US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part III
 

Continue discussion, guys.

You know, I'm getting pretty tired of seeing that word in here. Since when is it a crime to have convictions? Are they bigots because they have an opinion different that yours, phillyfan? Aren't you then, by definition, a bigot yourself?

Bigot = a person intolerant of opinions different that their own

I don't think it's an "opinion" to deny any human being equal rights, employment,military service, etc. on the basis of sexual orientation or any other innate human quality and/or trait. Whether or not your opinion is that it is not innate and is morally wrong somehow, that doesn't give you the right to do that.

If that "opinion" is intolerance how is one to be tolerant of that?

What kind of "conviction" makes one think homosexuals can't serve their country?

Are you nuts?

First, I'm going to stop you throwing around the word "opinion" when it comes to issue of homosexual rights.

Liberals and conservatives in general differ on issues. And there are merits to both sides, most of the time. Taxes, trade, abortion, etc. All issues with legitimate reasoning on both sides. And each side has OPINIONS. Yes.

But on the issue of homosexual rights, there's no opinions. It's right and wrong. And the people (usually conservatives) who take these stances are WRONG. They don't have differing opinions. They're wrong. They deny civil rights to human beings. They're wrong. They're bigots. There should be no debate, no issue here. They're flat out wrong.

in order to be fair, i will actually come out and say that i'm willing to bet that most of the Republican candidates aren't, themselves, bigoted against gays or, if the immigration frenzy is any indication, Mexicans.

i am willing to say that they are using bigotry against gay people and Mexicans to get votes.

that was the other striking thing about the debate, for me. the fervor regarding immigration. and i feel quite certain that much of it is genuinely racist -- perhaps unknowingly racist, would there be that much of an issue if there were all these Norwegians streaming across the border?

Don't ask me. Like I said earlier, I disagree with conventional Republican "no gays in the military" belief.

:banghead: YES! It's not a racism thing! It's a national security thing! It's about obeying our own laws!

But it is "conviction" that makes them deny other rights?

So they can die for this country but aren't good enough to be equal to you?

Wow, that "opinion" sucks, how does one look at that opinion and not see bigotry?

Then how come immigration is suddenly all about Mexicans? No one wants to build a fence across the Atlantic Ocean, do they?

They don't care when it's Canadians.

Because an incredible majority of people here illegally came via the south. If hypothetically millions of people enter here illegally via the east, then the problem is equally as serious, and 9/11 was a testament to this.

:eyebrow:

Didn't they come legally to the US?

Well I do. I don't care if you're black, white, brown, Mexican, Swedish, Australian, whatever. I want zero illegal immigration.

:eyebrow:

A handful did not.

But it's not just about your opinion specifically that we're worried about. It's your party! The guys you are defending on many of these issues!

i genuinely disagree with you. i really do.

so the people who flew the airplanes into the WTC were illegal immigrants?

5 of the 19 violated federal immigration laws. They were illegal aliens, and if the police had known that when 4 of them were stopped for speeding, they could have been arrested.