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-   -   What do you think of this ripoff of "van Dieman's Land"? (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f189/what-do-you-think-of-this-ripoff-of-van-diemans-land-210337.html)

Butterscotch 04-24-2011 11:47 AM

What do you think of this ripoff of "van Dieman's Land"?
 
YouTube - The Water is Wide- Robin Spielberg's American Tapestry

I heard this from the other room (instrumental) and I swear it was Van Dieman's Land. It was so close I had to go and look. Not the whole song, but the basic part and melody. Don't you think so?

coolian2 04-24-2011 11:54 AM

sounds like a traditional arrangement to me...

Ronnie269 04-24-2011 12:11 PM

The Water is Wide is a traditional Scottish song dating back to the 1600's, and is indeed what The Edge ripped off to get the melody and chord structure for Van Dieman's Land,

Neil Young also borrowed the melody for his song Mother Earth (Natural Anthem)

Tradition songs have always been borrowed or stolen from by contemporary artists, Bob Dylan covers The Water is Wide in his 1976 film Renaldo and Clara, He is no stranger to using melody's from old traditional songs, but is always open about it, unlike U2 who as far as I know never mentioned Van Dieman's Land as been a copy of The Water is Wide.

coolian2 04-24-2011 12:14 PM

shit, at least they admitted white as snow was practically traditional.

Registered Dude 04-24-2011 12:16 PM

I'm pretty sure I've read a R&H era interview where Edge mentions using a traditional melody for the song

Headache in a Suitcase 04-24-2011 01:52 PM

The irony of the original post is fantastic

bono_212 04-24-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase (Post 7188392)
The irony of the original post is fantastic

For realz.

Galeongirl 04-24-2011 02:58 PM

Why are so little people capable of spelling the song properly?

It's Van DiemEns Land... :crack:

theedgeu2 04-24-2011 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase (Post 7188392)
The irony of the original post is fantastic

:lol: Definitely.

Ronnie269 04-24-2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galeongirl (Post 7188416)
Why are so little people capable of spelling the song properly?

It's Van DiemEns Land... :crack:


I had it spelled Van Diemen's Land originally, but I doubted myself and copied the spelling from the original post, hahahaha, no joke, :doh:

While were on proper writing and punctuation, you should add an apostrophe to Diemen's, Van Diemen's Land, :wink:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Registered Dude (Post 7188362)
I'm pretty sure I've read a R&H era interview where Edge mentions using a traditional melody for the song

Edge probably did mention it at some stage, frankly it's not really a big deal, They are two great songs, I know on the inlay card for Rattle and Hum it's credited as.....

Lyrics: The Edge
Music: U2

Galeongirl 04-24-2011 05:17 PM

Depends on where you're from. For me it's Van Diemens Land. For you English people, it's Van Diemen's Land.

martha 04-24-2011 05:22 PM

I remember reading somewhere that when Dylan met U2 sometime in the 80s, he amazed and embarrassed them with his extensive knowledge of Irish folk music.

That may have nothing to do with anything here, but this thread reminded me of that story.

Butterscotch 04-24-2011 07:23 PM

Sorry I didn't know that, I had assumed the woman had just written it and was claiming it as original. At least I was right, it was the same tune. As for U2, "every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief.."

Ronnie269 04-24-2011 11:07 PM


Quote:

Originally Posted by martha (Post 7188498)
I remember reading somewhere that when Dylan met U2 sometime in the 80s, he amazed and embarrassed them with his extensive knowledge of Irish folk music.

That may have nothing to do with anything here, but this thread reminded me of that story.

Yeah, I've heard this too, here is a good interview, to back it up, it's from Slane 1984, Bono interviewing Van Morrison and Dylan, Bono seems impressed here by Dylan's knowledge of Traditional Irish music, Bono also seems a little out of his dept here meeting two of his hero's and even interviewing them, I don't know about everyone else here but it seems to mean Bono is bluffing alot, especially about reading On The Road, Great interview tho, Bono's duet with Dylan on Blowin' In The wind, later in the day, need not be mentioned!

At U2's last set of gigs in Croke Park in 2009, The band played The Auld Triangle and dedicated it to the late Ronnie Drew, saying during the introduction that Bob Dylan knows more verses to this song than any Irish man I've ever met.







Take Me Back

Bono Interviews Dylan & Van (1984)

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...ison-Pic-1.jpg From Hot Press:
Conducted at the Slane Castle, Dublin, Ireland prior to Dylan's show (JULY 8, 1984). Both Bono and Van Morrison were later guests at the show, Van Morrison doing his usual It's All Over Now, Baby Blue and Bono joining Dylan on Blowin' In The Wind.

Bono: Van, what do you think of electronic music?


Morrison: I like the music Brian Eno plays.


Bono: He speaks very highly of you. He's producing our record right now.


Morrison: Say hello.


Bono: When you're working with a producer, do you give him the lee-way to challenge you?


Dylan: Yeah, if he feels like it. But usually we just go into the studio and sing a song, and play the music, and have, you know ...


Bono: Have you had somebody in the last five years who said "That's crap, Bob"?


Dylan: Oh, they say that all the time!


Bono: Mark Knopfler, did he say that?


Dylan: I don't know, they spend time getting their various songs right, but with me, I just take a song into the studio and try to rehearse it, and then record it, and then do it. It's a little harder now though to make a good record - even if you've got a good song and a good band. Even if you go in and record it live, it's not gonna sound like it used to sound, because the studios now are so modern, and overly developed, that you can take anything good and you can press it and squeeze it and squash it, and constipate it and suffocate it. You do a great performance in the studio and you listen back to it because the speakers are all so good, but, ah, no!


Bono: All technology does is - you go into a dead room with dead instruments and you use technology to give it life that it doesn't have, and then it comes out of the speakers and you believe it. What I've been trying to do is find a room that has life in itself.


Dylan: Yeah.


Bono: A 'living' room.


Dylan: The machines though, can even take the life out of that room, I've found. You can record in St Peter's Cathedral, you know, and they still make it sound like, eh, ...


Bono: Somebody's backyard.


Dylan: Yeah.


Dylan: That's a good idea. I'd love to record in a cathedral.


Dylan: You know the studios in the old days were all much better, and the equipment so much better, there's no question about it in my mind. You just walked into a studio, they were just big rooms, you just sang, you know, you just made records; and they sounded like the way they sounded there. That stopped happening in the late Sixties, for me anyway. I noticed the big change. You go into a studio now and they got rugs on the floor, settees and pinball machines and videos and sandwiches coming every ten minutes. It's a big expensive party and you're lucky if you come out with anything that sounds decent.


Bono: Yeah, records haven't got better, have they?


Dylan: No, you go in now, you got your producer, you got your engineer, you got your assistant engineer, usually your assistant producer, you got a guy carrying the tapes around. I mean, you know, there's a million people go into recording just an acoustic song on your guitar. The boys turn the machines on and it's a great undertaking.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...0/vanbob91.JPG Bono: There's a system called Effanel which Mick Fleetwood from Fleetwood Mac brought to Africa. It was built for him because he wanted to get some real African drummin', for "Tusk". We've used that system. It comes in a light suitcase, very small, no bullshit studio, and it just arrives, you can literally bring it to your living room.


Morrison: I think all the same they'll go back to 2-track eventually.


Bono: There's a guy called Conny Plank, who lives in Germany. He's a producer I think. He produced Makem and Clancy and some Irish traditional bands, also orchestral and funnily enough a lot of the new electronic groups, DAF, Ultravox, and so on. He used to record orchestras by just finding a position in the room where they were already balanced and he applies this in his thinking, in recording modern music: he finds a place in the room where it's already mixed.


Morrison: I don't know, when I started we didn't think about that! You didn't even think about recording ... (laughs)


Bono: You didn't even think!

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...0/them1964.jpg Morrison: You didn't even know what was on the cards. One day you were in the room, they turned the tape on. After about eight hours or so, they'd say, 'OK, tea break, it's over'.


Dylan: Yeah, next song, next song!


Morrison: And that was that - it was an album.


Dylan: Yeah, you'd make an album on three days or four days and it was over - if that many! It's that long now ... it takes four days to get a drum sound.


Bono: Do you know the Monty Python team, they're comedians, British comedians, 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'. They have a sketch that reminds me of you guys - sitting back talking of days gone by: "You tell that to the young people of today and they'd never believe you". But you can't go backwards, you must go forward. You try to bring the values that were back there, you know, the strength, and if you see something that was lost, you got to find a new way to capture that same strength. Have you any idea of how to do that? I think you've done it by the way ... I think 'Shot Of Love', that opening track has that.


Dylan: I think so too, You're one of the few people to say that to me about that record, to mention that record to me.


Bono: That has *that* feeling.


Dylan: It's a great record, it suits just about everybody.


Bono: The sound from that record makes me feel like I'm in the same room as the other musicians. I don't feel like they're over *there*. Some of our records, I feel like they're over there because we got into this cinema type sound, not bland like FM sound, but we got into this very broad sound. Now we're trying to focus more of a punch, and that's what we are after, this intimacy .... I've never interviewed anybody before, by the way. I hate being interviewed myself.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...rrisonYESC.jpg Morrison: You're doing a good job!


Bono: Is this OK?. Good! What records do you listen to?


Dylan: What records do I listen to? New records? I don't know, just the old records really. Robert Johnson. I still listen to those records that I listened to when I was growing up - they really changed my life. They still change my life. They still hold up, you know. The Louvain Brothers, Hank Williams, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Charlie Patton, I always liked to listen to him.


Bono: I just bought Woody Guthrie's 'Bound For Glory'. I'm just a beginner when it comes to America. I mean, it's changed me. When you go the US, coming from this country, it's more than a different continent ....


Morrison: It's shell shock.


Bono: Yeah, coming from troubled Ireland, it's the real shell shock! I'm just getting acquainted with American music and literature. Do you still see Allen Ginsberg?


Dylan: I run across Allen from time to time, yeah, Gregory Corsos's back now, he's doing some readings, I think he's just published a new book.


Bono: I've just been reading this book 'Howl'.


Dylan: Oh, that's very powerful. That's another book that changed me. 'Howl', 'On the Road', 'Dharma Bums'.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...ovangeldof.jpg Morrison: (to Bono) Have you read 'On the Road'?


Bono: Yes I have, I'm just starting that. You have a reference in one of your songs to John Donne, 'Rave On John Donne'. Have you read his poetry?


Morrison: I was reading it at the time.


Dylan: (to Bono) You heard the songs - Brendan Behan's songs?


Bono: Yeah.


Dylan: 'Royal Canal', you know the 'Royal Canal'?


Morrison: His brother wrote it. His name is Dominic.


Dylan: Oh, Dominic wrote 'Royal Canal'?


Bono: You know Brendan's son hang out around here in Dublin. He's a good guy, I believe.


Dylan: I know the solo lyrics to the 'Royal Canal'. I used to sing it all the time.


Bono: How does it go?


Dylan: (sings) 'The hungry feeling came over me stealing, as the mice were squalling in my prison cell'.


Bono: That's right, yeah!


Dylan: (continues) 'That old triangle went jingle jangle, all along the banks of the Royal Canal'.


Bono: That's right, when did you read that?


Dylan: (there's no way stopping him now) 'In the female prison there's seventy women. It's all over there that I want to dwell. And that old triangle goes jingle jangle, all along the banks of the Royal Canal'.


Bono: Have you been to the Royal Canal?


Dylan: No I used to sing that song though. Every night.


Bono: Our music - as I was saying earlier - it doesn't have those roots.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EYG6XWIRuA...0/scan0025.jpg Morrison: Yeah, there was a break in the lineage. I sussed that out when I went to see Thin Lizzy years ago, the first night in L.A. and I was watching at the back of the stage and I realized that the music was a complete cut in the connection between the end of the Sixties and the middle of the Seventies - a severing of the traditional lineage of groups.


Bono: I like to know more about roots music. I'm hungry for a past.


Morrison: You know you should listen to some of that stuff.


Bono: I will. I've been listening to some gospel music, you know, like the Swan Silvertones, and stuff like that.


Dylan: That's US stuff though.


Morrison: US stuff, but the British stuff you should listen to, you know, like some of the old stuff, like the Yardbirds.


Bono: Yeah, I've got some of their tapes recently, some real good tapes.


Dylan: You can still hear the McPeakes. The next generation may not be able to though. Who knows? I would hate to think that. Listen we're gonna have to get ready to play. Are you gonna stay for the show?


Bono: Certainly, that's what I'm here for actually.


Dylan: To record it, HA!

EdgeFest 04-25-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galeongirl (Post 7188416)
Why are so little people capable of spelling the song properly?

It's Van DiemEns Land... :crack:

THIS THIS THIS THIS THISSSSSSSSSSSSS!
:applaud:

Canadiens1131 04-25-2011 05:51 PM

Oh no shit similar chord progressions someone MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT :drool:

The Sad Punk 04-26-2011 10:54 AM

13 star thread.

Ronnie269 05-05-2011 01:50 PM

Its an old statement but I really do hate it when people insist on saying something when they really have nothing good or worthwhile to say!

Butterscotch made this thread thinking that Robin Spielberg ripped off Van Diemen's Land, I'm sure Butterscotch was interested to learn how U2 had previously borrowed the tune from a very old traditional Scottish song, The Water is Wide,

So there is absolutely no need for people to jump all over Butterscotch's thread with immature comments, If you don't like the thread you don't have to be in here!!!, The great thing about this online community is fans can discuss whatever they please with other fans.

gman 05-06-2011 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie269 (Post 7196849)
Its an old statement but I really do hate it when people insist on saying something when they really have nothing good or worthwhile to say!

Butterscotch made this thread thinking that Robin Spielberg ripped off Van Diemen's Land, I'm sure Butterscotch was interested to learn how U2 had previously borrowed the tune from a very old traditional Scottish song, The Water is Wide,

So there is absolutely no need for people to jump all over Butterscotch's thread with immature comments, If you don't like the thread you don't have to be in here!!!, The great thing about this online community is fans can discuss whatever they please with other fans.

Well sed Ronnie :applaud: Some peeps just love rabble rousing for the hell of it

bono_212 05-06-2011 12:13 PM

Sorry, I just can't help but rabble-rouse when U2 plagiating comes up.


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