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Old 06-11-2017, 09:28 PM   #81
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Well that's one of the questions I've been meaning to ask. Why is Star Wars the cultural phenomenon that it is, if only A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are considered good?

Surely there has to be goodness to be found in Episodes 6, 1, 2, 3, 7..?

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Good one. You fucking jackass.
I'm actually genuinely not trolling. I know I've been a huge dick about Star Wars in the past but it really is all a facade. I really, really liked Empire Strikes Back. I'd just never seen it because I'm not a movie buff

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We're gonna need a little more than that. Hot takes on Yoda, Luke vs Vader, the carbon freezing, etc.
I was a bit shocked at Yoda's voice. I have to admit I found that really annoying, I was reaching for subtitles on more than one occasion. That said I wish (and was expecting) the scenes with Yoda to be longer and a little more awesome; but I suppose the movie is already two hours long so you couldn't pack in much more than that. I think Yoda is awesome but I wish they'd built him up a bit more, given him some more back story that adds to his legend. The stuff with Ben's ghost reminding Yoda he was a pain in the arse too was cool. I really did think Luke wouldn't leave though, or that he would come back to his training.

Luke vs Vader was great, my mouth dropped when Vader first walks into the room to start the fight. I ALWAYS thought the line was "Luke, I am your father" though, which it isn't. Also I thought there was no way that would be revealed til episode 6. I liked that the film leaves you hanging at the end, it doesn't tie things up in a nice bow.

Carbon freezing was also super cool. I love Han Solo. Harrison Ford was a fucking babe. Carrie Fisher is so fierce and their scenes together are so great.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:16 PM   #82
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Star Wars Episode VIII: A New Thread

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Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
Well that's one of the questions I've been meaning to ask. Why is Star Wars the cultural phenomenon that it is, if only A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are considered good?



Surely there has to be goodness to be found in Episodes 6, 1, 2, 3, 7..?

Oh there is a lot of good still to be found.

Return of the Jedi has a lot of redeemable qualities. The prequels are a bit of a slog if you ask me, they look incredible and there are a some good monents but the dialogue veers from ok to truly dreadful and everyone in it other than Ewan McGregor take it far too seriously.

I was very impressed with Force Awakens as well for what its worth.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #83
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Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are both good movies. They're not as good as New Hope or Empire, but certainly worthwhile action flicks. And Force Awakens is good as fuck, it's just incredibly derivative.

I'd say five of the eight movies are really good, if Rogue One counts. I wasn't into that one, outside of the last 40 minutes or so. And the first two prequels suck.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:52 AM   #84
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Don't listen to Laz, Cobbler. ROTJ isn't as good as Empire(Empire is the best, after all), but it isn't the garbage some people make it out to be. Don't let the whopping 15 total minutes of Ewoks ruin it for you. It's still arguably better than any of the prequels.

IMO of course.
Yeah I agree, I didn't realise anybody thought ANY of the prequels were better than ROTJ. Ewoks shit aside and Han Solo being really sidelined it's still a very good film IMO.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #85
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There are a lot of people who do. People who appreciate things like superior visual storytelling, fresh ideas, deeper mythology.

"Jar Jar shit aside and Anakin being poorly directed it's still a very good film IMO." See how that works?
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:29 PM   #86
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this is the douchiest thread on interference.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #87
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Ok, so Return of the Jedi!

What a strange film this was. Strange because it's so... tonally odd and all over the place. The plot made very, very little sense, which was a bit of a shame after the awesome cliffhanger that you're left on after Empire Strikes Back. It's a very up-and-down film, quite inconsistent. There are some truly awful parts (the bar hoedown scenes, the Ewoks capturing, then releasing, then partying with Luke and Han) and some absolutely atrocious dialogue (Luke's reveal to Leia) but then you've got these incredibly amazing highs that are probably better than anything from the first two films, like:
- Leia tricking Jabba the Hut disguised as a bounty hunter who's caught Chewbacca
- Luke being an absolute motherfucking badass
- Leia (think I had a new sexual awakening)
- the fight scene between the rebels and Jabba and all his cohorts
- Lando Calrissian (mannnn oh man is Donald Glover going to fucking own this character)
- the flying motorbike scenes are awesome
- I finally understand "ITS A TRAP!"

The last, like, 45 minutes of the film is absolutely sensational. Kept me on the edge of my seat story-wise, the suspense was thrilling, the battle for the Death Star was visually fantastic, and the scenes with Palpatine, Vader and Luke are really interesting. I was umming and ahhing about the whole Vader thing... he's painted as such a mesmerising bad guy for the first two films and most of this one, and I thought it was a bit of a copout that he's so easily swayed back to the light side of the force in the matter of minutes. But then having said that, it provides a really nice moment with the Emperor being killed and the unmasking of Vader and return of Anakin.

Another gripe I have is I wish you got to see more of Luke's training. He's obviously become way more powerful between the end of Empire and start of Jedi, but like in Empire there's not much exposition on it, and again barely any for Yoda, which is such a shame.

Also I was evidently watching one of Lucas' re-releases, because Hayden fucking Christensen appears on the screen at the end next to Yoda and Ben. That was a bit lame.

Also, the Ewoks are super cute.

So all in all, great films, there are flaws everywhere, but great films. The ending is so, so, so, so satisfying, and I found myself asking what is the need for prequels when the ending wraps things up so very well. I would rank them Empire Strikes Back > Return of the Jedi > A New Hope. A New Hope is overall more consistent but Return of the Jedi has way better highlights.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:05 PM   #88
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How do you even know who Hayden Christensen is? Anyway, it was worse before Lucas fixed it, when you had some old dude who Anakin could never have possibly looked like because his face was burned when he was much younger.

Decent observations, yes the last 45 min are damn good, aside from the Leia/Han high school-level romantic spat. Ford basically phoned in this movie, and Fisher is still game but not quite the spark of the previous two.

And yes it's particularly lame that Luke's training is just taken for granted off screen. The Dagobah scene is particularly weak, with, let's remind everyone, OBI-WAN'S GHOST SITTING DOWN ON A LOG and giving a pretty awkward justification for his deception.

I don't believe Vader's transformation is too abrupt, and I guess that's part of what the prequels help flesh out; Sith Lords are always plotting against their masters and Vader wasn't lying when he tried to get Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor and rule together. When he is wounded and Luke refuses to put him away at the Emperor's request, and then subsequently seeing Luke being tortured as a result is enough for me to see him turn on his master.

Hope you get to dive into The Phantom Menace quickly, I'm sure you'll have a lot of issues with it as it's also a mixed bag, but there's a lot to like about it as well.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:38 PM   #89
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The prequels can be a bit of a slog. Attack of the Clones is only interesting in discovering Stormtroopers are Maori and working out how long you can suspend your suspension of disbelief before you realise it's impossible to take seriously.

Then you get a comically (in a good way) wild start to Revenge of the Sith.

I always rank Return of the Jedi higher than Empire, but I suspect that's partially because it was the only Star Wars film I had on VHS when I was younger (why did I not buy the other ones? I can't reasonably explain it) and have a slight case of familiarity breeding contempt.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:32 AM   #90
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Why do any require more suspension of disbelief than the others? And suddenly the introduction of more dialects besides American and British English and it's somehow funny? Sounds a little racist to me. Bravo to Lucas for casting outside the box and not getting too hung up on some tiny bit of continuity. The guy who plays Captain Typho is also Maori if I'm not mistaken. Also, I'm pretty sure there's a line in The Force Awakens about them not using clones anymore so I'm not sure if your comment about Stormtroopers even makes sense.

Clones has an interesting mystery subplot that's not found in any of the other films, and plays with several film noir tropes (as does Empire).

But I'll save further comment for when Cobbler watches these and reports back.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:41 AM   #91
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I think cobbler (a dumbass) said he watched Revenge of the Sith first, which is just hilarious on a number of levels. So that's probably part of how he knows Hayden Christensen.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:53 AM   #92
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Why do any require more suspension of disbelief than the others? And suddenly the introduction of more dialects besides American and British English and it's somehow funny? Sounds a little racist to me. Bravo to Lucas for casting outside the box and not getting too hung up on some tiny bit of continuity. The guy who plays Captain Typho is also Maori if I'm not mistaken. Also, I'm pretty sure there's a line in The Force Awakens about them not using clones anymore so I'm not sure if your comment about Stormtroopers even makes sense.
Because it's insanely boring.

I am also yet to meet a Maori person who doesn't laugh that the Star Wars original Nazi equivalent are brown folks, if they like Star Wars and it ends up coming up in conversation.

I'm aware they don't use clones anymore by The Force Awakens, that's why Finn freaks and joins the Resistance by and large.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:02 AM   #93
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Correction, dumbass, I watched Revenge of the Sith translated into Chinese and then translated back into English and overdubbed.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:23 AM   #94
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Haha. That's wild. I can't say I've ever watched a movie in that way before.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:16 AM   #95
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It was pretty funny that that was my first introduction to Star Wars. I'll see if I can find the link for you tonight - the ending (where Vader screams "nooooo") ends up being "do not waaaaant", it's really funny.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:42 AM   #96
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Anyway, it was worse before Lucas fixed it, when you had some old dude who Anakin could never have possibly looked like because his face was burned when he was much younger.
It was fine the way it was. In fact I find it rather telling that a person watching it for the first time finds Christensen's inclusion to be odd because it is.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:37 AM   #97
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It was fine the way it was. In fact I find it rather telling that a person watching it for the first time finds Christensen's inclusion to be odd because it is.
Right
If Anakin's ghost shows up as Christensen, shouldn't Obi show as MacGregor?

Regarding the burns, we're seeing his essence/aura or whatever you want to call it not his actual physical self, so its fine to have Sebastian Shaw as the older Anakin as the original version had.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:03 PM   #98
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I don't believe Vader's transformation is too abrupt, and I guess that's part of what the prequels help flesh out; Sith Lords are always plotting against their masters and Vader wasn't lying when he tried to get Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor and rule together. When he is wounded and Luke refuses to put him away at the Emperor's request, and then subsequently seeing Luke being tortured as a result is enough for me to see him turn on his master.
i believe (folks feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) that lucas already had the basic outline of the prequels written out before the original trilogy was made. so if that's true, then watching his son being tortured to death no doubt brought back memories of what happened to padme, which could easily be a trigger for his sudden change of heart.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:46 PM   #99
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Just the fact that its his son being tortured/killed is enough of a reason for the change of heart. The other stuff (plotting against the master and memories of Padme) just add to it, no reason to find that change in Vader hard to believe.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:17 PM   #100
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True, but Vader tried to kill Luke/ chopped off his hand/sent him plummeting probably to his death like "oh well, bye" in Empire, and that was - what, a few years in between?

I like RoTJ a lot, but that's a pretty big shift in that time from "lol, bye Lefty" to his son to "Oh shit, my son is being tortured there is still good in me!"

Maybe Vader found Jesus in between.


(I don't really feel that strongly about it, I just finally had something to add to the conversation here.)
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