Is this tour frustrating you?

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This could be the problem though, they consider Pop and Popmart to be a failure. They probably don't want to make what they consider to be the same mistake again. They're scared to tour an album that has "supposedly" gotten a lukewarm reception in giant stadiums during a worldwide recession, particularly if they expect to continue this "worldwide" tour into 2010.
See when I say than fans seems to "forgive" very little thing that seems less "correct"?

U2 can sell out this 360º Tour in 2010 (and 2011) if they want, with or without an album to support it and whether we're in recession like these days or not.
 
This could be the problem though, they consider Pop and Popmart to be a failure. They probably don't want to make what they consider to be the same mistake again. They're scared to tour an album that has "supposedly" gotten a lukewarm reception in giant stadiums during a worldwide recession, particularly if they expect to continue this "worldwide" tour into 2010.

That could very well be why they've done things the way they have. However, even if the band thinks that's fair justification to go the way they have, it doesn't change the change the fact that it's wrong to leave a new album in the dust before it even got a fair shake at things.

I paid a pretty high price for my ticket and it was completely worth it. Nevertheless, it could have been more than simply that. I would have loved to see stuff like "MOFO" and the like, but omitting those songs was easily forgiven. What they have done (or not done) with NLOTH is harder to swallow, however.

U2 need to restructure the setlist. If not that, then they at least need to experiment on a few nights and replace some warhorses with never before played NLOTH songs. Try "White as Snow" in the place of "Stuck". Try "Stand Up Comedy" in the place of "Elevation". And, of course, just find some way to try "Fez" at least once. "Cedars" would be cool to see at some point too. They needn't keep these songs if they don't work, and there's absolutely no harm in at least giving them a go for once. They should just try. I don't think that's too much to ask.
 
See when I say than fans seems to "forgive" very little thing that seems less "correct"?

U2 can sell out this 360º Tour in 2010 (and 2011) if they want, with or without an album to support it and whether we're in recession like these days or not.

I didn't say I was forgiving or not forgiving. Just trying to consider different scenarios as to what might or might not go through their minds. I try to not crucify the band at every turn. For the past 28 years they have provided to me so much personal enjoyment that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, whether or not I agree with every decision they make.

But that's me. You have every right to feel the way you do. That's what makes everyone different.

FYI, Seville has been on sale for some time now and it's still not sold out.

That could very well be why they've done things the way they have. However, even if the band thinks that's fair justification to go the way they have, it doesn't change the change the fact that it's wrong to leave a new album in the dust before it even got a fair shake at things.

I'm not providing an opinion on whether it was right or wrong, just providing a take on the situation. I love the new album. I've missed Unknown Caller a lot in the shows that I've been in after it was dropped, it was one of my favorite songs live.

I'm still seriously considering bringing a sign to Las Vegas with "Unknown Caller" on it that hopefully they can see before they go into the stadium.
 
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I'm not providing an opinion on whether it was right or wrong, just providing a take on the situation. I love the new album. I've missed Unknown Caller a lot in the shows that I've been in after it was dropped, it was one of my favorite songs live.

I'm still seriously considering bringing a sign to Las Vegas with "Unknown Caller" on it that hopefully they can see before they go into the stadium.

I got that you were just giving your take on the situation. All I'm saying is that I think U2 are wrong to do things the way they have. Sorry if my response came off the wrong way. I completely agree that dropping UC was a bad move in so many ways. They could at least have replaced it with something new off of NLOTH. Instead they just brought 360 a little closer to being Elevation.
 
It really does seem simple: there's no reason to be playing Stuck and Elevation while 4 NLOTH songs sit on the shelf!

And actually far less reason to be playing Walk On. Fez-BB could triumphantly take that spot in the setlist!
 
It's not U2 that have changed so much, it's the fucking INTERNET!!!! I keep saying this, having instant access to every little teeny weeny piece of information/setlist/photo/Bono fart is taking the mystique of things. I've been a fan for centuries, back in the dim dark past I had to wait for 3 month old NMEs and Melody Makers to find out set lists, tour info, what Bono's mullet looked like.

Now if I so want to, I know instantly. And most of the time, I don't, don't read the set lists, don't follow the set list parties, I only read the whinging threads, they're fun :wink:

No..and this ^ :applaud:
 
Let me begin by saying I saw U2 at a recent 360 show and absolutely loved it. Despite the fact that I was able to predict almost the entire setlist and missed out on “Unknown Caller” (my favorite song off of NLOTH), I nevertheless had the time of my life seeing them. Frankly, they could play whatever they wish and chances are I’d still have the time of my life.

With that said, my opinion on the new tour as a whole is that it is not what it could be. My main frustration isn’t so much the lack of rarities as it is the lack of NEW material. Thus far, only 7 songs off of NLOTH have been played, and one of those seems to have bitten the dust for the moment.

Let’s look back to the POP era. While I personally love Pop, the mainsteam opinion regarding it is generally that it is “that album that they had to live down”. While NLOTH hasn’t exactly blown the mainstream away, it has fared better than Pop did in the public opinion. With that said, how about we take a look at the average Popmart setlist. Despite the fact that Popmart was supporting a generally disliked album, each setlist nevertheless usually featured up to 9 songs off of Pop. Not only that, but there’s also the fact that all but one song off of Pop was at least attempted within the first leg of the tour. Popmart, as it should have, supported Pop.

Now, let’s compare this with the U2360 tour which, like Popmart, is a stadium tour. So far, 7 songs from NLOTH have been attempted. One of these songs, “Unknown Caller”, seems to be gone for the moment. That leaves 4 NLOTH songs that have not even been attempted yet. Look, I don’t buy into the whole “entitlement” thing, but if honest fans pay to go see U2 on a tour supporting NLOTH, then they deserve better than this.

As I said earlier, I love U2, and they have my love almost no matter what. But this is the tour for NLOTH, so they need to play it. Even if they don’t keep songs, they should at least attempt them. This is the only chance for new material to shine. It’s really as simple as that in my opinion

Well put, though one could suggest that since Pop, the band has new fans who have their must haves, like Vertigo, BD, and maybe Elevation - so unless you ADD songs, there is less room on the setlist.

Frustrated is too strong of a word, as I am anxioius to see the Claw in person, but its a bit of a bummer so far for a few reasons as I read setlists:

Three recent shows with not one setlist change -- ugg, could be weak markets but come on, really?

Songs played relative to what was rumored to be rehearsed and the B-Man suggesting publlicly hints at back catalog -- probably my fault for thinking everything that B says comes true.

Comparison to Vertigo -- it seems like last time out that shows varied with 2 and maybe 3 songs PER night -- one town got Gloria and something else and so on. That does not seem to be the case.

Lastly, no SUC yet -- maybe Vegas, but that song, IMO, calls for a funky arrangement right next to Crazy Remix.

My lame post and thoughts aside, I'm still going and plan to win a bagazillion dollars at a Craps Table!
 
to those that completely throw out the "it's the internet" argument, i ask you to try stepping away and see if it changes things. during the Vertigo Tour, there was a period where i wasn't as stable financially and had to cut some costs, and the internet was the first thing to go. i went into my first show really not knowing hardly anything about the setlists, other than a couple things i read in magazines. let me just say that it was one of the best shows of my life (Chicago, 5-7-05). funny thing is, a couple weeks later, i got internet again only to see that the people that follow the shows every night called the 5-7 show one of the weakest of the tour. i couldn't believe what i was reading.

fast forward 4 years and i'm still kicking myself for following the setlists every night for the 360 tour. i would have enjoyed the Chicago show so much more if i hadn't been dwelling in the disappointment that they didn't play YBR after reading about rehearsals the night before.
 
I feel there are pieces of an exemplary tour to be found somewhere in this mess, but every time U2 gets closer, they stop digging. Take TUF, UC, Stay, UTEOTW, and YBR and you have an incredible midsection. Take two of those and add ATYCLB tracks and you have a lukewarm miasma. Plus, they absolutely refuse to do anything new with the encore, as if the current trio they have is untouchable, unprecedented brilliance.

Does this frustrate me? Not really. I'm not spending any money on it. Plus, it's out of my control. There are countless everyday occurrences that I CAN control, so I choose to focus on those.
 
:up:

if they at least attempted to play zooropa live in 1993 then songs like SUC and FEZ should be no problem.

It is like you said not an issue of a great night out, that is provided. There is just something missing and playing more new songs live instead of dropping them is one of them.

this is by far the tour with the least played songs of a new record for U2 and that is something that is difficult to understand when they kept talking how proud they were of this record. Maybe they are unsure about its quality or the livetransition isn't working in their opinion or something.

Yes, they should definitely be playing more off of NLOTH.

Just by way of interjection, I in no way buy this, the first Boston set list had a tremendous amount of push back from alot of my security co workers. They were saying that people come to hear the hits, like they do for other old bands like AC DC. I tried to explain to them that U2 is not that kind of band, and that while I love AC/DC, their goal is not to make their best, most relevant album every time out. U2's still is, and the numbers prove it, even NLOTH was #1 in every industrialized country at one point.

I am just saying that the above attitude maybe prevails among some casual fans as well, and so U2 is weary of playing more NLOTH. Strange, as its never held them back before, but I have 2 theories:

1.)Lets compare Pop and NLOTH, 2 albums that were not up to U2 standards for sales:

Popmart had a clear concept and stage set that fit in with the decadent, consumer mad world with a disco twist theme that was the album. This was not something you could change mid tour, so U2 had to go out there and play the songs from Pop. This is why leg 1 of Pop was so awkward, they couldn't just drop what did not work as easily.

The Claw, as already noted, is incredibly innovative, no one has done this before, an in the round stadium show in 360 degrees. At the same time, like alot of people have said, there is no real thematic connection from the claw to NLOTH. It is simply the Elevation/Vertigo round with a GA pit concept dressed up very creatively and super sized to allow for lights and PA to be rigged. The tour was designed like this, just have the stage and call it 360, because they will be promoting more than one record with it(SOA). So theory 1 is they find it alot easier to drop or not play at all songs from NLOTH because of this. The album did not hit as big as expected, so they drop UC because it resonates least and they don't bother risking it with Cedars or spending time nailing down fez-being born.

2.)U2 is legitimately worried about their reputation and the hits, real or perceived, it has taken in recent years. I was only an infant when JT came out, so please anyone who has been a U2 fan much longer than me here correct me if I am wrong at all in what I am about to say. I don't remember any time period, either from my own relatively short fan experience or from reading back through U2's history, when I have heard as many negative things said about them by so many. Of course, most of the public and critics still are fans, but less so than before.

Jim Derogatis of Chicago(sp?) Tribune hit them big on Vertigo tour, so much so that Larry had an interview with him to set things straight! Mainstream, widely read columnists and politicians(a serious candidate for US Senate) have been knocking Bono's political activism as hypocrisy, pampered celebrity bull shit, etc. Completely ignoring the fact that Bono devotes alot of his time and money to the causes he believes in, and more importantly, that he knows more about politics, economics, health, etc than any 10 soap box hippies combined and most politicians! U2 also took alot of criticism for doing what every international business does and basing operations in the most tax favorable climate. This move did nothing to set back Bono's causes, did not in anyway represent a retreat from his previous values, as U2, unlike many other bands who do the same thing, have never pretended to be anything other than BUSINESSMEN. This was true even back when they considered themselves punk rockers.

Plus, alot of kids my age, who seemed to like U2 from 2001-2005 about, took a big turn against them the last few years. I don't know if they don't get Bono, or they think U2 is too big/business oriented, too old, or they just can't concentrate and have to be for the next "big thing"(coldplay, killers, etc). In short, it was "cool" to like U2 for a period of time in the 2000's, does not seem to be so true anymore.

They always seemed to be universally loved, now, there seems to be a lot of criticizing, especially related to the 360 tour. Hence-------------

Theory 2: U2 is playing it safe because of this-go with the part of the back catalog that has had success, which means no Zooropa or Pop, and a SHITLOAD of ATYCLB.

I think both of the above are reasonable, though I obviously do not have any more of a clue than the next person here why the relatively minor attention paid to NLOTH on this tour. Could be these, could be anything, really.

What I think is unreasonable, and what I can not understand for the life of me is that, if U2 truly feels for some reason that they can not play 8 or 9 songs per night of Horizon, why they have to play 5 off ATYCLB. You would think they would reach back for songs off better albums like War, UF, JT and AB. Or for proven crowd favorites like I will Follow and Out of Control.

Just imagine, 2 ATYCLB, and the other 3 spots it occupied having cuts from the albums mentioned above! You could hear DM, Surrender, ASOH, Bad, Wire, One Tree Hill, IGC, RTSS, Trip thru, Real Thing, LIB, 2 hearts, it is endless. At least do this if they refuse to play something from POP.

Wow, thats the longest I have gone in a while! Sorry and thanks for reading!
 
Let me begin by saying I saw U2 at a recent 360 show and absolutely loved it. Despite the fact that I was able to predict almost the entire setlist and missed out on “Unknown Caller” (my favorite song off of NLOTH), I nevertheless had the time of my life seeing them. Frankly, they could play whatever they wish and chances are I’d still have the time of my life.

With that said, my opinion on the new tour as a whole is that it is not what it could be. My main frustration isn’t so much the lack of rarities as it is the lack of NEW material. Thus far, only 7 songs off of NLOTH have been played, and one of those seems to have bitten the dust for the moment.

Let’s look back to the POP era. While I personally love Pop, the mainsteam opinion regarding it is generally that it is “that album that they had to live down”. While NLOTH hasn’t exactly blown the mainstream away, it has fared better than Pop did in the public opinion. With that said, how about we take a look at the average Popmart setlist. Despite the fact that Popmart was supporting a generally disliked album, each setlist nevertheless usually featured up to 9 songs off of Pop. Not only that, but there’s also the fact that all but one song off of Pop was at least attempted within the first leg of the tour. Popmart, as it should have, supported Pop.

Now, let’s compare this with the U2360 tour which, like Popmart, is a stadium tour. So far, 7 songs from NLOTH have been attempted. One of these songs, “Unknown Caller”, seems to be gone for the moment. That leaves 4 NLOTH songs that have not even been attempted yet. Look, I don’t buy into the whole “entitlement” thing, but if honest fans pay to go see U2 on a tour supporting NLOTH, then they deserve better than this.

As I said earlier, I love U2, and they have my love almost no matter what. But this is the tour for NLOTH, so they need to play it. Even if they don’t keep songs, they should at least attempt them. This is the only chance for new material to shine. It’s really as simple as that in my opinion

:up:
 
This is a great discussion with a lot of excellent points. I have to say I also fall into the "frustrated" camp, but reading this thread has helped me focus my feelings down to one point: I don't feel like the band has a REAL relationship with its FANS. In fact, I think it's straight up divorced from its fans.

Now before you freak out, let me explain.

When I'm not obsessively following U2, I follow Nine Inch Nails. And when I look at what Trent Reznor does for his fans, I can't help but feel like I wish U2 did the same. I hear the whole "the internet destroys mystique" point of view, but somehow Trent and co. have figured out a way to use the internet to maximum awesomeness. For instance, every member of the recent NIN band has a twitter page, where they communicate like actual flesh and blood people, talking about their interests and responding to fans DIRECTLY. Whenever an issue with the band or an issue the band cares about comes up, Trent's on the NIN forum speaking DIRECTLY to fans, writing shit himself, such as when he wanted to help his dying friend, Eric, get cancer treatment. He has a relationship with the unofficial fan sites, too, posting links to cool things they put up. He's done multiple Q&As with questions directly from fan, such as this one with Digg:

An Interview with Trent Reznor - Digg Dialogg

And another one because he didn't think the first one answered enough fan questions:

Fans Q & A With Trent Reznor. on Vimeo

I could go into the whole Year Zero ARG thing, but take a look for yourself:

Year Zero Case Study

He posts up full performances of songs from shows, free of charge:

Nine Inch Nails on Vimeo

He lets fans mess with the multi-tracks of songs in Garageband and then post them up on Remix - remix.nin.com. And the list goes on and on and on...

Okay, enough Trent love, this is a U2 forum...

My point is, I love U2 but I don't feel a part of them like I used to. It's the little things that kind of mess with me. Like the fact that I feel like every U2.com video doesn't feature the band, unless it's trying to sell the 360 stage. Or that Bono and Edge will visit the space center and chat for an hour about nothing, but don't have time for a fan Q&A. Or that the band doesn't learn a few more songs to really vary up the set lists. I know that sounds dick, but again, going back to NIN, on this last tour, they played pretty much every song in the their catalogue, constantly practicing between tours and sound checking the day of the show just to keep things fresh, playing B-sides, covers, ancient album cuts, etc.

I know I sound like a total downer, but at the end of the day, despite all this, my first love is still U2 and will fight a man if they diss my band (and believe me, I have plenty of friends who trash them). But I have to be honest, and say that I don't feel like the band really has a direct connection with their fans. In fact, I think they've been neglectful of their fans. I mean, I can understand why they'd never want to look at anything on Interference, with people as harsh as myself:lol:, but I'd like to think that maybe they visit the site every once in a while. Sadly, I'm convinced they don't. Ever.

I know there are flaws in my thoughts. I'm rambling at this point. So, uh, anyways... Blame it all on Trent!
 
well, at least they played Your blue room again which actually surprised me because I thought this would be dropped :up:
 
I wonna hear Unknown Caller again, what was the deal with dropping that? I think Edge's guitar at the end sounds brilliant!

Regards to the setlists or encore, I posted in the setlist thread, something U2 could do to keep it interesting:

Night 1

Encore
20. Ultraviolet
21. Wake Up Dead Man
22. All I Want Is You You
23. Moment Of Surrender

Night 2

Encore
20. The Fly
21. Please
22. Love Is Blindness
23. 40

Night 3

Encore
20. Miss Sarajevo
21. The First Time
22. Love Rescue Me
23. Kite

for example. But maybe what would be even better is some songs from NLOTH!
 
I'm still seriously considering bringing a sign to Las Vegas with "Unknown Caller" on it that hopefully they can see before they go into the stadium.

Do it, but there wont be any point. It has to be all programmed in well in advance because of the screen interaction. It's not a "free slot", if you like....:|
 
After 9 pages I am now officially frustrated by this thread. As the old saying goes, "you pays your money, you takes your chance". What most people seem to forget round here is that the majority of the crowd will only be attending ONE concert, not the four, five, six, seven, eight that the loudest moaners here are.

If Live Nation intended us to be attending multiple concerts each, the ticket prices would be far more reasonable. The 360 Tour is not a charity, it is a money-making enterprise and as such, the key to profit is to appeal to the widest audience possible. This financial bias may offend or alienate the hardcore U2 groupie but at the end of the day, the Live Nation deal is about selling the most expensive tickets to as many people as possible. Many of the moaners here have already admitted they will only ever purchase GA tickets, which as they are not the most expensive, again rules them out of Live Nation's preferred demographic.

I am not attacking hardcore fans, nor am I setting out to offend those who would like to see some setlist variations, merely trying to rationalise the argument and give a true reason for the source of your frustrations. I personally can't help but feel the Live Nation tie-in has hurt this tour and the band, but to throw another two cliches at you, business is business and money is the root of all evil....
 
Do it, but there wont be any point. It has to be all programmed in well in advance because of the screen interaction. It's not a "free slot", if you like....:|

Well, that's why I want them to see it before they go in the stadium. I realize they'd have to set up for it. I don't think they program anything day's in advance of a show.
 
I wonna hear Unknown Caller again, what was the deal with dropping that? I think Edge's guitar at the end sounds brilliant!

Regards to the setlists or encore, I posted in the setlist thread, something U2 could do to keep it interesting:

Night 1

Encore
20. Ultraviolet
21. Wake Up Dead Man
22. All I Want Is You You
23. Moment Of Surrender

Night 2

Encore
20. The Fly
21. Please
22. Love Is Blindness
23. 40

Night 3

Encore
20. Miss Sarajevo
21. The First Time
22. Love Rescue Me
23. Kite

for example. But maybe what would be even better is some songs from NLOTH!

Except there are no Nights 1 2 and 3. Everything since NY is a Night 1.
 
Why can't U2 be more like NIN?!

Faking the same angst since 1989? Why can't they widdle their fanbase down to about 1/10 of it's size and give me a one on one interview on the internetz? WHY?!





























That being said this week I spoke to a lot of non-internet diehards(yes they do exist) and they are :drool: over the Dallas and Houston shows this week.

Makes you wonder...:hmm:
 
Why can't U2 be more like NIN?!

Faking the same angst since 1989? Why can't they widdle their fanbase down to about 1/10 of it's size and give me a one on one interview on the internetz? WHY?!

Why can't U2 be more like U2 in 1984 when they were sincere and made fantastic music :wink:
 
Why can't U2 be more like U2 in 1984 when they were sincere and made fantastic music :wink:
I won't disillusion you then by telling you when I saw U2 play in 1984, the crowd expected and got a Red Rocks II show, cos that was the only live footage any of us had seen, and that during Party Girl, the crowd launched itself straight into the "oi, oi, oi, oi" chant as if we were all in Denver.

Spontaneity FTW :lol:
 
I know right?! Where's the fucking mullet and white flag? Bono sold out when he put that flag down.

Wrong: He sold out with the sentence "I thought there were enough tears in this song" - WOWY Paris 1987 after the teargas "explosion".

It all went downhill during and after that moment:hmm:
 
I won't disillusion you then by telling you when I saw U2 play in 1984, the crowd expected and got a Red Rocks II show, cos that was the only live footage any of us had seen, and that during Party Girl, the crowd launched itself straight into the "oi, oi, oi, oi" chant as if we were all in Denver.

Spontaneity FTW :lol:

So you are basicly saying that internet can be put off the blamelist :wink:
 
All I can say about the stagnant setlists are that I'm glad I was at Chicago 2 for my only show this year. We got UTEOTW, YBR, Unknown Caller still hadn't been dropped, no Mysterious Ways, Stay instead of Stuck acoustic, and the 4 songs from the new album were still opening the show, which I liked. Plus UF and Ultraviolet were a thrill to hear live for the first time as well.

Still doesn't compare to getting Electric Co, Gloria, The Ocean, The First Time, WGRYWH, Crumbs from your table and Bad as a closer like I had on the Vertigo tour.
 
the days of decent discussion around these parts are possibly coming to an end IMO...:sad:
shame really because this had the potential to be a decent thread....
 
Really? Come on... This thread was designed for one purpose only.

maybe it's just over my head, but it seemed to me that the frustration angle could have been interesting, but like all "interesting/potentially controversial" threads on here they get hijacked by the usual suspects...

Just seems a bit daft that these people apparently have too much in their lives to care about internet setlists, but as soon as there's any sniff of a thread about setlists they poll up and take over...

Ah well. The Unknown Caller thread was good for a while...
 
I have already set myself as a "moaner" not only of the setlist, but of the whole show concept (or lack of it) as well.

But, focusing on the setlist, some users, in these 10 pages, have already presented some alternatives that are veeeeeeeery much possible for the band to make. U2 doesn't change because they don't have that will.

a) No one needs, in 2009, 4 songs from ATYCLB in one setlist. Why not switching "Stuck in a Moment" by "White As Snow"? Why not removing "Elevation" from the middle set and including "Stand Up Comedy" or "Being Born" earlier or later in the set? Only this would represent two more songs from NLOTH.

b) No WOWY anymore. At least like this. AIWIY can do that job better these days and still there's a connection between "Ultraviolet" and MOS.

c) The band is happy with playing "Ultraviolet", okay. "Breathe" is the worst opener in more than 20 years. Why not moving it to the encore? I can imagine Bono singing it with the suspended micro and balancing himself during the solo... That's just another example...

d) I thought the encore was the space for some "jamming" and for some freedom (except when you have a rigid show concept like in Zoo Tv or Popmart). So, why has the encore have to be the exact same one for a whole tour? Those rehearsed songs like "Drowning Man" or the remix version of EBTTRT could've appeared here... just once.

e) After the initial promotional GOYB performances, everyone was expecting something really creative, outside of the plain rock clichéd performance. That's what we've been given. Plus, this was a natural show opener - with that intro, which is very good - ...but it's not in real life.

These are just examples of how things could work, but they don't.
 
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