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the iron horse 10-17-2008 08:59 PM

Gertrude Bell and the Birth of Iraq
 
Gertrude Bell and the Birth of Iraq, by Chris Calder [history, Middle East, Transjordan, Jordon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Ibn Saud, Faisal, T.E. Lawrence, Winston Churchill]

I think it was the British, during the 1940s, that finalized the current borders.

I asgree with Joe Biden that the U.S. should have divided, after the recent U.S. invasion, Iraq into three different regions (countries)

-the Sunnis

-the Kurds

-the Shiites

Those three groups will never get along with each other because of religious and cultural differences.
There is no compromoise in their religions.

financeguy 10-17-2008 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the iron horse (Post 5544135)
There is no compromoise in their religions.

In my view, that is a not particularly insightful statement, I am sorry to say. The nature of the human is tribalistic. Religion is the convenient scapegoat.

Islam is the convenient scapegoat.

the iron horse 10-17-2008 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 5544141)
In my view, that is a not particularly insightful statement, I am sorry to say. The nature of the human is tribalistic. Religion is the convenient scapegoat.

Islam is the convenient scapegoat.


I do not understand your comment.

The Sunnis and the Shiites are deeply divided on their interpretation of how to practice their faith. This, I think, is one of the causes of the violence in Iraq.

financeguy 10-17-2008 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the iron horse (Post 5544148)
I do not understand your comment.

The Sunnis and the Shiites are deeply divided on their interpretation of how to practice their faith. This, I think, is one of the causes of the violence in Iraq.

Trace it back to its roots, it goes back to tribalism.

A_Wanderer 10-17-2008 09:16 PM

They are not fighting over deep theological questions, it's tribal identity and local power plays.

Christians are poorly placed to criticise Islam as inferior on the basis of sectarianism.

Harry Vest 10-17-2008 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 5544152)
Trace it back to its roots, it goes back to tribalism.


Everything goes back to tribalism.

the iron horse 10-17-2008 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer (Post 5544156)
They are not fighting over deep theological questions, it's tribal identity and local power plays.

Christians are poorly placed to criticise Islam as inferior on the basis of sectarianism.


How do you suggest we discuss the distinct differences among Muslims?

Where can we who discuss this topic be properly placed?

I have not mentioned Christians in my comments. Why the comment on Christians?

melon 10-17-2008 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by financeguy (Post 5544152)
Trace it back to its roots, it goes back to tribalism.

Indeed. Note that the Iraqi Kurds are also Sunni Muslim, but they clearly do not get along with their Sunni Arab neighbors to the South.

Quite simply, as you put it, it comes completely down to tribalism. The Middle East is quite easily described as a group of Muslims that hate each other, both historically and presently.

diamond 10-17-2008 11:54 PM

So my left leaning friends are segregationists?

Remarkable.

<>

DrTeeth 10-18-2008 10:50 AM

The US doesn't own Iraq and it's not their place to make those decisions.

BVS 10-19-2008 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diamond (Post 5544318)
So my left leaning friends are segregationists?

Remarkable.

<>

What?! :eyebrow:

Irvine511 10-19-2008 03:46 PM

this is what's going to happen over the next 10 years. more violence to come!

melon 10-19-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the iron horse (Post 5544183)
How do you suggest we discuss the distinct differences among Muslims?

With a thorough understanding of the expansive and varied history of the Islamic world, and the nations and tribes that make it up. Undoubtedly, studying this to the appropriate level is very long and complicated, but it is necessary.

diamond 10-20-2008 08:28 PM

In the meantime, segregation rules!

<>

the iron horse 10-21-2008 06:38 PM

Many here see to imply that tribalism is the only reason for division in Iraq.

You can't dismiss the theological differences.
Which, I think, are the reasons for the violence.
What Is the Difference Between Sunni and Shiite Muslims--and Why Does It Matter?


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