Illinois & California set sights on the Dream Act.
 

Lawmakers send Illinois Dream Act bill to Quinn - chicagotribune.com

California State Assembly committee passes part of state DREAM Act - The Daily Californian

Why do American legislative bills all have to have catchy names, based, I can only assume on some convoluted acronym.

"Dream Act" will be the name of Nintendo's new console. No doubt about it.

How about an act to help normal people afford college? It seems like over the past few years almost every demographic has gotten some "break" except for normal hard working middle class people...

don't really eat alaskan mushrooms
don't really ever acknowledge macedonia
democrats reelect everyone's awful memories
don rickles ends america's miscarriages

i know what you mean. the income thresholds are comically low, too. i'm glad that those in extreme poverty get a chance at an education, but it should be about equality. all classes should have access to education.

I should clarify, I did not mean to say I disagree with the act or disagree with helping make college possible for that demographic, I just think that the cost of education is out of control (and competition for grants and scholarships is insane) not just for those who are impoverished or undocumented.

Why can't ALL liberal redistributive schemes be voluntary?

Right? Because we know you and so many others would just line up to help others.

Illegal aliens can't go to college due to their immigration status and this act gives some help by providing them legal residency status, the opportunity to go to college, and some financial aid. US citizens have everything available to them given if the high school student has what it takes to be admitted to his/her preferred college and to receive funding; while illegal and some legal immigrants may have the same credentials (or even better) as the native, US-born kid, they receive no opportunity to go to college and no financial aid only because of their immigration status.

The issue in here is not about giving preference to different ethnic groups, it is about the US government putting a barrier to bright and capable minds that will not be able to do their valuable and needed work in the long run.

Pending a Sega lawsuit.

Optics.

They're not healthcare review boards, they're death panels.

It's not the Affordable Care Act, it's Obamacare.

Republicans get optics and selling ideas to their pitchfork-weilding base, Democrats get walked all over.

That's the theory anyway. That Democrats only lose elections when Republicans successfully employ fraud, wedge-issues or deceitful political rhetoric on a gullible American electorate.

It's delusional and self-defeating but hey, a theory nevertheless.

I don't believe any of that :huh:

Both parties engage in extensive behind-the-scenes get out the vote / make voting harder / redistricting stuff. It's an accepted part of US politics. But I was not referring to any of that with my post.

I was referring to optics and debate-framing, though, which the GOP is much more adept at.

Just wondering where in the US Constitution the president is granted the authority to make law independent of the legislature when he deems it necessary?

Or where he is granted the authority to redefine U.S. citizenship with regard to who may, or may not, reside here legally.

Anyone?

Did he say any of that today?

Even some of the right wing AM radio wackos are agreeing with Obama today and saying that Republicans should have done this awhile ago.

No problem really with what's being done. I simply have a problem with the way it was done.

It's an Executive Order changing how the Justice Department will enforce current immigration law. Questionably constitutional? Yeah, it is. I can't say that this method was very good, even though the policy itself is, for me, one of Obama's absolute high points. Ironically, Obama is following George W. Bush's legacy. Bush was a speculator abuser of the Executive Order. The left hated him for it, and I don't expect the left to have the same reaction to this, but it really isn't much different. It's still difficult for me, though, because I completely agree with the policy and I wish that the DREAM Act has been passed.

Last year:
Obama Tells La Raza He Can't Change Laws 'On His Own' (And Then Does) - YouTube

This year:

https://thepatriotperspective.files.w...ma-emperor.jpg

Good ol' nuanced argument.

The picture made me laugh.

And then there's this: Fox News Watch: White House Leaked Friday's Immigration Announcement to NYT and Time Magazine | NewsBusters.org

https://newsbusters.org/sites/default...Time%20613.jpg

Courtesy of the NY Times and Time magazine we now know what the administration's Forward "Leak of the Week" was last week.

Do you have any actual evidence that it was coordinated?

I read that article in Time on my break at work today.

It was pretty interesting, and explained some of why I feel the way I do about the immigration issue.

I think some people here could do well to give it a look.

you do realize you have made your mind available to a subtle brain washing by the Obama collaborators

to be fair your should probably read the new Romney autobiography, Faith of our Founding Fathers, Why America Can be Great Again

yes, exactly. i told my elite liberal gay multiracial media friends to write that article precisely so we could all have a laugh about the fools who believed the lies we wrote. we clinked glasses of obscure organic wine while paying a bunch of Salvadorians we recruited from the 7-11 on Mt Pleasant and Kenyon $10 an hour to lay down Brazilian walnut flooring in the guest bedroom.

^My wife and I laughed until we cried reading your last post,.Irvine. It's even funnier when you read it outloud!

you should at least give me a half credit

i paid a Mexican $.02 a word to write it for me.

I could have written that for you.

*throws down pencil*

Stupid immigrants, stealing my job!

whatever. Mitt obviously did the same thing, hiring illegal ghost writers even though he's running for office.

Mitt hired Mexicans to cut his lawn :shrug:

Didn't read it but the author was on Bill O'Reilly a few nights ago. Interesting... his grandfather brought him over from the Philippines with a fake visa and social security number. He lied to get into journalism school, lied on his job application for the Washington Post (which he admited was a crime) and didn't say if he ever registered to vote. Our system "forces you to lie" he said. Well, all crime forces the culprit to lie doesn't it?

So he lied to take the slot in journalism school from an American student.
He lied to take a newspaper job from an American worker.
He had a false social security number -- if you or I do that it's called identity theft by the way.
And if he didn't, many of these "undocumented immigrants" vote disenfranchising a voting American citizen. And yet HE'S the victim !!

And these are the "otherwise law-abiding immigrants" the president says we shouldn't, and he won't, deport.

Well I call B. S. We have a problem that needs to be addressed but this is pandering.

And by the way, even if you totally disagree with my take or think me a xenophobic bigot (BVS :wave:), are the president's actions going to alleviate or exacerbate this problem if we don't first stop illegal immigration at our borders?

I believe you wrote that you supported Rubio, that he would be a good pick for V P?

Could Rubio plan lead to citizenship? - POLITICO.com

his plan for these same children was what?

Well, again, I would suggest reading the article. I believe it goes further into detail as to why he had to lie about so much of that stuff. And if his grandfather was responsible for bringing him over when he was young, well, that's not exactly his fault, is it? And then he grows up here and forms a life for himself here, so it's probably not easy for him to just give all that up and go back home.

He acknowledges what he did was illegal and a crime, it's not like he's denying any of that to be true. But see, you and I, because we were born and raised here, will never have to worry about going through legal loopholes to prove we're worthy of being U.S. citizens. I don't know how tough the process is, but I don't doubt there are probably things about it that make it harder for some people to legally come here. But yet they're so desperate to come here for whatever reason (and isn't that proof of America's greatness, the fact that we have people anxious to come here?), so, again, depending on the situation, just getting here is their goal, and they'll worry about the legalities later.

He broke the law, yes, but otherwise, he seems to have made a proper life for himself in every other regard. He hasn't become one of those "lazy bums" that some stereotype immigrants as (again, if they aren't working, they're lazy, but if they're working, they're taking jobs, so they can't seem to win either way). He hasn't turned to a life selling drugs or causing trouble within the country or whatever. In nearly every definition he is as American a citizen as anyone else here. He just doesn't have the legal documents to state such a thing. But I think that can still be fixed, and of all the crimes in the world to deal with, I think we have a few bigger fish to fry right now, sorry.

As for Obama's actions, I honestly don't think it's going to affect things much one way or another. The issue of immigration runs a lot deeper than whatever Obama's doing now, it's not as easy as saying, "Well, we'll just deport everyone/build a fence, problem solved!"

Well said. :up:

I am actually pretty conservative when it comes to illegal immigration. I see no reason to oppose stronger measures to control illegal immigration.

However, I rarely find an opportunity to express my support because the tone of so many of the proponents of stronger measures is so repugnant.

Your post isn't exactly repugnant but it seems lacking in compassion. It's one thing of this guy came over of his own free will and then proceeded to live a life of lies so he could stay. What was missing from your post--what would have made me buy it--was "If it were me, when I found out I was illegally in the country and was old enough to do something about it the first thing I would do, is get a ticket back to the Philippines. I know it would be hard to say goodbye to my friends, family, and life here in America knowing that I'll likely never come back. But it's far more important that I follow the law and not take jobs from the Americans who are actually supposed to be here. I would figure things out in the Philippines and hey, there's always Skype too!"

If you'd said that, well, okay. Maybe I can buy a hardline stance.

It's interesting, because Vargas actually more or less made the choice I described above when he decided to go public with his immigration status. He's actually approached the ICE because he expected that with all the publicity they must surely be planning to deport him. But they told him that they actually have no record of his existence and so can't/won't do anything about him.

But I'm guessing if you were in his shoes you would have taken the onus on yourself and left voluntarily, right?

Excellent post as always :applaud:

I find it disgusting that you have me on ignore, refuse to engage with me yet still call me out on something I haven't done. Nothing but class :up:

:up:

Great post, Sean.

These are my views as well. I immigrated to the west (lived in more than one country before settling on Canada) as a child and while we did so legally, I often think, what would I have done if my parents had taken me abroad out of desperation, as a young child? For people who weren't immigrants as children, you just can't at all understand the difficulties or even the process itself. What happens is that you were born somewhere else and at home you may speak one language, eat ethnic food, celebrate your birth country's holidays or observe their religious practices. But in every other way you become integrated with the society around you. For example, I have no friends in my country of birth. I speak the language fluently but not as well as English. I graduated from elementary school, high school, university and law school in Canada. I learned how to drive here, I had my first boyfriend here, my first job, all the big milestones that you can think of. My partner is Canadian and obviously does not speak my native tongue, though he's picked up some odds and ends here and there.

What does a person like that do when they come to a full understanding of the law and that they are breaking it? Do what Sean's done? It's completely unrealistic, because that person no longer has reasonable or real ties with their "home" country. And by NO CHOICE of their own. I understand what he means when he says that the law forced him to lie, because after a while he felt like an American and everything about him was American. And you expect a person like that to go return to a place around the world that he no longer knows. It's cruel. Deal with the parents or the grandparents in some appropriate way, I agree. But for a law abiding citizen like him who is really a victim of circumstances, let's be a little...Christian, shall we?

You'll probably like this one more than the one in the sin thread. :reject:

You did a better job than I did of explaining this, perhaps because it's informed by your own experience. :up:

Echoing the general sentiment, excellent posts, Sean and anitram :up:. Sean, I'd actually be interested to hear your thoughts further on the issue of immigration. I have no problem with making sure our borders are safe and we are keeping an eye out for people who may come here with dangerous plans and such. I think any laws we make related to immigration should be done with the goal of protecting both immigrants and native U.S. citizens.

But I liked your comment about compassion and putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

Also, thanks, Diemen :).

I predict that by 2050, the majority of prospective immigrants will have already realized the great potential that there is in China and India.

Immigrants will then start running to China, requesting Chinese visas and learning Chinese instead of learning English and going crazy to come to The States.

Chinese immigration laws and restrictions are tougher than in the US and Europe, making it a serious challenge from right now (when the boom hasn't even happened yet) to immigrate to China legally and on a permanent basis.

And don't forget Mexico, with a projected per capita income of about $63,000 by the end of 2050, compared to the current one being about $16K.

This is a couple of months old but still a hoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwV3hn8R6ek

Because he said "our president?"

We already got a non-US citizen in the White House, so why is this absurd? :wink:

I'm surprised that this statement would come off from a person like you.

One thing about Sean, he is a honest person.

With a good sense of humor. :D

You say Indy500's post is borderline repugnant and lacking in compassion. If what you say is true - if you genuinely are a conservative on immigration issues but are not prepared to advocate for it on the forum - then your post is something worse - plain cowardly and vacillating.

In spite of the drug trade related violence, Mexico has kicked the US's arse in recent years on the economy front:-

Mexico elections: failure of drugs war leaves nation at the crossroads | World news | The Observer

Seriously? What is your problem? Did you just completely misunderstand his entire post, or are you just going for full on attack trolling mode? There was absolutely no need for this.