

3 words - Balanced Budget Amendment

nathan1977 07-26-2011 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 7301448)
3 words - Balanced Budget Amendment

4 words - Not. A. Real. Solution.

INDY500 07-26-2011 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan1977 (Post 7301464)
4 words - Not. A. Real. Solution.

Agreed, not in one week, but it's the only way to stop the cycle of spend-raise the debt limit-spend-raise the debt limit.

Headache in a Suitcase 07-26-2011 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Rotten
3 words - tax the rich!

Yes, it's always that simple.

Let's tax big corporations to save our asses!

Oh, wait, what? The big corporation left for a tax haven with a better education system and took their jobs with them? Oops.

There is a middle ground, but neither party is willing to accept any sort of compromise.

Yup... we're fucked.

Blow it all up. We're doomed. How's Canada in springtime?

deep 07-26-2011 08:45 PM

They didn't leave they only moved their money there.

Headache in a Suitcase 07-26-2011 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep
They didn't leave they only moved their money there.

Just like Bono!

BVS 07-26-2011 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Agreed, not in one week, but it's the only way to stop the cycle of spend-raise the debt limit-spend-raise the debt limit.

And tell me what would we do in the case of a true crisis?

I would hope that as a father you would feed your children and break budget if you found yourself in a true crisis, wouldn't you? I would hope the country would do the same. There might be moments when this happens, and like so many tea party ideas your lack of foresight would cost us.

coolian2 07-26-2011 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase (Post 7301511)
How's Canada in springtime?

probably cold.


you'd be happy with that!

Headache in a Suitcase 07-26-2011 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolian2

probably cold.

you'd be happy with that!

I can deal with that, eh.

Caleb8844 07-26-2011 09:44 PM

I'm not incredibly familiar with all the details of this crisis, so this might be a completely misinformed, naive idea but: Raise the debt ceiling to avoid immediate crisis, and have a moratorium on raises for the next 4 years at least. Is there a reason that wouldn't be acceptable to all involved?

Irvine511 07-26-2011 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase (Post 7301534)
I can deal with that, eh.



a typical Canadian summer home:

https://img.blogster.com/view/anacoan...oo-outside.jpg

Dfit00 07-26-2011 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7301520)
And tell me what would we do in the case of a true crisis?

I would hope that as a father you would feed your children and break budget if you found yourself in a true crisis, wouldn't you?

Are you on a personal crisis at the moment? If not, then what would you do if you were in one?

BVS 07-26-2011 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfit00
Are you on a personal crisis at the moment? If not, then what would you do if you were in one?

Are you seriously asking me something?

Explorer10 07-26-2011 11:44 PM

Canada would be happy to have you.

You could always live here for our 4 month summer when the Igloos melt and the Polar Bears migrate up south.

Dfit00 07-26-2011 11:45 PM

Quote:

Are you seriously asking me something?
Not at all, obviously after it was asked verbatim.

Way to avoid the question...

BVS 07-27-2011 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfit00
Not at all, obviously after it was asked verbatim.

Way to avoid the question...

:huh: First of all, personal question. Secondly, was it not obvious the way I framed the question what I would do?

Dfit00 07-27-2011 12:17 AM

Yes I got that, but a personal/individual crisis is different from a nation's crisis (where not everybody in that nation is actually in a crisis). You criticized INDY500 for his tea party ideas by stating that those ideas end up being costly in the long run.

Quote:

There might be moments when this happens, and like so many tea party ideas your lack of foresight would cost us.
Costly to whom? Don't you think that some new thought into fiscal policy is important since the instability between democrats and republicans in this topic is already going beyond crazy?

Irvine511 07-27-2011 12:26 AM

so who else is excited for when the Tea Party tries to shut down the government in September?

BVS 07-27-2011 12:33 AM

Dftt I'm not sure you understood my line of questioning. Let's say the national government has been completely fiscally responsible and then find ourselves in a war combined with another global economic meltdown, do we really want it to be unconstitutional to break budget in case of emergency?

kramwest1 07-27-2011 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7302255)
I'm not sure you understood my line of questioning. Let's say the national government has been completely fiscally responsible and then find ourselves in a war combined with another global economic meltdown, do we really want it to be unconstitutional to break budget in case of emergency?

This.

BVS 07-27-2011 12:48 AM

It seems like such common sense, right?

kramwest1 07-27-2011 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7302270)
It seems like such common sense, right?

You know what else seems like common sense? Paying for what you've already spent.

We all went out to dinner in the last 10 years. Some of us ordered salad. Some of us order the lobster and a bottle of Dom. Now that the waiter brought the check, some people are saying that we ALL ate dinner, so we should divide the check evenly.

Bullshit.

solemole 07-27-2011 12:53 AM

So what do you want to CUT?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...p_budget_7.gif

https://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo...4sr8o1_400.jpg

https://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...10tro1_500.jpg

solemole 07-27-2011 12:57 AM

Actually, here is 2010 budget breakdown:

19.23% Social Security
18.74% DoD
16.13% Unemployment, welfare, and other mandatory spending
12.79% Medicare
8.19% Medicaid...
4.63% Interest on National Debt

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...y_category.jpg

Dfit00 07-27-2011 01:01 AM

Of course we don't want it to be unconstitutional if it goes to that extreme. The nature of the debate centers on the issue of divided government and opposition between both parties; they will never make it to a compromise in situations like this because that's how the system was made, inefficient and corrupt.

solemole 07-27-2011 01:08 AM

Ahhh... this is what i wanted to find... from @westwingreport


https://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/phot...yjhL0k7Slv0%3D

solemole 07-27-2011 01:12 AM

Raising the debt ceiling is imperative...

Financial consequences, political games.

Raising the debt ceiling is NOT the end of the world. It is, if we don't.

solemole 07-27-2011 01:33 AM

How many increases in the debt ceiling have Presidents presid... on Twitpic

^broken pic

BVS 07-27-2011 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfit00 (Post 7302295)
Of course we don't want it to be unconstitutional if it goes to that extreme.

But Dfit, I was commenting specifically to INDY about his comment on how we needed a "Balanced Budget Ammendment".

MrsSpringsteen 07-27-2011 10:53 AM

F you Trump. What do you care, sitting on your wealth.


On Monday, Donald Trump urged Republicans to reject any deal with Democrats to raise the debt ceiling and let the country risk default. Economists and administration officials have warned that defaulting on our debt would have dire economic consequences, but for Trump there is an upside: the crisis would prevent President Barack Obama from being reelected.

"Frankly the Republicans would be crazy unless they get 100 percent of the deal that they want right now to make any deal,” Trump said on "Fox and Friends" Monday. "If this happens, for instance if this stuff is going on prior to an election, he can’t get reelected. He possibly can’t get elected anyway. … The fact is, unless the Republicans get 100% of what they want, and that may include getting rid of Obamacare, which is a total disaster, then they should not make a deal other than a minor extension which would take you before the election which would ensure Obama doesn’t get elected, which would be a great thing."

Host Brian Kilmeade pointed out that Americans currently blame Republicans more than Obama for the debt ceiling crisis, but Trump responded that, in the long run, the blame will fall on Obama, not Republicans.

"I don’t care about polls," Trump said. "When it comes time to default, they’re not going to remember any of the Republicans' names. They are going to remember in history books one name, and that’s Obama."

kramwest1 07-27-2011 11:54 AM

He does know his leveraged empire will go down in flames if the U.S. defaults right?

Earnie Shavers 07-27-2011 03:12 PM

‪West Wing from s06e20 - Debt Ceiling‬‏ - YouTube

maycocksean 07-27-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen (Post 7302601)
F you Trump. What do you care, sitting on your wealth.


On Monday, Donald Trump urged Republicans to reject any deal with Democrats to raise the debt ceiling and let the country risk default. Economists and administration officials have warned that defaulting on our debt would have dire economic consequences, but for Trump there is an upside: the crisis would prevent President Barack Obama from being reelected.

"Frankly the Republicans would be crazy unless they get 100 percent of the deal that they want right now to make any deal,” Trump said on "Fox and Friends" Monday. "If this happens, for instance if this stuff is going on prior to an election, he can’t get reelected. He possibly can’t get elected anyway. … The fact is, unless the Republicans get 100% of what they want, and that may include getting rid of Obamacare, which is a total disaster, then they should not make a deal other than a minor extension which would take you before the election which would ensure Obama doesn’t get elected, which would be a great thing."

Host Brian Kilmeade pointed out that Americans currently blame Republicans more than Obama for the debt ceiling crisis, but Trump responded that, in the long run, the blame will fall on Obama, not Republicans.

"I don’t care about polls," Trump said. "When it comes time to default, they’re not going to remember any of the Republicans' names. They are going to remember in history books one name, and that’s Obama."

It's unbelievable how blatant they are about it. . .It's as ugly as I've ever seen politics in this country. And what's worse is Trump and the like feel they CAN be this open about it, they believe it won't hurt the Republican's standing with the public.


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