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-   -   Will Obama end Don't Ask Don't Tell? (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/will-obama-end-dont-ask-dont-tell-191008.html)

deep 12-18-2010 02:54 PM

Quote:

Senators voted 63 to 33 to proceed with debate on the bill, and a final vote is scheduled for 3 p.m. With the lobsided procedural vote, the likelihood that the ban will be repealed is very high.
99 votes there ^


and then when the final vote came
Quote:

It passed the Senate in a 65-31 vote.
only 96?

where did 3 Senators go?

My guess is 3 of the no voters, did not want to go down in history as voting for discrimination. In the final vote.

Irvine511 12-18-2010 03:07 PM

check your math, deep.

63 + 33 = 96.

Manchin (D-WV)
Bunning (R-KY)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)

all did not vote.

Burr (NC) and Ensign (NV) switched their votes.

deep 12-18-2010 03:16 PM

you are right

bad math, on my part

mobvok 12-18-2010 03:20 PM

I thought there was absolutely, positively, completely, no way in hell that "golly, we'll just break a Senate fillibuster!" was going to be a successful plan to repeal DADT, but there you go.

Congrats to Democrats and the breakaway Republicans for getting this done.

Moonlit_Angel 12-18-2010 03:30 PM

:shocked:

:happydance: :dancing: :dance: :applaud: WOOOOOOOOOHOO!

Words cannot express how awesomely happy this news makes me :D. Way to go, Congress :up:

Angela

deep 12-18-2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

In a test earlier Saturday, the Senate voted 63 to 33 for repeal, a large enough outcome to assure final passage after six Republicans joined with Democrats to advance the bill.

The six Republican senators who voted with the majority were: Scott Brown, of Massachusetts; Susan M. Collins and Olympia J. Snowe, both of Maine; Mark Kirk of Illinois; Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and George Voinovich of Ohio. Sen. Joe Manchin, of West Virginia, the only Democrat to oppose repeal, did not vote.

In the final vote, two more Republicans, John Ensign of Nevada and Richard Burr of North Carolina, crossed over.
Good for Burr, NC.

Burr just got re-elected so he does not have to worry about a right wing attack until 2016.

By then I presume he can have voted the 'right' way on other GOP priorities.

Pearl 12-18-2010 04:08 PM

:happydance:

corianderstem 12-18-2010 04:12 PM

It's about time.

Bono's shades 12-18-2010 04:20 PM

:shocked:

What? The Senate actually got something important accomplished?? Is it opposite day?

Bye-Bye DADT! :applaud:

Moonlit_Angel 12-18-2010 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bono's shades (Post 7075099)
What? The Senate actually got something important accomplished?? Is it opposite day?

:giggle: My thoughts exactly.

Angela

BonosSaint 12-18-2010 06:16 PM

Good.

yolland 12-18-2010 08:00 PM

Today is a good day.
 
Ta-Nehisi Coates, over at The Atlantic:
Quote:

Here is John McCain, in full-throttled white populist mode, spinning DADT's repeal as plot by the elite Georgetown-Manhattan axis of America. The notion, which McCain pitches here, that DADT is a victory for people who either never served in the military, or don't know anyone in the military, is demagoguery. Worse, it's of a piece with McCain's habit of setting his clock according to his own disposition.

So Robert Gates, an Air Force vet, disagrees with John McCain, and by the factual lights of McCain, Gates is dismissed as a "political appointee who's never been in the military." Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs, disagrees with McCain and is transformed into someone who McCain does not "view as a military leader." And a policy with the support of nearly 80% of Americans can only be viewed through the machinations of Georgetown cocktail parties. Even the military itself, in McCain's mind, is bent to his prejudice. By implication he defines it as a provincial outfit almost totally rooted, not in a time or a place, but in the smallness of McCain's square mind.

We have, of late, taken to avoiding comparisons between the struggles of gays and the struggles of blacks. And yet, in this instance, the notion that DADT is actually a Georgetown cocktail party plot, surely recalls the notion that "Lincolnism" is actually the work of miscegenaters. The case is different, but the disinclination to argue on the grounds of facts, the proclivity for changing the subject, the penchant for deceitful ad hominem, and the bigoted appeal to fear, is the same as it ever was. All talk of patriotic sacrifice and the true nature of the Senator's heart is vacuous. You are what your record says you are. In this business, here is the record of John McCain.

'In the Salons of Georgetown'
So what kinds of drinking establishments in which neighborhoods of DC do real men like McCain head for to trade "high fives" after passing landmark legislation?

Moonlit_Angel 12-18-2010 09:20 PM

Oh, McCain, shut up already. Please.

You lost. Deal with it.

Angela

PhilsFan 12-18-2010 10:14 PM

It took one campaign for him to go from The Maverick to Gentleman Jim Bunning and the conservative lunatics.

John McCain's story will be an American tragedy, when all is said and done.

KhanadaRhodes 12-18-2010 11:02 PM

what a great day. :)

and god mccain is a sore loser.

daygloeyes2 12-18-2010 11:07 PM

So happy about this! :up:

Irvine511 12-19-2010 12:32 AM

when did McCain morph into Jessie Helms?

anyway, i was at a small party tonight with someone who works for Leiiberman, and while he was proud of the work he did, he insisted that much of the victory credit has to fall at the feet of Susan Collins of Maine. as i always find, as a lay person talking to people who do this for a living, the workings of the Senate and of DC in general are exhilaratingly complex, everyone has their priorities, and the WH was and is still focused on START.

the other thing that came up was that big credit is due to the SecDef and McMullen - while Obama may have gotten the on the side of reform, their tenacity could not have been cajoled by the president himself. the two men were absolutely convinced of the advantages of repeal, that it would make for a stronger and safer America. ultimately, change came from within the military itself.

and in a few months, let alone a few years, this will all seem so mundane, and we'll wonder what all the fuss was about, and the homophobes will wind up in the dustbin of history alongside the racists, the segregationists, and the misogynists.

deep 12-19-2010 12:50 AM

as someone that was there when this fight began
much credit is due to Bill Clinton, he got very bloody in 93 trying to change the policy then, he was half way successful.

before DADT there was a flat out prohibition of any gay person serving, they had to tell when asked. DADT from 93 through present, proved that gays are capable of serving and serving well.

AchtungBono 12-19-2010 12:52 AM

I'm very sorry about the repealing of this policy.

Instead of respecting the soldier's privacy about his/her sexual orientation, the soldiers will now be subject to open discrimination and persecution based on their lifestyle.

A person's sexual orientation is nobody's business but their own and I'm very sorry that now it will be EVERYBODY's business.

Irvine511 12-19-2010 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AchtungBono (Post 7075472)
I'm very sorry about the repealing of this policy.

Instead of respecting the soldier's privacy about his/her sexual orientation, the soldiers will now be subject to open discrimination and persecution based on their lifestyle.

A person's sexual orientation is nobody's business but their own and I'm very sorry that now it will be EVERYBODY's business.



you really don't understand what has just happened -- and you do know that Israel doesn't discriminate against gay soldiers, yes?

being gay is not a lifestyle. it's a sexual ORIENTATION. do you talk about your husband? your children? what you did over the weekend? what movie you saw with your husband? if so, then you gave up your PRIVACY at work because you let us know that you are HETEROSEXUAL. your sexual orientation is my business because it is very public. if you are straight, do you think twice about talking about your family life? no one wants the details of your sex life, but you try, this coming monday, to go a week without mentioning ANY details of your life outside of work.

all that this does is allow gay people to not fear discharge because, god forbid, they write a letter to their partner or they let it slip that the went on a date over the weekend with someone of the same gender.

please, educate yourself. don't use that vile world LIFESTYLE. chances are, your LIFESTYLE and mine are just about the same. i get up, eat breakfast, and kiss someone goodbye, just like you do. and at night, i come home, make dinner, and talk about my day and fall asleep next to that same person, just like you do.


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