Alternative View of the 360 Tour

[kohoutek]

kohoutek, you've been BVS'd!

Wow. Does that hurt?

 

[kohoutek]

Good discussion here, and I'll try to address a few more points that have been raised.

To the person who apologized in advance for possibly being redundant, I don't think you were, and if anyone has been, it's been me

Sort of to sum up some of the recent posts, I do think a lot of people are content to go into the inner circle and not necessarily see the band. They're there for the atmosphere and experience. That's great, but we definitely go to see the band. I think for some people these things are a "party" (and I'm not implying to the poster married to a 5' 2" lady that that's the case for them, though there's nothing wrong with that), but it's never been like that for me. I am there to pay intense attention to the performance - the visuals (including actually seeing the band as people, not just as distant figures), the sound, the feeling. I am there to get something from the performance, including that feedback loop between the artist and the audience, that I can't get from a DVD.

 

[DubbalinGirl]

I must say those do sound like crappy seats for $250. My seats at Gillette 2 were the same price level and they were great. We were in the 29th row on Edge's side and we could see the whole band throughout the entire show, even when they were on the bridge on Adam's side..

Me too...I got through in the first minute of the first pre-sale and was 9 rows up on either side each night. One thing with this band, I've never been screwed with fan club seats, they have always, always been the best in the house...I'm talking 5 tours' experience now. I'd be curious to see when the OP got his $250 seats and were they fan club seats? If they truly were behind the stage, then there's no way they should be $250.

To the original poster, I am not bashing you here, you bring up a relevant discussion. I think part of the issue with them not using the outer circle as much is they took a beating for it from some asshole at the Boston Globe. He said it made the show feel disjointed, the band less together and he "lost" members of the band for significant periods of time(must be blind, again, you will not get better site lines in a stadium). As a result, U2 used the circle much less the 2nd Boston show, it was very noticeable!

Slight digression, but I think the Globe review and the band's reaction to it was precisely why the second night at Foxboro was a noticeably better, tighter show. That outer circle does nothing for band cohesiveness or sharing more with fans other than those immediately on the rails around it. The dude sitting in the nosebleeds or at the other end of the stadium doesn't feel any more "touched" by the band when they leave the mainstage.

I dunno where I stand on GA to be honest. I've been GA several times in Europe and you pretty much suck it up at some place like Slane and just be happy you're there. But my last show in 2005 was on the rail and all over the pit in Hartford, buzzed in through the lottery about 1/2 hour before showtime. We had room for a ton more people in there and I was roaming about at will. I'm 5'10" though and hardly ever have a problem seeing over people. While it was a phenomenal experience, I've done it and was fine going back to the pricy seats again so I could just show up when I want and sit where I'm assigned. That just may be old age though.

 

[kohoutek]

Me too...I got through in the first minute of the first pre-sale and was 9 rows up on either side each night. One thing with this band, I've never been screwed with fan club seats, they have always, always been the best in the house...I'm talking 5 tours' experience now. I'd be curious to see when the OP got his $250 seats and were they fan club seats? If they truly were behind the stage, then there's no way they should be $250.

Fanclub seats. Breathe group. And I'll preface this with the fact that I go to lots of shows, usually small clubs, but sometimes arenas and amphitheaters, and I know how to get good seats and the processes for ticket drops, etc, so not naive about this. For whatever reason, the Raleigh on sale (and, heck, official show announcement) was a bit delayed. Out of curiosity, I got onto TM right as the access for the Breathe group started for other shows that went on sale before Raleigh, just to see what sort of seats I could get. I was happy with what I was seeing. When Raleigh Breathe finally went onsale, I jumped right on, got section 2, row S. "What? That's almost behind the stage!". Let them go, then got row V, and finally took row W.

The seats were truly behind the stage - obviously not directly back, but our seating position was about 2:00, behind Larry's drum riser. THEN Live Nation/TM started dropping huge numbers of tickets - more direct side or side front views lower down about a week before the show. I really do feel cheated.

 

[alison0313]

I'm 5'3 and worried about my GA ticket for months. We arrived after 6PM and had the chance to enter to pit, but we opted for a spot on the rail directly behind Red Zone 1 (? edge's side). Because RZ isn't packed there was a huge gap between me and the back of people's heads (7 feet maybe). My view was never obstructed, I had a clear view of most of the main stage, the screen, and the walkway and bridge.

If they continue to tour in this format GA or RZ will be my only choice. My expensive 7th row seats were no better than the balcony seats I had during the Vertigo tour.

 

[telephone88]

I did GA for 3 shows and cheap cheap seats for the rest. I wouldn't even consider paying for those top price tickets. They are more times than not gonna disappoint. You have paid so much and if they aren't just absolutely perfect, you are gonna be sour. Try the cheapys next time. Will be all GA for me next year with perhaps one Red Zone treat. Don't know what your best option is next time around. Only other thing I can add is why oh why did you spend so much cash on seats that you were skeptical about when viewing them on the chart?

I was in literally the highest seats in the Nou Camp for the second Barcelona show which i'm sure is the tallest stadium they have played this tour. Had a ball. And all for 30 quid? Bargain. No way would I have paid 5 times as much just to be a tier lower.

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[Roland of Gilead]

Hey alison, sounds like a great plan. I really don't want to take my daughter inside the pit. At 9 and just under 5 feet, I can't see how the pit could be fun with me worrying about space, sight and all that. I was thinking outer rail behind red zone on Adam's side. The Edge's side always has a bigger draw. Grab her a rail spot on Adam's side just before the opening act. Should work out.

 

[kohoutek]

I did GA for 3 shows and cheap cheap seats for the rest. I wouldn't even consider paying for those top price tickets. They are more times than not gonna disappoint. You have paid so much and if they aren't just absolutely perfect, you are gonna be sour. Try the cheapys next time. Will be all GA for me next year with perhaps one Red Zone treat. Don't know what your best option is next time around. Only other thing I can add is why oh why did you spend so much cash on seats that you were skeptical about when viewing them on the chart?

I was in literally the highest seats in the Nou Camp for the second Barcelona show which i'm sure is the tallest stadium they have played this tour. Had a ball. And all for 30 quid? Bargain. No way would I have paid 5 times as much just to be a tier lower.

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The reason I bought those is that, while I wasn't enthralled with them, they were officially the best available at the time of the presale. I assumed (as I felt I had a right to) that the better seats had gone with the Horizon group (and gone quicker than they did for other shows in larger markets - assumed it was due to this being a Saturday show with travellers), and that what was left over for Breathe (and later for Boots) was just not that great. I also assumed that the general onsale would result in a quick sellout of the remaining seats and that the seats offered would be no better than what I could get in the presale. I tried for the general onsale (right at 10:00 AM), and found that the tickets available were no better, so that proved correct. However, later the ticket drops did make better seats available. As for buying cheaper seats, that's not an option for me as my whole point is I want to be pretty close and actually be able to see the band on the stage.

That continues to be my point. It is possible to get stunning vantage points of the claw with this tour. I'm not there to see the claw. I'm there to see U2, and not on a video screen. Options for doing that with this setup are extremely limited, even compared with other stadium shows I've seen.

 

[kohoutek]

I'm 5'3 and worried about my GA ticket for months. We arrived after 6PM and had the chance to enter to pit, but we opted for a spot on the rail directly behind Red Zone 1 (? edge's side). Because RZ isn't packed there was a huge gap between me and the back of people's heads (7 feet maybe). My view was never obstructed, I had a clear view of most of the main stage, the screen, and the walkway and bridge.

If they continue to tour in this format GA or RZ will be my only choice. My expensive 7th row seats were no better than the balcony seats I had during the Vertigo tour.

Considered that, but didn't want to subject the 13 year old to the packing/shoving that goes on. A lot of people behind you. Wife, 16 year-old, and I can handle that, but not sure the 13 year old is quite ready. I'll concede that's a constraining factor. As I've pointed out, if I attended with some of my mates, all of whom are taller than 5' 2", I could have stayed in the inner circle and been fine. But this was a family affair, and my ladies are all, well, I call them arm rests

 

[telephone88]

That continues to be my point. It is possible to get stunning vantage points of the claw with this tour. I'm not there to see the claw. I'm there to see U2, and not on a video screen. Options for doing that with this setup are extremely limited, even compared with other stadium shows I've seen.

This 360 thing is more show than concert. The Claw is bigger than U2 and I kinda think U2 and LiveNation recognize that fact with their pricing. Any seat is a good seat this tour if you are there to take it all in (Claw and all) but if you are there for a concert then all but those few hundred stunning seats in the stadium are not gonna give you your fill.

Those Barcelona seats I pictured above would have been absolute shockers for any other end stage setup, the band really were tiny. But the Claw itself kinda eliminates that distance and this will be the case for many but you are a purist which means there is a lot more room for disappointment for you with this setup than for most other people. You see the distance between you and the band, everybody else thinks 'look how close the Claw is'

 

[kohoutek]

This 360 thing is more show than concert. The Claw is bigger than U2 and I kinda think U2 and LiveNation recognize that fact with their pricing. Any seat is a good seat this tour if you are there to take it all in (Claw and all) but if you are there for a concert then all but those few hundred stunning seats in the stadium are not gonna give you your fill.

Those Barcelona seats I pictured above would have been absolute shockers for any other end stage setup, the band really were tiny. But the Claw itself kinda eliminates that distance and this will be the case for many but you are a purist which means there is a lot more room for disappointment for you with this setup than for most other people. You see the distance between you and the band, everybody else thinks 'look how close the Claw is'

You hit the nail right on the head! You should be my editor

 

[wendynz]

I am only 5'4" and I only ever get GA tickets my husband is 6' so he never has any probelms. I find the atmosphere in GA great plus you can dance which sometimes you can't do in the seats. I do however bring my 'concert shoes' with me which are wedges which have a high heel and this makes does make a difference. I also try to get to a rail. At Milano I was at the rail of one of the legs and it gives you something to lean on and you don't get jostled so much. Sometimes you may get a better view further back in GA rather than closer as I find alot of the tall people try to push to the front. In New Zealand all of the large bands play in stadiums rather than indoor arenas and I find the atmosphere much better in a stadium where there are large crowds.

 

[subnet]

i didnt pay for a $250 ticket because I am a diehard fan and have presale tickets.....yet, in all due respect, you could live in Toronto and be a diehard fan of the Maple Leafs and have to fork over $450 a ticket to see some hockey in the best seats in the house. So in perspective, $250 isn't all that bad. It sucks more if you are from a small town and never experience anything else...entertainment is expensive these days so

The good thing with the U2 360 tour is that you can easily stand in GA at the end of the line, and show up and stand right in front of the soundbooth, experience a great show and be in the best place for audio, have room to move around and have some drinks, and be within 5 feet of a portapotty in any second.

 

[U2387]

I don't feel at all bashed by you or anyone else, even if they intend to bash me. I really did post this to get a sense of what others thought knowing full well that I might provoke a few folks. Your comments were actually extremely helpful, and you and I are very close to the same wavelength. Specifically, one thing I did not mention (because I did not so much want to also review the performance in this thread, but I will now - see what you've done?! ) was that the band, especially Bono, seemed distracted at best, if not downright bothered by something. I'm not a multi-show per tour person, but I have seen these guys a few times, and they just seemed to be somewhere else. I'm not seeing too many posts anywhere to this effect, but most of my friends noticed it. I mean, it's to the point that I'm actually worried about Bono and the band. Maybe it's nothing. After about 7 songs (well, starting with Unforgettable Fire, among my favorites of the night), the show got better, but it was more like Bono was trying hard to enjoy himself rather than actually doing so. More to your point, I really like the new album but am not such a fan of ATYCLB, so wasn't thrilled with the setlist on that front. But I really didn't expect to be. MLK was a nice surprise, as was Ultraviolet (and loved the jacket - I must make one for myself!). But, yeah, beyond my incesant complaining about my seats, the show was good. That's the problem - it was just good, and I'm used to "transcendant" and "life changing" from U2 (ok, a little unfair to expect, but that's what they've always delivered). Had I felt the fire and passion of past tours, I'd have gotten over my crappy seats. By the way, I am not making this up, one of the Stones shows I saw was the same stadium (Carter-Finley), and the seats were almost exactly the same (last night was section 2 row W; Stones in 89 was section 23 row V - directly across from the seats I had last night). Somehow, the intensity and energy level from the Stones, as well as the size and position of their stage, made it great. I felt part of the Stones show, whereas last night it was more like TV. A damn fancy TV.

Thank you, and I think we are close to the same wavelength as well!

I greatly enjoyed my shows; think ultimately, the difference in our experiences can be explained alot by the seats. Gillette stadium has plenty of flaws, not one of the nicer ones in my opinion, but I had no problem with my seat.

However, you bring up something that I was not mentioning until someone else did as well!! I felt the same way as you regarding whether this was transcendent compared to my Vertigo tour experience and Somerville theatre on NLOTH promo tour. I, like you, can not explain for the life of me what it was that seemed "off" about the band or the experience, but something just was not there. I think its ultimately the awkwardness of the set list (ATYCLB heavy)compared to the stage design, but still not sure.

Either way, it was noticeable that the whole "transcendent experience" normally associated with U2 concerts was not there for alot of people. I had never seen so many people leave a show before the encore as I did at Boston 2, and that is in the city with arguably the best U2 fans in America.

 

[U2387]

In agreement with you here. I personally enjoy hearing the new stuff live, but it does have to be balanced by a deeper setlist. I think I've seen a couple posts indicating U2 needs to play longer now to do justice to their catalog. I think U2 are in good enough physical condition and young enough to handle a 2 1/2 hour set. They're about the same age the Stones were when I saw them at Carter Finley back in 89. The Stones played 2 1/2 hours and did 27 songs. No reason U2 can't/shouldn't do that. Springsteen still does a good 2 hour 45 min energetic set, and he's 60.

Absolutely agree here!

They can play a little longer for sure. Drop some ATYCLB, and add in some of the songs the poster was talking about(well except Bullet, that I feel is getting a much needed tour off, bring it back next time around!).

25-27 songs was not uncommon on the Vertigo Tour, especially in the stadium shows where Vertigo was repeated in the encore. I know U2 traditionally sticks right around 22-23(have forever) but given the catalog and the fact that the guys are all still in good shape, I think its time for longer shows.

The fact that they are playing stadiums and greatly enjoying it should help too. Less gigs, more time in between them to rest, etc.

This is a good idea, and a feasible one.

 

[BVS]

I think those that are calling for longer shows are usually people who haven't tried singing for two hours straight.

 

[badu2fan]

I think those that are calling for longer shows are usually people who haven't tried singing for two hours straight.

Not sure why this is a problem as so many bands play longer then 2 hours. 20 songs if you take out the covers is too few. Plus so many from recent album ATYCLB is bummer for folks that have already seen that tour.
On the location of seats I totally agree that you should not have to worry that for $250 you will be seeing more arse then face. All the top dollar tickets should be stage forward and especially fan club tickets. The late drops of better tickets is not fair to fan club.
I blame this more on Live Nation then U2 as they are the money gathers and would not give a damn about a fan.
Another reason why not to be pressured into re upping membership just to buy pre sale tickets. Live Nation SUcks just like ticketBastard.
I still beleive Zoo and Pop where more visually stimulating and the B stage jams are better then long walks around the loop with a little boy IMO
THe claw is a great concept but put it in center of field and have the entire stage rotate and let everyone get a nice view of the boys. They could do it slow enough that Bono wouldn't get dizzy.

 

[BVS]

Not sure why this is a problem as so many bands play longer then 2 hours.

So many? Really? Besides Bruce can you name a few?

I know PJ used to but not so much these days...

 

[kohoutek]

Not sure why this is a problem as so many bands play longer then 2 hours. 20 songs if you take out the covers is too few. Plus so many from recent album ATYCLB is bummer for folks that have already seen that tour.
On the location of seats I totally agree that you should not have to worry that for $250 you will be seeing more arse then face. All the top dollar tickets should be stage forward and especially fan club tickets. The late drops of better tickets is not fair to fan club.
I blame this more on Live Nation then U2 as they are the money gathers and would not give a damn about a fan.
Another reason why not to be pressured into re upping membership just to buy pre sale tickets. Live Nation SUcks just like ticketBastard.
I still beleive Zoo and Pop where more visually stimulating and the B stage jams are better then long walks around the loop with a little boy IMO
THe claw is a great concept but put it in center of field and have the entire stage rotate and let everyone get a nice view of the boys. They could do it slow enough that Bono wouldn't get dizzy.

I COMPLETELY blame, primarily, the promoter (Live Nation), and, secondarily, ticketmaster. I have no doubt whatsoever about the following:

1) U2's "fanclub" is a ticket selling tool, not a fanclub (compare it to REM's and you'll know what I'm talking about). I'm not sure they have much say in what goes on there.

2) LiveNation and Ticketmaster adopt the following policy (which I believe varies by market): have presales. Lots of them for all sorts of reasons. Of course, the U2 "fanclub" (I suspect LiveNation helps run this, too). Then one for season ticket holders. One for people with certain credit cards. One for people who bought tickets to Celine Dion two years ago. MOST of these involve casual fans. Even the U2 fanclub is something that is well enough known that people join just to get tickets. Self-included. After all, that's all it's really good for (well, the CD was fun). When running these presales, the strategy is "sell these people decent tickets. not really good, just decent. oh, throw a few really good ones out so people will think they have a shot at those, but hold back on most of them." The reason they do this is some of the seats are marginal and might be harder to sell later. Conversely, by holding better seats for ticket drops, they'll have an easier time selling those at a later date to someone who was on the fence about going. Since the vast majority of people participating in these presales are casual fans, they don't know any better, and they go away happy with their "look at Bono's arse" seats.

I contacted Ticketmaster and Live Nation multiple times to complain about the ticket drops (again, I was never naive enough to think there wouldn't be SOME better tickets available later, but I never expected them to be abundantly available). They just pointed fingers at each other. One of the Live Nation reps told me they only finance the show, that's it. When I cited the promotional deal including merchandising, concerts, etc, he was sort of just silent.

U2 should not have gotten in bed with these whores. I know they have to let LN promote the tour, but they went beyond that and gave them the "keys to the kingdom".

 

[kohoutek]

So many? Really? Besides Bruce can you name a few?

I know PJ used to but not so much these days...

Drive-By Truckers
The Rolling Stones when they were the same age the members of U2 are now
Paul McCartney
Elvis Costello
Phish
Most of Peter Buck's (from REM) side projects. Paid $13 for Minus 5 / Baseball Project / Steve Wynn a week before U2 and got my ass rocked off by a band having the time of their lives.

 

[badu2fan]

Shows that i know play longer.
Pearl Jam 2 1/2 hours In chicago they played 56 songs over 2 nights with only about 8 repeated
Roger Waters 3 hours same set every night like u2
Pink Floyd 3 hours same set every night
Springsteen 2/1/2 -3 hours changes 10 or more songs a night
Radiohead 2 1/2 hour changes 8-10 songs a night and they played BOnaroo and played almost 3 hours
Grateful Dead and Phish for as long as they want to and play what they want
Allman Brothers 2 1/2 hours change sets every night
Wilco 2 1/2 hours change set every night
Willie Nelson will play 3 hours
Paul McCartney is doing over 2 hours in stadiums hell he is almost 70 right?
all of these bands will play festivals which u2 seems to not be interested in.
And I am sure there are many others that play longer then 2 hours. Widespread Panic etc.....
PJ Radiohead REM WIlco fan clubs are best for taking care of the fans with best seats etc. None want to be as big as u2 and are happy with what they have achieved. PJ and REM are only ones that charge a fee and it is less the $20 a year and if they do multiple legs there is no early renewal sent out. You are eligible until expiration date.
U2 is great and maybe 2 big for what we are looking for.
I dont care about setting attendance records at high cost to fans. I am surprised that is the message they want to comunicate to their fans. I know this can all be yours etc... But this show is not intimate just because of the claw. It is really about selling 20% more seats for each show.

 

[Flaming_C]

Add My Morning Jacket, who are known to play well over two hours. At Bonnaroo 2008, they played a four-hour show.

The Cure, on their last tour, played around three hours, including three encores - each lasting over 20 minutes.

Prince has a fan club, who gives fan club members access to the best seats. There is a fee, however. In addition to the fee, fan club members get rare recordings (i.e., non-public sale) about four times a year. Prince's shows last upwards of three hours. Oh yeah, he often does an intimate, after-concert show for just his fan club members.

 

[ntalwar]

Second night I had Red Zone, right on the rail outside of Adam's side. Perfect view of everyone at least once (Bono 3X, Edge 2X, Larry 1X and Adam...most of the night it seemed.)
Those tickets cost $160. It's a good option to see the band up close if you win the auction.

I agree with this. RZ would have been kohoutek's best option - close and plenty of room to not be directly behind someone.

 

[djerdap]

So many? Really? Besides Bruce can you name a few?

I know PJ used to but not so much these days...

Pearl Jam shows are still around 135 minutes in length on average. There are frequently 150-minute shows appearing as well, like the one in Berlin I went to this year.

 

[DRay9911]

telephone88 is squishing the claw!!!

-dan

 

[kohoutek]

badu2fan makes another great point: U2 needs to stop trying to be the biggest band in the world and refocus themselves toward being the best, particularly best live band.

Of course, being the "best" is subjective, whereas biggest is quantifiable, but striving for "best" means they never "win", and that to me seems like it would be more interesting to them and keep them hungry (vs. being able to say, finally, we beat the Stones on tour gross).

I DO buy into the case for doing what U2 does (striving for "biggest") out of concern for the future of music as a commercial enterprise, and rock music in particular. I have no problem with the marriage of art and commerce. I have never accused any band I liked of selling out (I have accused some of starting to suck, though - not there with U2 so far). I ran into the local paper's music critic at a club a couple weeks ago and talked for a few seconds about how great Van Halen's tour was and how, as much as I love club shows and think they're important, I also think it's important to have a good number of quality "arena sized" artists. Having said that, U2 has tried this "biggest" thing, I think partly out of the same concern, but it's not working.

As an alternative, I think the future of music and rock, and more importantly the interests of the band as artists and of their fans, would be better served if U2 focused on quality over quantity. Should they play hits in concert, even hits we might be a bit tired of? Absolutely. BUT, they need to put more focus on the music, including mixing setlists up more and reaching deeper into their catalog. Bring back the passion and some rawness and spontenaity, and dial back the gimmicks.

 

[ntalwar]

I ran into the local paper's music critic at a club a couple weeks ago and talked for a few seconds about how great Van Halen's tour was

Van Halen's last show/tour was, to put it mildly, "not good". The sound was terrible, even by the soundboard. It was full of mistakes as well. They also had multiple tiers of tickets, going well into the hundreds of dollars, to be closest to the stage. U2 360 blew it away.

 

[kohoutek]

I agree with this. RZ would have been kohoutek's best option - close and plenty of room to not be directly behind someone.

I think you're absolutely right. Originally my plan was to do RZ and have seats as a back up if I didn't win the auction. The RZ for Raleigh got a little steep right at the end, and at the time I wasn't sure enough about the set up to know whether it would have worked for us.

It became apparent to me that RZ was probably the best option, and I noticed that they did subsequent auctions for RZ before most shows, and they generally went fairly "cheap" ($115 - $150, if that can be called cheap). For whatever reason there was no second auction for Raleigh, so I went with the GA drop.

I don't regret any of what I did, as it's all a learning experience, not to mention just an experience unto itelf. I stand together with my family and say "we tried to rock as a family, and we failed. we are pansies who retreated to our seats, in great measure because most of us are short, some shorter than others, but we tried".

 

[DubbalinGirl]

I COMPLETELY blame, primarily, the promoter (Live Nation), and, secondarily, ticketmaster. I have no doubt whatsoever about the following:

1) U2's "fanclub" is a ticket selling tool, not a fanclub (compare it to REM's and you'll know what I'm talking about). I'm not sure they have much say in what goes on there.

Maybe now...but I was doing this fanclub ticket thing when I was sending SASEs to Propaganda with money orders....I firmly believe they put the most advantageous seats aside for the fan club. My seats the last two tours were just as good as the mail-in money order days.

 

[kohoutek]

Van Halen's last show/tour was, to put it mildly, "not good". The sound was terrible, even by the soundboard. It was full of mistakes as well. They also had multiple tiers of tickets, going well into the hundreds of dollars, to be closest to the stage. U2 360 blew it away.

U2 to VH is not a fair comparison. Think for VH it depended on the show. I saw the 2nd one of the tour and was blown away. Yeah, paid (I think) $125ish per ticket, but were close to the floor and stage with a great view. A few mistakes in the show, but I'm not looking for perfection in a rock show. Mistakes are interesting. U2 should try making a few (actually, Bono got "lost" in WOWY on Saturday but recovered).

I know some of the VH shows fell apart.