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-   -   the conservative case for same sex marriage (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/the-conservative-case-for-same-sex-marriage-204380.html)

Pearl 04-17-2010 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliEnvy (Post 6729591)
I thought the overall non-reaction to Ricky's announcement was a very, very hopeful sign that soon it will be non-news in general to come out. Still a ways to go, but still.

It also could be that it was obvious he was gay and for him coming out was like saying the grass is green or something like that.

MrsSpringsteen 04-20-2010 12:36 PM

By JAMIE STENGLE, Associated Press Writer – Tue Apr 20, 9:14 am ET

DALLAS – After the joy of a wedding and the adoption of a baby came arguments that couldn't be resolved, leading Angelique Naylor to file for divorce. That left her fighting both the woman she married in Massachusetts and the state of Texas, which says a union granted in a state where same-sex marriage is legal can't be dissolved with a divorce in a state where it's not.

A judge in Austin granted the divorce, but Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is appealing the decision. He also is appealing a divorce granted to a gay couple in Dallas, saying protecting the "traditional definition of marriage" means doing the same for divorce.

A state appeals court is scheduled to hear arguments in the Dallas case on Wednesday.

The Dallas men, who declined to be interviewed for this story and are known only as J.B. and H.B. in court filings, had an amicable separation, with no disputes on separation of property and no children involved, said attorney Peter Schulte, who represents J.B. The couple, who married in 2006 in Massachusetts and separated two years later, simply want an official divorce, Schulte said.

The drawn-out process has been frustrating for Naylor, who says she didn't file for divorce as an equal rights statement — she just wants to get on with her life.

"We didn't ask for a marriage; we simply asked for the courtesy of divorce," said Naylor, 39, of Austin, who married Sabina Daly in Massachusetts in 2004.

That year, Massachusetts became the first state to let same-sex couples tie the knot. Now, Connecticut, Iowa, New Hampshire, Vermont and the District of Columbia also allow them.

Gay and lesbian couples who turn to the courts when they break up are getting mixed results across the nation. A Pennsylvania judge last month refused to divorce two women who married in Massachusetts, while New York grants such divorces even though the state doesn't allow same-sex marriage.

"The bottom line is that same-sex couples have families and their families have the same needs and problems, but often don't have the same rights," said Jennifer Pizer, a lawyer for Lambda Legal, a national legal organization that promotes equal rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

"It really is an unenviable position that the courts have put these couples in," said Karen Loewy, an attorney at the Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders.

Abbott, a Republican seeking re-election, declined to be interviewed for this story. He has argued in court filings that because the state doesn't recognize gay marriage there can be no divorce, but a gay or lesbian Texas couple may have a marriage voided. Attorneys representing such couples argue that voiding a marriage here could leave it intact in other states, creating problems for property divisions and other issues.

"OK, you're recommending voidance, but how does that work?" asked Jennifer Cochran, Naylor's attorney. "Is it only void in Texas and can you void a marriage that's valid in another state? The attorney general I feel didn't answer those questions."

In 2005, Texas voters passed a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage by a 3-to-1 margin even though state law already prohibited it. Abbott has said he is appealing the Dallas divorce ruling for two men to "defend the traditional definition of marriage that was approved by Texas voters."

Abbott disagrees with the judge in that case, who ruled in October that the same-sex marriage ban violates equal rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

Kelly Shackelford, chief counsel for the conservative Liberty Institute in Plano, called that decision "outrageous judicial activism." The institute has filed a friend of the court brief to the appeals court on behalf of the two Republican state lawmakers who co-sponsored the amendment banning gay marriage: state Rep. Warren Chisum and former state Sen. Todd Staples.

"It's a backdoor run at establishing same-sex so-called marriage against the people's vote," Shackelford said. "Once you grant the divorce, you are recognizing that there was a marriage."

Dallas divorce attorney Tom Greenwald said he's advising gay couples to wait and see how things play out in the courts.

"Getting the court of appeals to even accept the issue is a step in the right direction in getting some clarity on this," he said. "We just don't know how to treat it."

As for Naylor and Daly — the latter declined to comment — they've been trying to figure out what to do since separating in 2007 amid escalating arguments.

The couple, who had real estate-related businesses and renovated homes, toyed with the idea of one of them moving to a state where gay marriage is legal until a divorce is finalized, but that didn't seem practical.

Naylor said that eventually, she and Daly worked out a custody arrangement for their now 4 1/2-year-old son. Naylor said that when she heard about the Dallas divorce, she thought it was worth a try and filed for her own, even though several attorneys she spoke with weren't so sure.

"They said it's too up in the air, wait and see for appeals," Naylor said. "I didn't have a lot of time to wait and see."

PhilsFan 04-20-2010 03:28 PM

PROTECT DlVORCE!

Moonlit_Angel 04-20-2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

"Once you grant the divorce, you are recognizing that there was a marriage."
...no duh, Shackelford. It's not their fault your state isn't as progressive as Massachusetts. You're the ones forcing them into a difficult situation, not the other way around.

This is precisely why the issue of gay marriage can't be a state-by-state deal, why it should be legalized nationwide. State-by-state laws on stuff like this just makes things way too complicated for people.

(Well, that and the fact that civil rights are something that should be distributed across the board, not just here and there)

On a related note, it really fills me with pride every time I see mention of Iowa being among the states that allows gay marriage. Yay, Iowa!

Angela

kramwest1 04-21-2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel (Post 6737880)
On a related note, it really fills me with pride every time I see mention of Iowa being among the states that allows gay marriage. Yay, Iowa!

Angela

I agree. F the coasts for thinking they are so progressive.

Yay Iowa! (my wife's family is from IA)

Moonlit_Angel 04-21-2010 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramwest1 (Post 6738234)
I agree. F the coasts for thinking they are so progressive.

Heh, no kidding. We aren't all backwards hicks shucking corn out here :p.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramwest1 (Post 6738234)
Yay Iowa! (my wife's family is from IA)

Oh, yeah? Neat. What part?

Angela

deep 04-22-2010 01:02 AM

.

deep 04-22-2010 01:03 AM

.

deep 04-24-2010 07:34 PM

Archie Comics announces new gay character - CNN.com

so, this is ---

good?

BVS 04-24-2010 07:38 PM

I'm just suprised anyone is still reading Archie comics...:scratch:

Irvine511 04-25-2010 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep (Post 6741632)
good?



harmless and vanilla, and yet more proof that the world only spins forward.

kramwest1 04-27-2010 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramwest1 (Post 6738234)
I agree. F the coasts for thinking they are so progressive.

Yay Iowa! (my wife's family is from IA)

Baxter (NE of Des Moines)

deep 04-27-2010 04:29 PM

do we need a new definition for

corn husker?

kramwest1 04-27-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel (Post 6739112)
Heh, no kidding. We aren't all backwards hicks shucking corn out here :p.



Oh, yeah? Neat. What part?

Angela

I'm not sure how I managed to quote myself ^.

Baxter, IA.

deep 04-27-2010 05:39 PM

oops, I saw NE and thought Nebraska
Iowa- I got nothing :shrug:

martha 04-27-2010 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep (Post 6744194)
Iowa- I got nothing :shrug:


That's pretty much Iowa right there.













:wink:

kramwest1 04-27-2010 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep (Post 6744194)
oops, I saw NE and thought Nebraska
Iowa- I got nothing :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by martha (Post 6744291)
That's pretty much Iowa right there.


HAHA! Believe me, they agree. All of the Iowans I know don't get too excited about much of anything. Just don't called them dumb hicks; they are quite educated and worldly, even if they rarely leave the state. IMHO.

martha 04-27-2010 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramwest1 (Post 6744337)
HAHA! Believe me, they agree. All of the Iowans I know don't get too excited about much of anything. Just don't called them dumb hicks; they are quite educated and worldly, even if they rarely leave the state. IMHO.

But my God, do they need to fry everything before they serve it?

coolian2 04-27-2010 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martha (Post 6744375)
But my God, do they need to fry everything before they serve it?

they do? holy shit, i'm moving.

deep 04-28-2010 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramwest1 (Post 6738234)
I agree. F the coasts for thinking they are so progressive.

Yay Iowa! (my wife's family is from IA)

Iowa Congressional Candidate Wants Microchips In Illegal Immigrants
Quote:


I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can't I microchip an illegal?
Iowa :huh:


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