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phillyfan26 10-24-2007 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Could it be because, in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. :huh:

BVS 10-24-2007 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Could it be because, in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation?

What:huh: That doesn't make any sense. If you are born female you'll more than likely by straight, but if born male you'll more likely be gay?

BrownEyedBoy 10-24-2007 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26


I'm not quite sure what you're asking. :huh:

You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.

phillyfan26 10-24-2007 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.
Oh give me break.

1) Sexual orientation means heterosexuality of homosexuality. Not "liking boys" or "liking girls." Gender means nothing with hetero- or homo- sexuality.

2) What the hell does "when you ask someone in FYM" mean?

martha 10-24-2007 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But rape(not date rape) has very little to do with sex. It has to do with power.
Don't kid yourself on the date rape thing. It's all about power.

martha 10-24-2007 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


You asked me how gender and sexual orientation are related and I merely answered that in most cases, gender determines sexual orientation. Boys, in most cases - except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.

Again, you're letting fear and prejudice replace fact.

BrownEyedBoy 10-24-2007 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26



2) What the hell does "when you ask someone in FYM" mean?


It means that everywhere else in the world people will tell you that "generally" people are born heterosexuals and that if you ask someone in FYM who views the issue with passionate and biased eyes you get this response:

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26


Gender means nothing with hetero- or homo- sexuality.



phillyfan26 10-24-2007 10:10 PM

You clearly seem to not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not denying that most people are heterosexual at all.

I don't understand what your point about gender and orientation is though.

That's what I'm saying: Your point makes no sense.

ETA: And I love how suddenly I'm the one who's "passionate and biased." :rolleyes:

ShipOfFools 10-24-2007 10:10 PM

I was in the scouts when I was younger, and I don't recall there being a rule like that. It's absolutely pathetic that the Boy Scouts have become that discriminatory. If I had kids, at this point I wouldn't let them join the Scouts. :mad:

BrownEyedBoy 10-24-2007 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
You clearly seem to not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not denying that most people are heterosexual at all.

I don't understand what your point about gender and orientation is though.

That's what I'm saying: Your point makes no sense.

ETA: And I love how suddenly I'm the one who's "passionate and biased." :rolleyes:

I didn't mean to be offensive by saying passionate and biased. I just tried to choose the correct words that would describe what I'm perceiving from you.

My point with gender and orientation is that it makes people uncomfortable to have intimacy with strangers of the opposite sexual orientation. And I believe that's perfectly normal.

So if men and women, who have been separated for centuries because of their orientation, are separated in intimacy than so should homosexuals.

phillyfan26 10-24-2007 10:18 PM

Oh, so because we've always been "weirded out" by gays "for centuries" because we thought they were sinners or some other kind of religious garbage, it's OK to discriminate?

It's been explained already that the separation was not because of intimacy.

Quote:

Originally posted by anitram
Boys and girls (at least in the Western setting) have not been culturally groomed to shower together, and therefore it is seen as unacceptable much like walking around topless (for women) is not something you would see on our streets.

Boys do shower together and women shower together and there are gay men and lesbians among them that you may be unaware of.


BrownEyedBoy 10-24-2007 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
Oh, so because we've always been "weirded out" by gays "for centuries" because we thought they were sinners or some other kind of religious garbage, it's OK to discriminate?

It's been explained already that the separation was not because of intimacy.



Oh that's right, that post removed every single doubt in my mind that men and women are, in fact, separated because of physiology. Ask around. Ask every straight guy you know if they would be comfortable showering in the same place as gay men. If the result offends you, then ask women if they would comfortable showering in the same showers as straight men.

BVS 10-24-2007 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by martha


Don't kid yourself on the date rape thing. It's all about power.

I agree, but one has a little more to do with getting off than the other. Date rape, if the woman consented the result would be the same. Whereas rape doen't even always need the sexual gratification, and if she consented the result wouldn't be the same.

Yes they are both about power, but one started off about being more about sex than the other.

phillyfan26 10-24-2007 10:23 PM

Wrong.

You ask women if they would be comfortable showering in the same showers as gay women.

And most men have showered with a gay already, so what's the big deal?

yolland 10-24-2007 10:23 PM

Although everyone is staying fairly civil, this discussion seems to just be going in circles.

BVS 10-24-2007 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

except apparently when you ask someone in FYM - like girls, and viceversa.

:rolleyes: This is why you have so little credibilty.

Diemen 10-24-2007 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
My point with gender and orientation is that it makes people uncomfortable to have intimacy with strangers of the opposite sexual orientation. And I believe that's perfectly normal.

So if men and women, who have been separated for centuries because of their orientation, are separated in intimacy than so should homosexuals.

It used to make people uncomfortable to share the same quarters with minorities. That used to be normal. Should we never have desegregated?

It used to make people uncomfortable to see intimacy between people of different races. That used to be normal. Should we not have allowed interracial marriages to become acceptable?

Seriously, think of the position you're taking. "It's always been that way, so why ruffle feathers" completely ignores the central issue of equality.

BrownEyedBoy 10-24-2007 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
Wrong.

You ask women if they would be comfortable showering in the same showers as gay women.

And most men have showered with a gay already, so what's the big deal?

Like I said before, women view sex differently than men. That is why you're opposite of women being asked if they are comfortable showering with lesbians doesn't apply.

In order for there to be uncomfortableness there has to be a man involved. Because men view sex differently than women. Go ahead and ask a woman if she would feel uncomfortable showering with straight men and if she says yes please tell her I feel offended because of her presumption that us straight males "cannot control ourselves."

phillyfan26 10-24-2007 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Like I said before, women view sex differently than men. That is why you're opposite of women being asked if they are comfortable showering with lesbians doesn't apply.

In order for there to be uncomfortableness there has to be a man involved. Because men view sex differently than women. Go ahead and ask a woman if she would feel uncomfortable showering with straight men and if she says yes please tell her I feel offended because of her presumption that us straight males "cannot control ourselves."

Oh dear God.

I can't even begin to explain how much is wrong with this post tonight. I need a day or so.

Irvine511 10-24-2007 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy



It means that everywhere else in the world people will tell you that "generally" people are born heterosexuals and that if you ask someone in FYM who views the issue with passionate and biased eyes you get this response:




well, i'll just take this to mean that the two (yes, just two) openly gay and frequently posting FYMers are just very adept at expressing their viewpoints and no one is allowed to get away with homophobia, prejudice, and derogatory stereotypes.


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