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-   -   the conservative case for same sex marriage (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/the-conservative-case-for-same-sex-marriage-204380.html)

BVS 02-23-2010 06:04 PM

You and a lot of 5th graders...

PhilsFan 02-23-2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 6673969)
https://logo.cafepress.com/1/1432683.1948841.jpg

For some reason this makes me laugh.

Sort of like the old "You wanna hear a joke ... women's rights!" crack?

Irvine511 02-23-2010 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 6673969)
https://logo.cafepress.com/1/1432683.1948841.jpg

For some reason this makes me laugh.



you realize that the pink is a direct reference to this:

https://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/PinkTriangle.jpg

which is referencing this:

https://cghs.dadeschools.net/holocaust/pink_triangle.jpg

you can learn more about it here:

Pink triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MrsSpringsteen 02-24-2010 01:06 PM

Not exactly funny

INDY500 02-24-2010 09:37 PM

Pretty damn funny In Top Secret.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_I2uQkGxIyk...ecret03ij3.jpg

Irvine511 03-03-2010 10:33 AM

Quote:

Same-sex marriage becomes legal in DC; line forms

By JESSICA GRESKO (AP) – 3 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Same-sex couples can start applying for marriage licenses Wednesday in Washington.

Supporters say couples planned to line up before the city's marriage bureau opened at 8:30 a.m., and officials at the courthouse were expecting 200 or more people.

At least 16 couples were waiting at 7:15 a.m. inside the city's Moultrie courthouse, which houses the marriage bureau and is just blocks from the U.S. Capitol.

Sinjoyla Townsend, 41, and her partner of 12 years, Angelisa Young, 47, claimed the first spot in line just after 6 a.m.

"It's like waking up Christmas morning," Young said.

Washington will be the sixth place in the nation where gay marriages can take place. Because of a mandatory waiting period, however, couples won't actually be able to marry in the District of Columbia until March 9. Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont currently issue licenses to same-sex couples.

To deal with the expected crowd Wednesday, the marriage bureau will bring in temporary employees to help its regular staff, courthouse spokeswoman Leah Gurowitz said.

"Everybody who wants a marriage license is going to get one. It may take a little longer, but they will get their license," Gurowitz said.

To prepare, the marriage bureau has changed its license applications so they are gender-neutral, asking for the name of each "spouse" rather than the "bride" and "groom." And at civil marriage ceremonies to be performed in the courthouse, a booklet for the official performing the marriage now reads, "I now pronounce you legally married" instead of "I now pronounce you man and wife."

A marriage license application costs $35, and the marriage license $10. Couples who are already registered as domestic partners in the city can convert their registration into a marriage license by paying the $10 fee.

Supporters expected the day to be festive. A District of Columbia councilman who introduced the gay marriage bill planned to hand out boxes of vanilla and chocolate cupcakes to the first 200 couples in line.

Terrance Heath, 41, planned to be at the courthouse with his partner, Rick Imirowicz, 43. The two have been together for 10 years and have a 7-year-old and a 2-year-old, but Heath said Wednesday feels like "a step forward."

"My husband has always been my husband to me, but having that legal recognition, that legal protection, makes it easier to deal with any number of situations," said Heath, a writer and blogger. "If you tell people you're married, you don't really have to explain much beyond that."

The two, who live in Maryland, plan to marry on March 9, the first day possible.

The gay marriage law was introduced in the 13-member D.C. Council in October and had near-unanimous support from the beginning. The bill passed and D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty signed it in December, but because Washington is a federal district, the law had to undergo a congressional review period that expired Tuesday.

Opponents, however, are still attempting to overturn the bill in court.

:)

Vincent Vega 03-06-2010 09:33 AM

Hypocrisy Alert: Calif. Politician Roy Ashburn Arrested for Allegedly Driving Drunk; It Gets Worse - Crimesider - CBS News

Quote:

Sacramento, Calif. (CBS/CBS13) BAD: CBS affiliate CBS13 reports that Roy Ashburn, a state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk.

WORSE: CBS affiliate CBS13 reports that Roy Ashburn, a state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk AFTER LEAVING A GAY BAR.

WORSER: CBS affiliate CBS13 reports that Roy Ashburn, a state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk after leaving a gay bar WITH ANOTHER MAN IN THE CAR.

WORST: CBS affiliate CBS13 reports that Roy Ashburn, a REPUBLICAN state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk after leaving a gay bar with another man in the car.

WORSTEST: CBS affiliate CBS13 reports that Roy Ashburn, a Republican state senator from Southern California WITH A HISTORY OF OPPOSING GAY RIGHTS was arrested for allegedly driving drunk after leaving a gay bar with another man in the car.
It's getting kinda old with them.

The_Pac_Mule 03-06-2010 06:02 PM

Heres what I think:
Marriage is a religious ceremony. Freedom of religion dictates that religious institutuons can do whatever they want, for the most part. Government can't say that religions can't do this or have to do that. I believe marriage should be taken out of laws and the governments hands. Instead of marriage, something similar to civil unions should be enacted that gives couples the same benefits of todays marriages. This would include same-sex couples. Then if they want, the unionized couple can go get married wherever it is they worship. I think this would allow a lot more people (including me) to reconcile with their religious beliefs while giving everyone the same rights. :up:

Diemen 03-06-2010 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule (Post 6686043)
Heres what I think:
Marriage is a religious ceremony.

Yes, that is one of the many things that marriage is. It is not, however, the only thing, and, in a non-theocratic society such as ours, isn't the most important.

The_Pac_Mule 03-06-2010 08:56 PM

Quote:

Yes, that is one of the many things that marriage is. It is not, however, the only thing, and, in a non-theocratic society such as ours, isn't the most important.
Did you like my idea though?

BVS 03-06-2010 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule (Post 6686043)
Heres what I think:
Marriage is a religious ceremony. Freedom of religion dictates that religious institutuons can do whatever they want, for the most part. Government can't say that religions can't do this or have to do that. I believe marriage should be taken out of laws and the governments hands. Instead of marriage, something similar to civil unions should be enacted that gives couples the same benefits of todays marriages. This would include same-sex couples. Then if they want, the unionized couple can go get married wherever it is they worship. I think this would allow a lot more people (including me) to reconcile with their religious beliefs while giving everyone the same rights. :up:

And this is pretty much what most of us have advocating. No one is saying they want to force churches to do anything. Marriage is NOT only a religious ceremony. Whatever it is that government recognizes should be equal for ALL consenting adults. What churches decide to do that's up to them. If they want to perform marriages for gay couples, great, if they don't then fine.

PhilsFan 03-06-2010 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule (Post 6686043)
Heres what I think:
Marriage is a religious ceremony. Freedom of religion dictates that religious institutuons can do whatever they want, for the most part. Government can't say that religions can't do this or have to do that. I believe marriage should be taken out of laws and the governments hands. Instead of marriage, something similar to civil unions should be enacted that gives couples the same benefits of todays marriages. This would include same-sex couples. Then if they want, the unionized couple can go get married wherever it is they worship. I think this would allow a lot more people (including me) to reconcile with their religious beliefs while giving everyone the same rights. :up:

If you're that comfortable with changing the word marriage around like that, what's wrong with allowing gay couples to get government recognized marriage?

INDY500 03-06-2010 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diemen (Post 6686091)
Yes, that is one of the many things that marriage is. It is not, however, the only thing, and, in a non-theocratic society such as ours, isn't the most important.

Non-theocratic, but not secular, so it should come as no surprise that many Americans mold their civics based, in various degrees, upon their religion and faith. And there is nothing theocratic about those religious beliefs shaping our laws when done through constitutional and democratic channels.

PhilsFan 03-06-2010 10:51 PM

Bullshit that there's nothing theocratic about it. The channel doesn't matter; it's not meant to be used to impose your religious views on others.

Bluer White 03-06-2010 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diemen (Post 6686091)
Yes, that is one of the many things that marriage is. It is not, however, the only thing, and, in a non-theocratic society such as ours, isn't the most important.

Pac Mule wants to separate marriage from government. That's what I got from his post.

BVS 03-06-2010 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluer White (Post 6686226)
Pac Mule wants to separate marriage from government. That's what I got from his post.

But what he doesn't understand or explain is how? When all those straight white conservatives get married in a church do they also have to get unioned by the government? Also what if the church does want to marry gay couples, what happens then?

PhilsFan 03-06-2010 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluer White (Post 6686226)
Pac Mule wants to separate marriage from government. That's what I got from his post.

Which is a cop out logically because we all know that's completely unrealistic.

INDY500 03-06-2010 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 6686225)
Bullshit that there's nothing theocratic about it. The channel doesn't matter; it's not meant to be used to impose your religious views on others.

Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which theology is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?

Irvine511 03-07-2010 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 6686267)
Given that all three of the major religions share negative views of homosexuality, exactly which religion is being imposed? Catholicism? Presbyterianism? Judaism? Mormonism? You can't have a pluralistic theocracy Philly.

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?



secularism is the only thing that allows you to practice your religion as you see fit. it's that value that, yes, absolutely and in all cases trumps yours, because you only get freedom of, and from, religion through secularism.

also, i know many christians, jews, and muslims who would argue with you about what their faith actually thinks about homosexuality, and they'd present quite convincing arguments that whatever anti-gay rhetoric is employed by those institutions has much more to do with humans and their own personal failings rather than those of the divine.

do you, INDY, *actually* think that God doesn't like gay people?

and, moreover, you realize that it is only our secular constitution that allows you to think whatever you want about that question?

BVS 03-07-2010 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 6686267)

But it's ok to "impose" secular values on people of faith right?

I know you won't answer me but I'll ask anyways...

How and where is a "secular value" imposed on people of faith?

So when I believe that all consenting adults are created equal, how does that effect your faith?


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