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-   -   Sarah Palin resigns as Governor (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/sarah-palin-resigns-as-governor-198864.html)

BVS 07-11-2009 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247704)
there is a lot of hypocrisy in liberals' claims that her executive experience is valueless while forgetting Clinton's gubernatorial experience was also earned in a small state.


You try way too hard to do this and fail every time... Their experience isn't even comparable, neither are the states. :lol:

VintagePunk 07-11-2009 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247704)
there is a lot of hypocrisy in liberals' claims that her executive experience is valueless while forgetting Clinton's gubernatorial experience was also earned in a small state.

Big difference between serving 5 (2 year) terms as governor of a mainland state, and not even being able to get through one term in a fairly remote, isolated state.

financeguy 07-11-2009 07:55 PM

From the Noonan article, this is worth quoting, I agree with all of it:

Quote:

"The media did her in." Her lack of any appropriate modesty did her in. Actually, it's arguable that membership in the self-esteem generation harmed her. For 30 years the self-esteem movement told the young they're perfect in every way. It's yielding something new in history: an entire generation with no proper sense of inadequacy.

"Turning to others means the media won!" No, it means they lose. What the mainstream media wants is not to kill her but to keep her story going forever. She hurts, as they say, the Republican brand, with her mess and her rhetorical jabberwocky and her careless causing of division. Really, she is the most careless sower of discord since George W. Bush, who fractured the party and the movement that made him. Why wouldn't the media want to keep that going?

Here's why all this matters. The world is a dangerous place. It has never been more so, or more complicated, more straining of the reasoning powers of those with actual genius and true judgment. This is a time for conservative leaders who know how to think.

Here are a few examples of what we may face in the next 10 years: a profound and prolonged American crash, with the admission of bankruptcy and the spread of deep social unrest; one or more American cities getting hit with weapons of mass destruction from an unknown source; faint glimmers of actual secessionist movements as Americans for various reasons and in various areas decide the burdens and assumptions of the federal government are no longer attractive or legitimate.

The era we face, that is soon upon us, will require a great deal from our leaders. They had better be sturdy. They will have to be gifted. There will be many who cannot, and should not, make the cut. Now is the time to look for those who can. And so the Republican Party should get serious, as serious as the age, because that is what a grown-up, responsible party—a party that deserves to lead—would do.

It's not a time to be frivolous, or to feel the temptation of resentment, or the temptation of thinking next year will be more or less like last year, and the assumptions of our childhoods will more or less reign in our future. It won't be that way.

We are going to need the best.
https://online.wsj.com/article/SB124716984620819351.html

financeguy 07-11-2009 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247707)
You try way too hard to do this and fail every time... Their experience isn't even comparable, neither are the states. :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by VintagePunk (Post 6247708)
Big difference between serving 5 terms as governor of a mainland state, and not even being able to get through one term in a fairly remote, isolated state.



If you prefer, let's discuss Obama's executive experience then, or maybe that isn't convenient for you guys.:lol:

BVS 07-11-2009 07:59 PM

Quote:

This is a time for conservative leaders who know how to think.
Yes, please!!! Republicans, please give us someone who knows how to think. PLEASE!!! It's been far too long!

BVS 07-11-2009 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247711)
If you prefer, let's discuss Obama's executive experience then, or maybe that isn't convenient for you guys.:lol:

Way to divert from your mistake :up:

VintagePunk 07-11-2009 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247711)
If you prefer, let's discuss Obama's executive experience then, or maybe that isn't convenient for you guys.:lol:

There are pros and cons to gubernatorial vs senatorial experience when running for president. The latter does have more experience in Washington.

financeguy 07-11-2009 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247713)
Way to divert from your mistake :up:

I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.

VintagePunk 07-11-2009 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247717)
I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.

You were comparing the experience of someone who was a governor for 10 years to someone who quit just over halfway into her first term because she couldn't take the heat, and to pretend that that's anywhere close to an even comparison, or that it proves anything is disingenuous at best.

But moving on, so she was the only one of the four candidates with gubernatorial experience - at the time about two years - so what of it? Do you think that made her a superior or even an effective candidate by default? Would you have been comfortable having her in the second highest leadership position in your country? C'mon, be honest here.

BVS 07-11-2009 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247717)
I made no mistake. I'm happy to discuss the matter of why liberals ignore the fact that, last year, Palin was the only POTUS/VP candidate with gubernatorial experience, if you prefer. If you want to have a debate on why liberals ignore this, I'm happy not to divert you from that debate.

You did. And Vintage did a good job of showing you why.

Your memory is failing you. Republicans were blasting Obama left and right about experience, and then they brought in Palin who no one even knew and she too had very little experience and many had to shut up about the experience issue, some kept on in their hypocrisy, but most shut up about it... Any of this ring a bell?

You try soooo hard to point out hypocrisy that you end up really just shining a light on your weaknesses more often then not.

yolland 07-11-2009 08:52 PM

Quote:

"The media did her in." Her lack of any appropriate modesty did her in. Actually, it's arguable that membership in the self-esteem generation harmed her. For 30 years the self-esteem movement told the young they're perfect in every way.
Meh. I don't find anything distinctly contemporary in what she's calling Palin's "immodesty," which I'd describe more as severe difficulty tolerating criticism (expressed as excessive defensiveness and indignation) amplified by self-aggrandizing tendencies--though the latter's fairly common in politicans, always has been. She doesn't really strike me as "immodest" in the sense of cocky or arrogant, nor as fundamentally afraid to take risks and accept accountability--which if I had to identify anything as quintessential "self-esteem generation" behavior, it'd be that. (I guess in practice, overdefensiveness does amount to an accountability problem...just not the type I'm thinking of, which has more to do with an overreliance on someone always holding your hand through everything.)

Macfistowannabe 07-11-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247701)
This is the case 100% of the time though...:shrug:

Ann amuses me on occasion.

I think she discredits herself by saying a lot of idiotic things, but she's still entertaining.

Macfistowannabe 07-11-2009 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247681)
You sound bitter. Does it hurt more when the truth comes from your own side? What specifics did you have issue with?

I actually think this is a good thing. Maybe you need to hear it from your own side so that you can get a feel of why we don't like her. Some of you've been told by Rush and the like that we don't like her because we're scared she's a threat or that we're jealous, and you've bought it hook line and sinker. Well Kathleen didn't see her as a threat, nor was she jealous, she saw her for what she was bad for our country.

You're OBSESSED with Rush. Like, "I get a renob whenever he talks" obsessed.

Either that, or you've been reading Rules for Radicals religiously. :hmm:

I'll let you know that I am more of a social observer than an ideologue. I think Rush generally does a good job, but is often taken out of context by others obsessed with his influence, like Media Matters. The left will never come to understand that a great deal of his work is satire, and is based on his point that you have to demonstrate absurdity by being absurd. His love affair with himself is also satire. I used to think he was an egomaniac until I understood this to be the case. Needless to say, I don't listen to him as often as you probably suspect. People like Ron Reagan envy his popularity and influence to quite a ridiculous point.

Palin.

She is a threat to the left because she is popular among conservatives. I see the same parallels with her that I saw with Obama. The Obots cheered when Obama sneezed. The P-bots think everything she does is genius. Both of them came out of the woodwork with index card resumes. Both were propped up by powerful people. Both of them have charisma, but a short list of accomplishments.

Again, I'm a social observer. (Although I take it as a compliment when you said that every right-wing blog ought to be using my talking points)

Trust me, I've gotten in a number of heated discussions with P-bots who believe Palin can do no wrong, and insist she did awesome at the VP debate.

I think she used McCain's talking points even though she didn't necessarily agree with them ("predatory lending"... "Wall Street Greed"...etc). Fanatics on either side can't be reasoned with.

She gave Biden a good workout.

I still think she has a lot left to prove, especially given her resignation.

The facts.

Alaska has a population of about 700,000 people.
Their annual budget is about $11 billion.
Under Palin, revenues were about $10 billion a year.
The frivilous lawsuits were costing the state $1.9 million a year.
Palin's personal legal fees cost her about $500,000 of her own money.

I think she was in a dilemma.

Stay in office: Face attacks and false accusations for the sake of saying you have served a full term as governor.

Resign: New opportunities, but denouncement as a "quitter", and hardly a shot in hell of being a 2012 candidate.

I personally think Fred Thompson would have been a better VP pick strategically. He has reached across the aisle to work with budget-conscious Democrats. Unlike McCain, he didn't become the aisle. He would not have allowed McCain to sacrifice his greatest talking point: his experience. Unfortunately, McCain's flip-flops throughout the years made his experience a minus, rather than a plus.

Macfistowannabe 07-11-2009 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 6247704)
Conservatism should be a broad church, I view it as positive that there is a lot more dissent among conservatives now than in the Bush years.

There are many types of conservatives: neoconservatives, paleoconservatives, conservative nationalists, isolationists, anarcho-capitalists, neolibertarians, paleolibertarians...

You can't please everyone, so you might as well stand for what you truly believe in.

BVS 07-11-2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247820)
Ann amuses me on occasion.

I think she discredits herself by saying a lot of idiotic things, but she's still entertaining.

I agree, it seems like she almost doesn't want to be taken seriously sometimes...:shrug:

BVS 07-11-2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247838)
You're OBSESSED with Rush. Like, "I get a renob whenever he talks" obsessed.

Well, I use "Rush" to kind of encompass all of extreme right wing media. I never really paid much attention to Rush until recently when I met those that actually took him to be a viable news source. I grew up in Texas surrounded by hard core conservatives, but very few Rush listeners. But recently in here and other walks of life I have found those who actually take him seriously, so I started to listen to him. His followers scare me, but they are a minority in conservatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247838)
Palin.

She is a threat to the left because she is popular among conservatives. I see the same parallels with her that I saw with Obama. The Obots cheered when Obama sneezed. The P-bots think everything she does is genius. Both of them came out of the woodwork with index card resumes. Both were propped up by powerful people. Both of them have charisma, but a short list of accomplishments.

I was always willing to admit that Obama had a fairly thin resume, but it didn't bother me, experience isn't everything, so it wasn't her lack of experience that bothered me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247838)
Again, I'm a social observer. (Although I take it as a compliment when you said that every right-wing blog ought to be using my talking points)

Oh no, no, no... I said they should read them, it might make them rethink their stance. I think you have a long way to go on being well equipped to talk about that subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247838)
The facts.

Alaska has a population of about 700,000 people.
Their annual budget is about $11 billion.
Under Palin, revenues were about $10 billion a year.
The frivilous lawsuits were costing the state $1.9 million a year.
Palin's personal legal fees cost her about $500,000 of her own money.

Yeah that first one isn't something I think Fguy understood.

And I don't mean to sound like it's easy, but compabably to other states it's fairly easy to make such revenues. I think Palin's lawsuit are for the most part her own doing, part naivety, part non-transparency, and part ignorance. I have a hard time believing 100% innocence if they've gone this far and cost her this much... I think she is either partly in the wrong(or fully though I doubt it) or she's at least scared that maybe she did do something wrong without being fully aware.

Macfistowannabe 07-11-2009 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247874)
I think Palin's lawsuit are for the most part her own doing, part naivety, part non-transparency, and part ignorance. I have a hard time believing 100% innocence if they've gone this far and cost her this much...

Wow.

You really do believe that nobody is out to shoot her down.

Macfistowannabe 07-11-2009 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 6247874)
Well, I use "Rush" to kind of encompass all of extreme right wing media.

I think you're mischaracterizing a lot of people with this statement.

I don't think Rush represents anything outside of mainstream conservatism.

yolland 07-11-2009 11:22 PM

The ethics complaints against Palin haven't, in fact, gone very far; to date all but 2 have been dismissed as being without merit before making it to the hearing stage.

BVS 07-11-2009 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe (Post 6247879)
Wow.

You really do believe that nobody is out to shoot her down.

I didn't say that I believe no one is out to "shoot her down" I'm sure there are... But if I'm not mistaken some of these stem from before she was even the VP canidate, and if they have gone this far there is usually enough gray area that she hasn't been able to get dismissed, that is usually a bad sign for these types of lawsuits.


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