Prometheus - Spoiler filled discussion

[Jive Turkey]

So the end of Prometheus left a lot of questions unanswered that I was hoping some of you would want to discuss. I'm not sure where to start, so maybe someone else can get the ball rolling. If you haven't seen the movie, stop reading because this will be full of spoilers. Stuff to think about:

Why did the engineers create us only to turn around and want to destroy us.
What is the function of the black goo and why did David give it to Holloway (Try to ignore the fact that you too would probably want to poison Holloway)
Why did the Engineers leave cave paintings and why did they stop visiting (and why show us a map to a remote bioweapons facility)?
What did David say to the Engineer to make him so angry (or would he have been angry regardless of what was said)?

Those are just a few off the top of my head to get things started, but there's so much more

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

What did David say to the Engineer to make him so angry (or would he have been angry regardless of what was said)?

A couple of thoughts along this line - I'm tempted to think the Engineer wouldn't have been been angry regardless. When he awoke, he seemed to be waiting for someone to say something. He didn't immediately fly into a rage. So it was something about Weyland, Shaw or David's own question/greeting which provoked him.

Also, I was quick to accept the "Engineer returning to Earth to destroy it" premise. But are we really sure that's what was happening? Granted, the Engineer's enraged response seem consistent with that, but we're trusting that David fully understands the Engineer's motives as well as the android's honesty.

 

[deep]

I think you will not find your answers, critics have been complaining about plot holes
as if any of the these premises are plausible.

I say just enjoy the movie. As movies go this is a very good and satisfying.

I did attend a lecture with David Lynch, he took questions, someone wanted explanations for Mulholland Drive .
He asked the person what they thought. He replied, " if that works for you, it is correct."


The opening scene, was gorgeous. Who was that 9 ft human?

I'd say he drank a potion that reduced himself down to dna, and then he seeded a planet.
Where was he? When was it?

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

I like what Roger Ebert said in the opening sentence of his review - it's "all the more intriguing because it raises questions about the origin of human life and doesn't have the answers."

 

[Jive Turkey]

Well deep, for me, half the fun is discussing the film after the fact. It's not that I need to know the real answers, I just like to talk about the possibilities

The opening scene, was gorgeous. Who was that 9 ft human?

I'd say he drank a potion that reduced himself down to dna, and then he seeded a planet.
Where was he? When was it?

The opening scene was gorgeous! Really drew me into the film. And it was slightly ethereal with the way the spaceship was hovering and exiting the atmosphere.
I thought the opening scene was fairly straight forward though. The 9 foot 'human' was one of the engineers (obviously) and he drank the black liquid to break down his body into its basic parts so that it could recombine and seed life on Earth. He sacrificed his body to create life on another planet (Why? We don't know, but "to create, first you have to destroy"). The scene took place on Earth (or a similar planet, but that's irrelevant because we know that at the very least, something similar happened on Earth) billions of years ago before there was life here.
That then brings up a question about the black goo: Why, when the engineer drinks it, does he body disintegrate whereas when the humans drink it later in the film (and much later chronologically) do they become mutants? I think the answer to that is hinted at in the fact that, in the billions of years since the Engineers seeded the Earth, they haven't evolved physically (Though they seem to have incorporated mechanical parts into their bodies as evidenced by the mechanical looking neck on the Engineer in the final act); They pretty much look exactly the same as they did and even exactly the same from one to another. That suggests that they reproduce asexually and are essentially clones of one another. Perhaps the black goo acts as a mutagen; Perhaps by allowing the new earth dna to mutate, it gives it a better chance of survival on what would be an alien world to the Engineers. Since we modern humans already contain the function for mutating dna, the black goo affects us differently than it does the engineers

 

[u2popmofo]

I sent JT this article elsewhere, but watned to share it with everyone else. A little more insight into things from the screenwriter.

The Secrets of Prometheus with Damon Lindelof - IGN

I'll be back.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I like what Roger Ebert said in the opening sentence of his review - it's "all the more intriguing because it raises questions about the origin of human life and doesn't have the answers."

Nicely put.
I also really like the concept that our Gods don't even like us and would rather see us all dead. There's something counter intuitive about that in the way it relates to how we throughout history have thought of ourselves. It also seems to have a touch of a Lovecraft-ian outlook (though I could be wrong having not read anything by him ). But isn't one of his overlying premises that ultimate reality is pure suffering and not the sort of paradise or release that we think of as the afterlife? I'm sure I have that somewhat wrong

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

It's possible the Engineer had a Tower of Babel type reaction, furious (or spooked) that the humans dare try to reach their level.

 

[Jive Turkey]

There are a lot of parallels suggested between the way the crew thinks of David and of androids in general and the way the Engineers think of us. You get the sense that the crew wouldn't think twice about shutting David down if they suspected any kind of devious behaviour. And they talked to him as if he were lower than them. You'd have to guess that the Engineers would think of the humans the exact same way

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

There are a lot of parallels suggested between the way the crew thinks of David and of androids in general and the way the Engineers think of us. You get the sense that the crew wouldn't think twice about shutting David down if they suspected any kind of devious behaviour. And they talked to him as if he were lower than them. You'd have to guess that the Engineers would think of the humans the exact same way

Absolutely, and David was clearly aware of and affected by their attitude. Almost makes you wonder if that played a part in what he said to the Engineer.

Here's a question I honestly have zero insight on: Is there anything more to the Lawrence of Arabia references? Any parallels? To be honest, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Lawrence of Arabia straight through, so I'd be oblivious to just about any parrallel structure.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Here's a question I honestly have zero insight on: Is there anything more to the Lawrence of Arabia references? Any parallels? To be honest, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Lawrence of Arabia straight through, so I'd be oblivious to just about any parrallel structure.

I'm not sure, but I was wondering the same thing. At the beginning of the film, I got the feeling that David was intentionally taking on a kind of persona that would be comforting to another one of the crew members; He would've known about the crew member's affection for the movie by watching his or her dream; a sort of nefarious way of gaining someone's trust. But that never really came to fruition. There was one scene where he recites a line and the Scottish lady (can't remember her name) reacts. I'll have to watch it again to see if anything else is hinted at with regard to that

 

[deep]

David was doing the bidding of the old guy, who wanted to win favor.

See Lawrence of Arabia, and if you can catch a good print on the big screen. One of the all time best.

 

[Jive Turkey]

David was doing the bidding of the old guy, who wanted to win favor.

He was, but that still doesn't help with many of the questions. And is he capable of acting contrary to Weyland's wishes?

See Lawrence of Arabia, and if you can catch a good print on the big screen. One of the all time best.

It's one I've always been meaning to watch. I'll be sure to check it out

 

[u2popmofo]

I sorta bought into the ship captain's opinion on the subject (by the way, loved how much he looked and acted like Apone from Aliens), particularly after reading the screenwriter's interview. It very well could be that the maps found on Earth of that system were by no means an invitation, it's just that humans took it that way. Also, why did they just randomly decide to go to that planet when they saw a map of a star system? It very well could be that they just flat out chose the wrong place based on what humans think a planet suited for life should be like. It seemed that the black shiznit was a biological weapon which causes a xenomorph type reaction when exposed to animals & humans. I'm not sure if this is or isn't the exact same substance at the first of the movie, as it seems there had been a a xenomorph type reaction in the facility prior to the Prometheus' arrival. Also, in the "storage" room, on the wall there was obviously a carving specifically of what appeared to the xenomorph / aliens we're familiar with, so it seems to me that the Engineers knew what that substance did.

Being a huge fan of Alien and Aliens, there were so many awesome fanboy moments for me in this. When they first saw the outline of the ship underneath the "mound" on their sensors, I had a big smile. When they walked into the storage room, and the canisters were lined up like the eggs in Alien and Aliens, more smiles. When you see the carving of a xenomorph looking creature on the wall, bigger smile. My absolute favorite fanboy moment, when the Engineer hops into the cockpit, and that huge gun looking control deal comes rising up, I nearly started clapping. (For those who don't know, you see an engineer sitting in that exact same cockpit control deal in its elephant looking spacesuit with a hole in its chest in the ship in the first Alien movie.)

Side note, Ridley Scott really doesn't like the idea of robots / androids, does he?

 

[u2popmofo]

Got side tracked, and realized I never actually threw in my "theories". I sorta assume the Engineers created humans and Earth just as a testing ground to try out their "weapon". We were nothing special, they saw us the same as rats in a lab.

I could be very wrong on that though. Perhaps we killed or tried to fight the Engineers, and they decided to wipe us out. Maybe we didn't evolve like they wanted us to. Who knows.

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

My absolute favorite fanboy moment, when the Engineer hops into the cockpit, and that huge gun looking control deal comes rising up, I nearly started clapping. (For those who don't know, you see an engineer sitting in that exact same cockpit control deal in its elephant looking spacesuit with a hole in its chest in the ship in the first Alien movie.)

Ha, I watched Alien for the first time in a long time right after Prometheus, and I thought that direct connection was great - even if Nostromo's crew wasn't discovering that exact same crash site.

 

[deep]

I have one giant complaint that has left me very unhappy.

I am a big Noomi Rapace fan. I watched all 3 Sweedish Dragon Tattoo movies.
She made them, won me over completely.
The last Sherlock Holmes film she was in was terrible, I walked out of it twice.
So I am glad she is in this and doing great work again.

Charlize Theron is beautiful, I thought the Huntsman movie was a step down for her.
However in this movie she is back, what they gave her, she delivered.

The movie is doing quite well.
I thought they went for the PG-13 rating, for the wider audience.
But then I learn it is rated R.

This movie is over 2 hours and they could not give us 30 -45 seconds of the two women naked.
They each had love scenes, they each have done nude scenes before. I feel robbed.

There was more nudity on AMC's Madmen last night.

 

[Jive Turkey]

My absolute favorite fanboy moment, when the Engineer hops into the cockpit, and that huge gun looking control deal comes rising up, I nearly started clapping.

This part was awesome. I also thought it was badass how the suit started building up around him. Like it was slowly becoming the iconic symbol from the first movie

 

[Jive Turkey]

It seemed that the black shiznit was a biological weapon which causes a xenomorph type reaction when exposed to animals & humans. I'm not sure if this is or isn't the exact same substance at the first of the movie, as it seems there had been a a xenomorph type reaction in the facility prior to the Prometheus' arrival. Also, in the "storage" room, on the wall there was obviously a carving specifically of what appeared to the xenomorph / aliens we're familiar with, so it seems to me that the Engineers knew what that substance did.

It would be unfair to have 2 black liquids in the film that were completely different. I hope that's not the case.
I thought it was curious that there were worms on the alien planet. Maybe they brought them there from Earth to experiment on simpler lifeforms.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Got side tracked, and realized I never actually threw in my "theories". I sorta assume the Engineers created humans and Earth just as a testing ground to try out their "weapon". We were nothing special, they saw us the same as rats in a lab.

I could be very wrong on that though. Perhaps we killed or tried to fight the Engineers, and they decided to wipe us out. Maybe we didn't evolve like they wanted us to. Who knows.

I like that idea, but then why would they come back to 'teach' us about the star system? Maybe it was a safety feature? As soon as the lifeform is smart enough to visit, they've become a thread and need to be wiped out? Maybe that's also why the starmap pointed to a remote facility and not their homeworld
I also like the idea that maybe humans were also a bio weapon in the same way the xenomorphs are

 

[Jive Turkey]

This movie is over 2 hours and they could not give us 30 -45 seconds of the two women naked.

hahahaha, the acting praise buildup made this even funnier

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

This movie is over 2 hours and they could not give us 30 -45 seconds of the two women naked. They each had love scenes. they each have done nude scenes before. I feel robbed.

No idea how insightful this is, but this note is from IMDB:

"Ridley Scott stated that he was filming "the most aggressive film [he] could" by not caring about MPAA ratings, having support for such bold movement from 20th Century Fox CEO Tom Rothman, who addressed Alien fans by saying that he was "very aware of their concern", and that "they can take it that the film will not be compromised either way. So if that means that the film is R, then it'll be an R. If it's PG-13, then it'll be a PG-13, but it will not be compromised." Scott shot the film with both adult-only R and more accessible PG-13 film ratings in mind, allowing the more adult content to be cut if necessary without harming the overall presentation, given the case it was asked to be cut down. Eventually, the film was rated "R for Sci-Fi violence including some intense images, and brief language", and it was released without any demanded cuts."

Maybe nudity was scripted or even filmed, but ultimately Scott saw it as pointless at best and distracting at worst.

 

[monkeyskin]

Read a theory that the engineer at the start of the movie went rogue when seeding the planet and ultimately creating humans in his own image. The rest then tried to clean up this mistake. Gives further meaning to the title.

 

[deep]

hahahaha, the acting praise buildup made this even funnier

I put writing and acting towards the top of the list

but I admit, I am a sucker for bare breasts

 

[Jive Turkey]

Read a theory that the engineer at the start of the movie went rogue when seeding the planet and ultimately creating humans in his own image. The rest then tried to clean up this mistake. Gives further meaning to the title.

An interesting theory, but it still doesn't explain why they would then occasionally visit us and teach us about the star system. I prefer the idea that the Engineer was just dropped off on Earth to seed the planet via his sacrificed body. The ship was leaving because everything had been put in place.

And if you think about it, it's the humans that are the Prometheus to our Engineer Gods; We've used raw materials to create life (Androids). Maybe it's that realization that puts the final Engineer into a rage (our punishment)

 

[deep]

No idea how insightful this is, but this note is from IMDB:

Blade Runner was made 30 years ago, and I seem to remember it as being sexier than this. Granted the Alien movies were not that sexy. But, take movies like The Fifth Element, without that much skin that movie would not be as memorable. (loosely included because of aliens visiting and leaving wall writings)

also anyone reminded of DePalma's Mission to Mars,

the premise includes a large head on a planet with aliens that seeded humans on earth. I liked that movie.
(DePalma included because Noomi is doing a remake with him next, that will most likely include nudity, I saw the original, Love Crimes)

 

[Jive Turkey]

Granted the Alien movies were not that sexy.

I dunno dude, Ripley in her skimpy undies was pretty sexy. Thought they were nodding to that with Noomi's little abortion outfit

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

Blade Runner was made 30 years ago, and I seem to remember it as being sexier than this.

Nah, all it had was Joanna Cassidy's breasts for a brief second. Sean Young's nudity was cut.

 

[u2popmofo]

I dunno dude, Ripley in her skimpy undies was pretty sexy. Thought they were nodding to that with Noomi's little abortion outfit

I always wondered why Ripley seemed to be wearing undies designed for someone half her age and size in that scene. The future is weird.

By the way, that "abortion" scene was pretty nasty.

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

Another question that was actually directly asked in the film: Is Vickers an android? There are certainly suggestions of such outside of the outright accusation, among them her being Weyland's "daughter." She was also able to throw David around fairly easily, which was a bit surprising.