Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby

[U2387]

I am I the only one that notices that U2 consistently neglects JT album cuts every tour when compared to AB?

In both number and variety of songs played, AB gets mined every tour while JT gets the Big 3(4 when you count live staple Bullet) and that's about it.

Aside from the songs they have to play a bunch of times every tour- One and Mysterious Ways-numerous AB tracks make it in as staples for long periods of time. Ranging from bringing back old staples like Until The End.. after short breaks(360 leg 1) to getting entirely new staples each time out- The Fly, Zoo Station, Ultraviolet. I am as happy Bullet is taking a rest as most of us here, but does anyone seriously think that Until the end... would ever sit out entirely for 3 legs in a row? That illustrates the disparity right there.

Outside of the JT heavy hitters we have the hardly obscure RTSS doing a couple legs on Vertigo and everything else getting at the very most a hand full of performances this decade. Mothers? Only a few times. IGC? 2 times acoustically, who wants that. One Tree Hill?Only the 3 or 4 times they had to with the Caroll family in attendance.

Spectacular songs that were great live like Trip Through Your Wires and Exit? You'd never know they wrote those!

WOWY and Still Haven't Found took long rests on both Elevation and Vertigo, far longer than Mysterious Ways or The Fly or Until The End ever took.

I love AB. But I've always had it in my rankings as a straight tie with JT for the top U2 album. I am probably in the minority here. Both albums are obviously 2 of the greatest albums ever made by anyone, but one is no better than the other. I firmly believe that.

Plus, I really, really, really want to hear another full band In God's Country and really, really, really want them to rip through a modern day version of Exit!!

Why does U2 dig so deep into AB so often that JT, the album they will ultimately be remembered most for, seems like a relative after thought?

Ideas, theories, discussion.

 

[cobl04]

i want to hear them do In God's Country, Exit and Running to Stand Still (if i was asked by the band, "what song do you want us to play?" this would be it) but i wouldn't say that AB gets "mired" while JT is left in the cold... certainly not this tour anyway.

 

[U2387]

i want to hear them do In God's Country, Exit and Running to Stand Still (if i was asked by the band, "what song do you want us to play?" this would be it) but i wouldn't say that AB gets "mired" while JT is left in the cold... certainly not this tour anyway.

"Mined." "Mired" makes no sense.

You really have to look at multiple tours over time, but even this tour doesn't give us anything new or exciting from JT when compared to AB.

360 AB:

One=staple +

Ultraviolet=staple*

Mysterious Ways=staple +

Until The End of the World=staple +

360 JT:

Where The Streets Have No Name=staple +

Still Haven't Found=staple +

With or Without You=staple +

Mothers of The Disappeared=a few times*

+= same damn songs that are always staples.

*=something pretty rare as far as live shows go.

The final analysis:

-AB 4 staples to JT's 3.

-JT's only asterisk was performed a few times, as compared to AB's, which was a staple and came with a whole new set of awesome visuals and Bono laser suit get up to go with it and became one of the undisputed highlights of the tour.

-And as you pointed out, 360 is the strong tour for the JT/AB comparison when compared to Elevation and Vertigo!

-Combine 360 where JT still loses to AB but by a smaller amount with Elevation and Vertigo and the gap becomes pretty bad.

 

[Galeongirl]

Obvious answer here is that U2 acknowledge that AB is the better album.

 

[digitize]

Obvious answer here is that U2 acknowledge that AB is the better album.

Exxxxxxactly. I'll be honest, I can't complain about AB being better represented than JT.

 

[cobl04]

point taken but i'm not sure the fact that AB has one more staple than JT is worthy of a thread.

 

[nirniva]

Obvious answer here is that U2 acknowledge that AB is the better album.

/thread
Seriously, though, I'm guessing they'll at least dust off OTH for the Oceania gigs.

 

[BVS]

We really need a new album

 

[U2girl]

U2 hates JT...

it's had it's share of mining too - Mothers on the last two tours, One tree hill and RTSS on Vertigo, In god's country twice on Elevation. It looks more bad because they dropped Bullet. Red hill town obviously won't get played, and I don't see Bono going down the Exit route anytime soon live. Also, add Spanish eyes being played on the last three tours. When's the last time AB got any B-sides live ?

 

[Galeongirl]

They hate an album they play three songs of regularly?.. Mothers hasn't been regularly played, only on special ocasion in Chile. And what do you mean last two tours? Last leg was the first performance since Popmart! RTSS was played the entire first leg on vertigo, OTH again, only on ocasion. For the NZ/Aussie leg.
Spanish Eyes was played ONCE each tour, so does that really count?
Your statistics are a bit odd...

 

[U2387]

They hate an album they play three songs of regularly?.. Mothers hasn't been regularly played, only on special ocasion in Chile. And what do you mean last two tours? Last leg was the first performance since Popmart! RTSS was played the entire first leg on vertigo, OTH again, only on ocasion. For the NZ/Aussie leg.
Spanish Eyes was played ONCE each tour, so does that really count?
Your statistics are a bit odd...

Exactly!!

You have to look at the overall quantity of material played as well as the number of times it is played.

Cobl04, I know there is only 1 more AB staple in the set but again, look at what I said about how frequently the rarity from each album has been performed this tour. The number of staples only tells part of the story.

Of course, in and of itself, this wouldn't be thread worthy, but I thought I made clear the other reasons that went along with it in making the thread. But what do I know, maybe you should join the moderating team.

And like I said, 360 is the tour where they've been closer to equal representation than previous tours!!

The point remains that JT gets nowhere near the acknowledgement AB continually gets. I am well aware that most people here hold AB well above JT and almost anything else everywhere, but when history is written, JT(though its no better an album, imo) will be what U2 is far and away more remembered for.

 

[cobl04]

well i must disagree with you then good sir.

here's hoping they hold One Tree Hill over to Melbourne

 

[U2387]

well i must disagree with you then good sir.

here's hoping they hold One Tree Hill over to Melbourne

No problem!!

I could definitely see OTH happening in Melbourne. It held over to Tokyo in 2006!

I'll pray with you.

 

[U2girl]

They hate an album they play three songs of regularly?.. Mothers hasn't been regularly played, only on special ocasion in Chile. And what do you mean last two tours? Last leg was the first performance since Popmart! RTSS was played the entire first leg on vertigo, OTH again, only on ocasion. For the NZ/Aussie leg.
Spanish Eyes was played ONCE each tour, so does that really count?
Your statistics are a bit odd...

The hate line was sarcasm.

The fact is still Mothers got played on Vertigo and 360 (last two U2 tours). Admiteddly rarely, but it did.

Yes, I know RTSS was around on the first leg of Vertigo. OTH got played on Vertigo, and it might get back on 360.

Why would it not count ?
The last time AB B-side got played live was...Zoo TV, and it was Satellite of love.

The gap is not that big as it's made out to be. Unless I missed something I believe these are the standings for the past three tours

Elevation:
JT - the big 4, IGC - 5 songs*
AB - the big 3, EBTTRT, The fly - 5 songs

Vertigo:
JT: - the big 4, RTSS, OTH and Mothers - 7
AB - the big 3, ZS, The fly, WGRYWH - 6

360:**
JT: the big 3, Mothers - 4
AB: the big 3, UV - 4

So while the frequency of something like UV vs Mothers or The Fly vs OTH is higher, the albums overall are pretty fairly divided.

* does not include the B-side Spanish eyes though it got played in Spain on all three tours. That's 1 JT B-side vs 0 AB B-sides.

** 360 is an ongoing tour, we don't know what else may get on the set from JT and/or AB.

 

[U2387]

The hate line was sarcasm.

The fact is still Mothers got played on Vertigo and 360 (last two U2 tours). Admiteddly rarely, but it did.

Yes, I know RTSS was around on the first leg of Vertigo. OTH got played on Vertigo, and it might get back on 360.

Why would it not count ?
The last time AB B-side got played live was...Zoo TV, and it was Satellite of love.

The gap is not that big as it's made out to be. Unless I missed something I believe these are the standings for the past three tours

Elevation:
JT - the big 4, IGC - 5 songs*
AB - the big 3, EBTTRT, The fly - 5 songs

Vertigo:
JT: - the big 4, RTSS, OTH and Mothers - 7
AB - the big 3, ZS, The fly, WGRYWH - 6

360:**
JT: the big 3, Mothers - 4
AB: the big 3, UV - 4

So while the frequency of something like UV vs Mothers or The Fly vs OTH is higher, the albums overall are pretty fairly divided.
* does not include the B-side Spanish eyes though it got played in Spain on all three tours. That's 1 JT B-side vs 0 AB B-sides.

** 360 is an ongoing tour, we don't know what else may get on the set from JT and/or AB.

But that one point that I put in bold and underlined is just too big to ignore.

You can't dismiss it off hand.

ZS, Fly, UV, Wild Horses have been given more than the very few performance JT non big 3 tracks have been given.

Would anyone equate IGC on Elevation with ZS on Vertigo??

Didn't think so..........

 

[rivergoat]

Sorry, but I don't care whether JT or AB gets more concert time... I just want more Pop and NLOTH!!!

goat

 

[Moser]

Obvious answer here is that U2 acknowledge that AB is the better album.

She speaks the truth!

Sorry, but I don't care whether JT or AB gets more concert time... I just want more Pop and NLOTH!!!

goat

You speak the greater truth!

 

[Axver]

STATS OVERLOAD AHEAD!

* does not include the B-side Spanish eyes though it got played in Spain on all three tours.

No it wasn't. There was no Spanish Eyes on the Vertigo Tour.

Anyway, U2387 has an interesting point regarding frequency. Let's have a look at some statistics to see how it stacks up. I've got two sets of stats below. Firstly, the amount of songs from JT and AB played on average at concerts; I have added up how many times each song from each album was performed and divided it by total shows on the tour. Secondly, the percentage of concerts each song was performed at; I am defining a regular song as one played at more than half of a tour's shows.

POPMART
JT: 4.04 songs per show
AB: 4 songs per show

JT: Bullet, ISHFWILF, Streets, WOWY (all 100%), MOTD (4.3%)
AB: EBTTRT, MW, One, UTEOTW (all 100%)
Regulars: 4 vs 4

Result: JT wins by the smallest of margins. For all practical purposes, a tie.

ELEVATION

JT: 3.04 songs per show
AB: 3.46 songs per show

JT: Streets (100%), Bullet (99.1%), WOWY (75.2%), ISHFWILF (26.5%), IGC (2.7%)
AB: One (100%), UTEOTW (99.1%), MW (77.9%), The Fly (60.2%), EBTTRT (8.8%)
Regulars: 3 JT vs 4 AB

Result: AB is the clear winner. Not only does it win both songs-per-show and regulars, but its third most regularly played song was played more than JT's third. Plus, JT's 4th and 5th can't even equal a combined frequency of AB's fourth most regular song.

Stats do not include JT b-side Spanish Eyes, at 0.9% of shows.

VERTIGO
JT: 3.88 songs per show
AB: 3.16 songs per show

JT: Bullet (100%), Streets (100%), WOWY (78.8%), ISHFWILF (68.9%), RTSS (35.6%), OTH (3%), MOTD (1.5%)
AB: One (100%), The Fly (68.2%), Zoo Station (53%), Mysterious Ways (50.8%), UTEOTW (31.1%), WGRYWH (12.1%), LIB (0.8%)
Regulars: 4 JT vs 4 AB

Result: JT wins, decisively. Its ratio of songs per show is clearly superior, and its fourth most frequent song was more frequently played than even AB's second most frequent song. The only point where AB does better is that its sixth most frequently played song outdoes JT's sixth most frequently played song by a considerable margin.

360, LEGS 1-3 ONLY
JT: 2.97 songs per show
AB: 3.1 songs per show

JT: Streets (100%), WOWY (98.5%), ISHFWILF (94%), MOTD (4.5%)
AB: One (100%), UV (80.6%), MW (73.1%), UTEOTW (56.7%)
Regulars: 3 JT vs 4 AB

Result: AB wins. JT's second and third most frequent songs have been played more than AB's second and third, but the fact JT's fourth has barely been played while all four AB songs have been regulars swings things in AB's favour.

Stats do not include JT b-side Spanish Eyes, at 1.5% of shows.

DIVERSITY AMONGST REGULARS

JT: Streets (4 out of 4 tours), WOWY (4 out of 4), ISHFWILF (3 out of 4), Bullet (3 out of 4) = 4 total regulars, all of which appear regularly on a majority of tours

AB: One (4 out of 4 tours), MW (4 out of 4), UTEOTW (3 out of 4), The Fly (2 out of 4), EBTTRT (1 out of 4), Zoo Station (1 out of 4), UV (1 out of 4) = 7 total regulars, of which only three appear regularly on a majority of tours, one on half of the tours, and three on just one tour.

I think it's with regards to diversity amongst regulars that U2387 has a real point. U2 stick to the same selections from JT, trotting out the opening four songs regularly. From Achtung, however, they draw from a wider selection of songs, even if the overall album representation per show from 1997 to now is fairly even with JT. Outside of JT's big four, U2 have only played one JT song enough times to break double figures, when RTSS was done at 35.6% of shows. Songs from the second side of JT have been played a grand total of SIXTEEN TIMES between 1997 and now (in fact, that's actually between 11 January 1990 and now!), while the second side of AB has given up 3 regulars, one of which has been a regular on all 4 tours between 1997 and now. Quite a stark comparison.

 

[nirniva]

STATS OVERLOAD AHEAD!

You weren't kidding.
Nice to see a statistical approach to the thread's premise, though.

 

[catlhere]

More TJT is always a good thing to me

 

[Blue Room]

I don't think it has anything to do with liking one album over the other. Most of it is what they feel works with the new material, the new staging and what they feel like playing (a lot of times this translates to what is easier for them to play and will require less rehearsal) and the themes of the staging and new songs and current events that fits the older songs. As a result of the technology and aesthetics of the staging I think that lends slightly to AB fitting the setlist better. I don't think its intentional or anything though. I'm sure the band haven't even analyzed it or thought about it.

Joshua Tree is my favorite U2 album, so more of it would be a great thing to me personally. But I don't think any of the problems the setlist has had this tour has anything to do with lack of JT songs or even on past tours. In fact I'm thankful a JT staple finally was dropped this tour, Bullet.

At least Running was a staple for a leg and a half on Vertigo. The only other songs besides Running and the typical staples that I think are worthy of staple status on 360 or any tours going forward would be One Tree Hill and maybe In God's Country (full band, not acoustic). Mothers is a great song, but is just special occassion worthy now and I think thats how the band sees it. Red Hill is never going to be done (unless its in snippet form, but thats not a big deal to me), so I don't even count that. Trip Through Your Wires would bring the show to a grinding halt IMO. I think it would be a setlist pacing killer. Kind of like An Cat Dubh was on Vertigo. (loved that they did An Cat Dubh and that I got to see it, but it killed the pacing of the show and I think Trip unfortunately would have a similiar effect ) Exit is a tough one. Like the song and it was great live, but its so dark I don't think it would fit a setlist any longer. I don't think Bono wants to do it either. They talked about on JT that Exit would bring them down and it would take a few songs to recover. While thats kind of cool from a moodiness perspective I don't think it fits what they are doing now or most likely where they are going in the future.

 

[U2387]

STATS OVERLOAD AHEAD!



No it wasn't. There was no Spanish Eyes on the Vertigo Tour.

Anyway, U2387 has an interesting point regarding frequency. Let's have a look at some statistics to see how it stacks up. I've got two sets of stats below. Firstly, the amount of songs from JT and AB played on average at concerts; I have added up how many times each song from each album was performed and divided it by total shows on the tour. Secondly, the percentage of concerts each song was performed at; I am defining a regular song as one played at more than half of a tour's shows.

POPMART
JT: 4.04 songs per show
AB: 4 songs per show

JT: Bullet, ISHFWILF, Streets, WOWY (all 100%), MOTD (4.3%)
AB: EBTTRT, MW, One, UTEOTW (all 100%)
Regulars: 4 vs 4

Result: JT wins by the smallest of margins. For all practical purposes, a tie.

ELEVATION

JT: 3.04 songs per show
AB: 3.46 songs per show

JT: Streets (100%), Bullet (99.1%), WOWY (75.2%), ISHFWILF (26.5%), IGC (2.7%)
AB: One (100%), UTEOTW (99.1%), MW (77.9%), The Fly (60.2%), EBTTRT (8.8%)
Regulars: 3 JT vs 4 AB

Result: AB is the clear winner. Not only does it win both songs-per-show and regulars, but its third most regularly played song was played more than JT's third. Plus, JT's 4th and 5th can't even equal a combined frequency of AB's fourth most regular song.

Stats do not include JT b-side Spanish Eyes, at 0.9% of shows.

VERTIGO
JT: 3.88 songs per show
AB: 3.16 songs per show

JT: Bullet (100%), Streets (100%), WOWY (78.8%), ISHFWILF (68.9%), RTSS (35.6%), OTH (3%), MOTD (1.5%)
AB: One (100%), The Fly (68.2%), Zoo Station (53%), Mysterious Ways (50.8%), UTEOTW (31.1%), WGRYWH (12.1%), LIB (0.8%)
Regulars: 4 JT vs 4 AB

Result: JT wins, decisively. Its ratio of songs per show is clearly superior, and its fourth most frequent song was more frequently played than even AB's second most frequent song. The only point where AB does better is that its sixth most frequently played song outdoes JT's sixth most frequently played song by a considerable margin.

360, LEGS 1-3 ONLY
JT: 2.97 songs per show
AB: 3.1 songs per show

JT: Streets (100%), WOWY (98.5%), ISHFWILF (94%), MOTD (4.5%)
AB: One (100%), UV (80.6%), MW (73.1%), UTEOTW (56.7%)
Regulars: 3 JT vs 4 AB

Result: AB wins. JT's second and third most frequent songs have been played more than AB's second and third, but the fact JT's fourth has barely been played while all four AB songs have been regulars swings things in AB's favour.

Stats do not include JT b-side Spanish Eyes, at 1.5% of shows.

DIVERSITY AMONGST REGULARS

JT: Streets (4 out of 4 tours), WOWY (4 out of 4), ISHFWILF (3 out of 4), Bullet (3 out of 4) = 4 total regulars, all of which appear regularly on a majority of tours

AB: One (4 out of 4 tours), MW (4 out of 4), UTEOTW (3 out of 4), The Fly (2 out of 4), EBTTRT (1 out of 4), Zoo Station (1 out of 4), UV (1 out of 4) = 7 total regulars, of which only three appear regularly on a majority of tours, one on half of the tours, and three on just one tour.

I think it's with regards to diversity amongst regulars that U2387 has a real point. U2 stick to the same selections from JT, trotting out the opening four songs regularly. From Achtung, however, they draw from a wider selection of songs, even if the overall album representation per show from 1997 to now is fairly even with JT. Outside of JT's big four, U2 have only played one JT song enough times to break double figures, when RTSS was done at 35.6% of shows. Songs from the second side of JT have been played a grand total of SIXTEEN TIMES between 1997 and now (in fact, that's actually between 11 January 1990 and now!), while the second side of AB has given up 3 regulars, one of which has been a regular on all 4 tours between 1997 and now. Quite a stark comparison.

I would just like to point out to everyone that Axver did this in the midst of his always thorough and accurate start of a tour leg reports!!

We're lucky to have you, my friend!!

Exactly!

Diversity amongst regulars is what I am getting at, and is most definitely the reason why my perception of JT is that its neglected when compared to AB. I've always acknowledged that the actual number of songs is close to even.