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-   -   the conservative case for same sex marriage (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/the-conservative-case-for-same-sex-marriage-204380.html)

PhilsFan 01-20-2010 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 6626257)
you can't govern against the will of the people either.

Unless, you know, George Bush wants to stay in Iraq.

Irvine511 01-21-2010 12:55 AM

why, look:

Cindy McCain Poses for NOH8 | News | Advocate.com

props to cindy mccain.

coolian2 01-21-2010 12:57 AM


Originally Posted by Irvine511 (Post 6626665)
why, look:

Cindy McCain Poses for NOH8 | News | Advocate.com

props to cindy mccain.

i guess now that he's no longer desperately running for president and ruled by the retarded right he can allow more common sense around him.

(nb: i'm aware we're talking cindy rather than john, but come on)

deep 01-21-2010 02:14 AM


Originally Posted by Irvine511 (Post 6626665)
why, look:

Cindy McCain Poses for NOH8 | News | Advocate.com

props to cindy mccain.


I agree

and there is this man


GOP Mayor Sanders and gay daughter Lisa talk to reporters after mayor's Prop 8 trial appearance | San Diego Gay & Lesbian News

Irvine511 01-21-2010 09:50 AM

woops, sorry i missed Mrs. S's earlier post on the McCain women and repeated the same link. :)

deep 01-22-2010 01:13 AM

Prop 8 supporters please read

does this make you, perhaps reconsider your position?


Official Prop. 8 proponent claims same-sex marriage can harm children

William Tam testifies at the federal trial that he told voters in the 2008 campaign that a gay agenda includes legalizing sex with children.

By Maura Dolan
6:52 PM PST, January 21, 2010
Reporting from San Francisco

An official proponent of Proposition 8 testified at a federal trial Thursday that he was involved in disseminating claims that same-sex marriage could cause children to become gay and spark legalization of sex with children, incest and polygamy.

William Tam, one of five official proponents for the 2008 ballot initiative, also testified about his personal views toward same-sex marriage.

"It is very important that our children won't grow up to fantasize or think about, 'Should I marry Jane or John?' " testified Tam, a chemical engineer and evangelical Christian who lives in San Francisco.

As an official proponent, Tam was one of those who formally asked the state to pave the way for the measure's signature gathering. He also intervened in the federal challenge against Proposition 8 to defend the measure.

Just before trial started last week, Tam asked to be removed as a defendant, saying he feared for his and his family's safety. A ruling on his petition is pending.

Tam was asked Thursday about statements that the gay agenda includes legalizing sex with children.

"And that is what you told people to try to convince them to vote yes on Proposition 8, correct?" asked David Boies, a lawyer for two same-sex couples who are trying to overturn the measure on federal constitutional grounds.

"Yes," Tam replied.

Tam said he participated in weekly campaign conference calls run by the official campaign for grass-roots organizers. He said he also played a large role in the campaign to get the measure qualified for the ballot.

Under questioning by Boies, Tam said he was secretary of an anti-gay marriage website that carried a statement that homosexuals were 12 times more likely than heterosexuals to molest children. Tam said he agreed with the statement "based on different literature I have read." He was unable to recall where he read it.

He also testified that a flier for Proposition 8 predicted dire results if gays were given civil rights.

"If sexual orientation is characterized as a civil right, so would pedophilia, polygamy and incest," read the flier.

"That is what you were telling people to convince them to vote for Proposition 8, correct?" Boies asked.

"Yes," replied Tam.

A lawyer defending Proposition 8 tried to distance Tam from the campaign, eliciting statements from him that his words were not approved by the campaign and that he had no role in devising strategy.

Boies, on redirect, noted that Tam, a Chinese American, had described himself as a minority. Boies asked if he would be aggrieved if he were forbidden to marry the person he loved. Tam said yes.

In other testimony Thursday, a Stanford political scientist said gays were politically vulnerable, particularly at the ballot box.

Gary M. Segura, a Stanford professor of American political science, testified that voters have supported 70% of ballot measures to strip gays of rights during elections in the last 15 years.

He said there was no other group that has been so targeted by voters.

Segura also testified that FBI statistics showed hate crimes against gays and lesbians have held steady during the last five years and even rose in 2008. He cited opinion surveys that he said show that many people hold gays in low regard.

"Gays and lesbians lack the power necessary to protect themselves in the political system," Segura concluded.

In a lengthy cross-examination, a lawyer for Proposition 8 emphasized the gains gays have made, their support by Hollywood and the value of their endorsements in political races.

MrsSpringsteen 02-03-2010 09:11 AM

Just thought this was interesting, from a professional athlete and I was impressed

Solid backing by Saint

Fujita unafraid to support gay rights

By Adam Kilgore, Boston Globe Staff | February 3, 2010

MIAMI GARDENS, Fla. - When the request arrived in an e-mail last fall, Scott Fujita replied immediately and without reservation. A friend had asked him his opinion. He answered. That was how Fujita looked at it.

The swiftness and certitude of Fujita’s reply stunned Dave Zirin, the friend who sent the e-mail. Zirin had not made a typical request, not for an NFL linebacker. He was looking for a professional athlete to lend his name to the National Equality March, a rally in Washington for gay rights.

On Sunday, Fujita will reach the pinnacle of his football career, playing linebacker for the New Orleans Saints in the Super Bowl. Fujita describes it as “this small moment in time where you have a platform to do some good things.’’ Last fall, that included speaking out in support of gay rights, a rare step in a professional sporting culture that often turns social stances into landmines.

Fujita, who is married, the father of twin daughters, and straight, pushes against the rising trend in sports to remain mum on cultural and political touchstones. His boldness, shaped by his unusual upbringing, makes him an uncommon and effective advocate for what he believes in.

“People asked me a question and I gave my opinion,’’ Fujita said. “People say, ‘That’s so courageous of you.’ To me, it’s not that courageous to have an opinion, especially if you wholeheartedly think it’s the right thing. For me, standing up for equal rights is the right thing to do.’’

Fujita’s show of support for gay rights began in the fall with Zirin, a Sirius radio show host, sports correspondent for The Nation magazine, and author of edgeofsports.com, a website dedicated to the intersection of sports and politics.

Before reaching out to Fujita, Zirin had e-mailed several dozen professional athletes asking them to endorse the march. Each one, even players Zirin knew supported it, declined to publicly stand behind it. “They didn’t want to go near this,’’ Zirin said. “It was too third-rail.’’

In his support of gay rights, Zirin wanted to tap into the sports world, which he said is often regarded as “the last hamlet of homophobia.’’

Zirin believed that dissolving that stereotype could empower the campaign.

Zirin had befriended Fujita while working with him on a column, and Fujita struck him as a man unafraid to speak his mind. He hoped Fujita would help but assumed he at least would waffle. But there was the e-mailed response: “Absolutely.’’

Now Zirin worried. Didn’t Fujita want to at least discuss the implications of an endorsement? Fujita told Zirin they could talk if he wanted, but nothing would change his mind.

“The only pressure that Scott feels,’’ Zirin said, “is the pressure to be true to his conscience.’’

Fujita was adopted by a third-generation Japanese-American man named Rodney and a Caucasian woman named Helen. He feels he owes his life to them. In some states, there have been laws proposed that would allow only married couples to adopt. This deeply bothered Fujita; he interpreted the proposals as an attempt to block foster children from being adopted into loving homes.

“To me, the right to marry is a right that all men should have,’’ Fujita said. “To me, it’s more a human issue than just a gay/straight/political issue.’’

On Oct. 6, Fujita outlined his position in an interview by Zirin posted on the Huffington Post. The piece pinballed around the Internet days before an estimated 200,000 people attended the National Equality March.

Zirin believed Fujita’s public stance - along with a column posted in April on the Huffington Post by Ravens linebacker Brandon Ayanbadejo championing gay marriage - reached a swath of Americans who otherwise may have been unmoved.

“It’s important any time we have the ability to break free from stereotypes,’’ Zirin said. “You have to get your head around the idea that Scott is a bad-ass linebacker for the New Orleans Saints and that he speaks his mind in support of gay rights.’’

Football locker rooms are not generally considered hotbeds of progressive thought. But Fujita said players are “more tolerant than they get credit for. It’s not a big issue.’’

The absence of conflict owes partly to Fujita’s personality. He is one of the most respected leaders and well-liked people on the Saints.

“He’s flexible enough and he’s a good guy,’’ linebacker Scott Shanle said. “We all like when he brings out his opinions. Debates get started. You end up with two or three people in an argument, then you’ve got 10 to 20 people that are in an argument. It’s good just to get everyone together.’’

In 2006, Fujita left the Dallas Cowboys to play for the Saints. People asked him why. The Cowboys were a marquee NFL franchise. Devastation had engulfed New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Fujita chose New Orleans because he told himself, “This could be bigger than football.’’ Fujita wanted to help the ravaged city. He devotes time to adoption, breast cancer awareness (his mother is a two-time survivor), wetlands restoration, and other causes. This season, the Saints nominated him as their Walter Payton Man of the Year.

In 2007, Fujita started working with Covenant House, a shelter for homeless children aged 16 to 21 that also provides health clinics and various other services. Once every couple weeks, he drops off clothes and toys his 2-year-old daughters have outgrown. He visits with children and signs autographs in the cafeteria. Several of those kids have been failed by the foster care system.

“That is partly why Scott has taken us under his wing,’’ said Renee Blance, director of development at Covenant House. “I think he knows he could have been in their position if he had not been adopted by such a great family.’’

Fujita was born in 1979 to a teenaged mother who decided she did not have the means or the will to raise a son. She put him up for adoption, and Rodney and Helen Fujita adopted him when he was 6 months old. They ate rice with chopsticks and celebrated Japanese holidays. Fujita, who is white, embraced Japanese culture. From childhood, he considered himself Japanese.

“I have no Japanese blood in my body,’’ he said. “I have a Japanese heart.’’

In 1943, Nagao Fujita was fighting in Italy with the 442d Regimental Combat Team while his wife Lillie was living in an internment camp. While Nagao fought in World War II, Lillie gave birth to Rodney Fujita in the Arizona desert.

As he grew older, Scott Fujita asked his grandmother about her experience. Nagao died long ago, but Lillie is still alive, and Scott still speaks with her.

“I didn’t hear any sense of resentment at all in her voice,’’ Fujita said. “I never have. To be able to not just deal with it, but to become better from it, I always say, ‘What do I have to complain about?’ ’’

Fujita received a degree at Cal-Berkeley in political science and later earned a master’s in education. When he is done playing football, he plans on maintaining his platform. He wants to become a public school teacher, and he will still be a man who gives his opinion when he is asked.

“I know there’s a certain stigma that comes from being from Berkeley,’’ Fujita said. “And I’m proud of that stigma, to tell you the truth. I never claim to have all of the answers. I don’t know someone who does have all the answers. I just have opinions.’

Vincent Vega 02-07-2010 06:28 PM

Gay rights supporters can go packing:

Irvine511 02-12-2010 03:31 PM

this clip has already made it's way through the gay blogs, but it's worth posting:

YouTube - Kitty Lambert's Wedding

deep 02-18-2010 05:52 PM


Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell has reversed an executive order that protected gay state employees from discrimination, the Washington Post reported.

An executive order signed by McDonnell on February 5 includes protections for race, sex, religion and age, but not sexual orientation. It replaces orders by Virginia's last two Democratic governors which included protections for gay and lesbian workers.

McDonnell had criticized his predecessors for protecting gay workers in their similar executive orders. As attorney general, McDonnell said the inclusion exceeded the authority of the governor's office and that only the General Assembly could enact such anti-discrimination measures.

In a historic first, the Virginia Senate approved such a bill last week, but the measure faces a nearly insurmountable incline in the Republican-controlled House.

Upon taking office on January 16, McDonnell said the previous order signed by Democrat Tim Kaine remained in effect, with the exception of the portions on sexual orientation.

McDonnell spokeswoman Stacey Johnson said in a statement that the new order was necessary “to ensure compliance with state law.”

Johnson said the governor strongly opposes discrimination and pointed to a recent memo distributed to staffers that says the McDonnell administration prohibits discrimination “for any reason.”

“Hiring, promotion, discipline and termination of employees shall be based on qualifications, performance and results,” the memo says in part.
Purple State fading into Red.

PhilsFan 02-18-2010 05:55 PM

Go fuck yourself, Bob McDonnell.

nathan1977 02-18-2010 06:39 PM

Bad call, McDonnell.

Irvine511 02-18-2010 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 6668033)
Go fuck yourself, Bob McDonnell.

he's too busy talking up how great it was to get all that stimulus money he was so opposed to.

anitram 02-18-2010 08:59 PM


Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell has reversed an executive order that protected gay state employees from discrimination, the Washington Post reported.
Oh yeah, but it's about the sanctity of marriage. Not bigotry or treating gays and lesbians like second class citizens AT ALL.

Shame on anyone who votes for this man in the future.

PhilsFan 02-18-2010 10:28 PM

My marriage cannot be legitimate until I know I can openly use the word faggot at work when I get back from my honeymoon!

Irvine511 02-18-2010 10:29 PM


Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 6668368)
My marriage cannot be legitimate until I know I can openly use the word faggot at work when I get back from my honeymoon!

you deserve freedom of religion.

A_Wanderer 02-23-2010 01:09 AM

Freedom of Religion People

YouTube - For The Record: Uganda

Diemen 02-23-2010 01:52 AM

I couldn't make it past 40 seconds. That kind of idiocy makes me livid.

solemole 02-23-2010 05:20 AM

If a couple were in a UFO cult and worshipped an EBE, would their marriage still be considered legal?

If so, then marriage is a legal definition.

If not, then marriage is more/less religious definition.

INDY500 02-23-2010 05:59 PM


For some reason this makes me laugh.

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