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Justin24 03-15-2007 03:58 PM


Brownback supports Pace's remark on gays By SAM HANANEL, Associated Press Writer
23 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record) is backing the Pentagon's top general over his remarks that homosexuality is immoral.


The Kansas senator planned to send a letter on Thursday to President Bush supporting Marine Gen. Peter Pace, who earlier this week likened homosexuality to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs also said: "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts."

Lawmakers of both parties criticized the remarks, but Brownback's letter called the criticism "both unfair and unfortunate."

"We should not expect someone as qualified, accomplished and articulate as General Pace to lack personal views on important moral issues," Brownback said. "In fact, we should expect that anyone entrusted with such great responsibility will have strong moral views."

Asked whether he agreed with Pace's comments, Brownback said: "I do not believe being a homosexual is immoral, but I do believe homosexual acts are. I'm a Catholic and the church has clear teachings on this."

While there is no indication that Pace's job is in jeopardy, Brownback's letter to Bush said "personal moral beliefs" should not disqualify anyone from a position of leadership in the U.S. military.

"General Pace's recent remarks do not deserve the criticism they have received," the letter said. "In fact, we applaud General Pace for maintaining a personal commitment to moral principles."

Pace said he supports the military's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay service members are required to keep their sexual orientation private. Brownback on Thursday said "don't ask, don't tell" is "an appropriate policy."

Brownback, a favorite of the religious right, has been a prominent opponent of gay marriage.

Brownback spokesman Brian Hart said the senator was working Thursday to get other lawmakers to sign his letter. Hart said Brownback's office would not disclose who has signed on to the letter until there is "a final count."

On his campaign bus in Iowa on Thursday, Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., declined to comment when asked whether he agreed with Gen. Peter Pace's comment that homosexuality was immoral. He said he still backs the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. "It's working."

MrsSpringsteen 03-15-2007 06:00 PM

Well Hillary Clinton wouldn't say whether she thinks homosexuality is immoral or not, and neither would any of the other Democratic candidates-not that I heard about or read.

Brownback doesn't get that Pace's personal moral views have no place in military policy, and that in his position he needs to keep them private. He should "don't tell' them.

anitram 03-15-2007 06:03 PM


Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Wel Hillary Clinton wouldn't say whether she thinks homosexuality is immoral or not, and neither would any of the other Democratic candidates-not that I heard about or read.

Both Hillary and Obama issued statements today stating that it is not immoral. They obviously faced pressure to do so.

MrsSpringsteen 03-15-2007 06:06 PM

I wonder how many focus groups they considered before issuing their statements. I'll have to look them up. I wish just once someone would have the moral conviction to speak out on something like that without being afraid of political consequences.

Appearing on Bloomberg News, Sen. Hillary Clinton:

"Well I've heard from a number of my friends and I've certainly clarified with them any misunderstanding that anyone had, because I disagree with General Pace completely. I do not think homosexuality is immoral. But the point I was trying to make is that this policy of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is not working. I have been against it for many years because I think it does a grave injustice to patriotic Americans who want to serve their country. And so I have called for its repeal and I'd like to follow the lead of our allies like, Great Britain and Israel and let people who wish to serve their country be able to join and do so. And then let the uniform code of military justice determine if conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming. That's fine. That's what we do with everybody. But let's not be eliminating people because of who they are or who they love."

Why didn't she just say it in the first place long before her friends questioned it?


"So why the dance? Clinton and Obama supporters, speaking on condition of anonymity, said both might have been trying to avoid offending socially conservative Democrats, particularly churchgoing African-Americans, who share Pace's views.

Steve Sanders, a gay Democrat who sat on the party's platform committee in 2000, said Clinton and Obama are engaged in a delicate balancing act. "Hillary and Barack have made very public overtures to religious Americans. They are trying to figure out how progressive Democrats can also make appeals to Americans of faith. It's a work in progress."

MrsSpringsteen 03-17-2007 10:09 AM

Why do politicians keep using that term?

CEDAR FALLS, Iowa CNN) -- Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, issued an apology for his use of the phrase "tar baby" in response to a question he received at his mid-day town hall meeting in Cedar Falls, Iowa on Friday.

A questioner asked McCain whether as president he "would be bold enough to address the issue of equal access to children for fathers that have gone through divorce."

The Republican presidential candidate responded, "I'm sorry to disappoint you, I am not going to overturn divorce court decisions. That's why we have courts and that's why people go to court and get a divorce. If I as President of the United States said this decision has to be overturned without the proper appeals process then I would be disturbing our entire system of government... But for me to stand here before all these people and say that I'm going declare divorces invalid because someone feels that they weren't treated fairly in court, we are getting into a, uh, uh, tar baby of enormous proportions. For me to stand here before all these people and say that I'm going declare divorces invalid because someone feels that they weren't treated fairly in court, we are getting into a, uh, uh, tar baby of enormous proportions."

Later at a press conference, CNN's Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley asked McCain about his use of the phrase "tar baby," viewed by some as having racist overtones.

"I hope that it's not viewed that way," McCain said. "It was a situation where if I kept going on that I would then be overturning court decisions. I don't think I should have used that word and it was wrong to do so."

MrsSpringsteen 03-17-2007 10:18 AM

NY Times

Somewhere in Iowa

A transcript of the encounter follows. (Weaver is John Weaver, his senior adviser, and Brian is Mr. Jones, his press secretary):

Reporter: “Should U.S. taxpayer money go to places like Africa to fund contraception to prevent AIDS?”

Mr. McCain: “Well I think it’s a combination. The guy I really respect on this is Dr. Coburn. He believes – and I was just reading the thing he wrote– that you should do what you can to encourage abstinence where there is going to be sexual activity. Where that doesn’t succeed, than he thinks that we should employ contraceptives as well. But I agree with him that the first priority is on abstinence. I look to people like Dr. Coburn. I’m not very wise on it.”

(Mr. McCain turns to take a question on Iraq, but a moment later looks back to the reporter who asked him about AIDS.)

Mr. McCain: “I haven’t thought about it. Before I give you an answer, let me think about. Let me think about it a little bit because I never got a question about it before. I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

This went on for a few more moments until a reporter from the Chicago Tribune broke in and asked Mr. McCain about the weight of a pig that he saw at the Iowa State Fair last year.

BonosSaint 03-17-2007 10:24 AM

Oh, my fucking God.

MrsSpringsteen 03-17-2007 10:30 AM

Reporter- "Senator McCain, do you think if you put your hand in an open flame on a stove that you'd get burned"

McCain- "Well you've stumped me. I used to have a position on that in the past, let me get one of my aides to find that out"

anitram 03-17-2007 11:47 AM

McCain is a disgrace.

If some official in the Catholic Church said he didn't know whether contraceptives decreased the spread of AIDS, everyone would be calling him negligent and irresponsible. This is no different.

U2Man 03-17-2007 11:57 AM


Originally posted by anitram
McCain is a disgrace.

If some official in the Catholic Church said he didn't know whether contraceptives decreased the spread of AIDS, everyone would be calling him negligent and irresponsible. This is no different.


verte76 03-17-2007 04:14 PM

McCain is indeed a disgrace. His position on contraceptives is disgusting.

MrsSpringsteen 03-20-2007 02:03 PM

What next from Mitt?

By Brian McGrory, Boston Globe Columnist | March 20, 2007

Now that Mitt Romney has flip-flopped on, deep breath here, abortion rights, gay rights, gun control, immigration policy, and campaign finance reform, what's left to reverse? Maybe this:

July 20, 2007

DES MOINES -- Trailing by double-digit margins in the polls to thrice-married Rudolph Giuliani and twice-married John McCain, presidential candidate Mitt Romney announced yesterday that he was seeking a divorce from his longtime wife, Ann.

"Where's my sweetheart?" Romney asked at the beginning of a speech to an overflowing crowd of supporters in this, the first caucus state. "Come on up here, Ann."

When Ann Romney arrived on stage, Romney said, "Can you believe we've been married 38 years?"

Then he added: "That's long enough. Tomorrow, I'm filing for divorce."

Leaving the podium at the end of the event, Romney was heard to tell an aide, "Let's see which way the divorcee vote breaks now."

Sept. 30, 2007

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- With the public rallying around Rudy Giuliani in his public estrangement from his son, Mitt Romney called a press conference to announce that he had severed all ties to his five boys.

Asked why, Romney glanced quizzically at an aide standing in the wings, then told the mob of reporters, "Um, because."

When pressed on what had always appeared to be his closeness to his sons, Romney responded, "Our relationship has evolved."

Dec. 5, 2007

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Presidential candidate Mitt Romney denied ever being governor of Massachusetts, telling supporters at a private fund-raiser: "Check the records. I was never there."

Jan. 20, 2008

CONCORD, N.H. -- Bested by John McCain in the first-in-the-nation primary here, Mitt Romney arrived at a press conference with the use of a walker and the aid of a healthcare worker and announced, "I'm not as young as I used to be."

Jan. 28, 2008

MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. -- Fading presidential candidate Mitt Romney got rip-roaring drunk at a local Hooters on the eve of the pivotal South Carolina primary.

Later that night, Romney appeared before reporters while gulping a Bud longneck and puffing on an unfiltered Pall Mall and announced: "I love NASCAR racing. The only reason I'm running for president is to make it an Olympic sport."

Told by a member of the news media that the president has no authority over the Olympics, Romney responded, "Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Feb. 1, 2008

NEW YORK -- Former governor Mitt Romney, whose once bright political star has faded into a haze of contorted issue positions, cheap booze, loose women, and profanity-laced speeches, announced that he is converting from Mormonism to Judaism.

"I am, at heart, a Jewish man," Romney said, several days ahead of the critical New York primary. The proclamation came one day after he told a small crowd of yogis in California that he was forgoing his Mormon beliefs to pursue Eastern spirituality.

Feb. 6, 2008

BOSTON -- Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney withdrew from the presidential race with a rousing speech declaring his respect for gays as well as straights, his belief that abortion laws should remain unchanged, his disdain for guns that plague urban centers, and his tolerance for struggling immigrants who seek a better life on American shores.

Amid euphoric applause from a swelling crowd that included his wife and sons, Romney was asked why he didn't voice these beliefs during his failed campaign.

"It never occurred to me that people might like me for who I am," he said.

BVS 03-20-2007 02:17 PM


MrsSpringsteen 03-22-2007 09:44 AM

Oh no, it must be bad news. I wonder if he'll drop out. That's very sad news.

Edwards, wife to hold news conference

(AP)John Edwards disclosed that his wife, Elizabeth, had breast cancer the day after he lost the vice presidency in the 2004 election. Now his political future may hinge on her health.

The couple planned a news conference in Chapel Hill, N.C., to discuss their plans Thursday, a day after visiting doctors who are monitoring Mrs. Edwards' recovery from the cancer.

Campaign officials refused to answer any questions about what the couple learned at the doctor's appointment or how it might affect Edwards' second presidential bid. Edwards had cut short a trip to Iowa to be with his wife but still attended a barbecue fundraiser Wednesday evening in Chapel Hill, their hometown.

The campaign had said Mrs. Edwards, 57, had a follow-up appointment Wednesday to a routine test she had Monday. The campaign explained that she had similar follow-ups in the past but they always resulted in a clean bill of health.

The campaign refused to describe what happened this time.

anitram 03-22-2007 09:50 AM

She's a great lady, I hope the news is not the worst everyone is imagining. :(

U2democrat 03-22-2007 09:53 AM

I know I'm really worried. Have they said anything about what time they plan to discuss it?

Elizabeth :hug:

MrsSpringsteen 03-22-2007 12:09 PM

It's supposed to be around now

MrsSpringsteen 03-22-2007 12:23 PM

She has cancer again, malignant. Largely confined in bone-in her rib.

BonoIsMyMuse 03-22-2007 12:26 PM

Treatable but not curable? That doesn't sound promising :(

anitram 03-22-2007 12:37 PM

It's terrible news. :(

I never thought he had a chance of winning the nomination but he was very progressive and had some good ideas. It is heartbreaking that it had to come for this.

He seems like a wonderful man and husband. I wish them the best.

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