Michael Jackson rushed to hospital - He was not breathing / Michael Jackson is dead

[lazarus]

I also don't understand the RUMOUR that he left the Beatles rights to Paul somehow wipes away what he did with them in the past.

HE. SOLD. THE. RIGHTS. TO. REVOLUTION. TO. NIKE.

Anyone old enough to remember when that commercial came out should remember the HUGE controversy when it did, and how many musicians were upset that this landmark song was being used to sell shoes.

"Songs like Revolution don't mean a pair of sneakers, they mean Revolution."
- Paul McCartney

Even MACCA was pissed.

 

[VintagePunk]

Heath Ledger wasn't accused of molesting children, didn't have a disturbing fixation with them, or chop his face up with plastic surgery.

He also died when he was just staring to do some of his best work.

See the difference?

Right. But one of the first people on the scene was an Olson twin.

Regardless, you got me, Michael definitely wins the weirdo war by far, you win.

So I guess that makes it more a matter of showing respect to people who do care. Some people aren't capable of giving that respect, but I'm sure they'd be the first ones to cry foul if they weren't afforded the same respect when someone they admired died.

 

[Tiger Edge]

mooooooooooving on...

YouTube - (Michael Jackson) Billie Jean - Sungha Jung

One of the greatest melodies ever, beautiful arrangement, prodigy kid. A+ all around.

 

[LMP]

So I guess that makes it more a matter of showing respect to people who do care. Some people aren't capable of giving that respect, but I'm sure they'd be the first ones to cry foul if they weren't afforded the same respect when someone they admired died.

I agree somewhat, but I do think that some of these people would understand the divisive nature of their celebrity, you know?

The admirable qualities of this guy's career should be remembered as well as the bad. Otherwise, it's just some revisionist view of history.

 

[lazarus]

So I guess that makes it more a matter of showing respect to people who do care. Some people aren't capable of giving that respect, but I'm sure they'd be the first ones to cry foul if they weren't afforded the same respect when someone they admired died.

Well, some of us wouldn't be so hypocritical to admire someone so screwed up and then be upset if others didn't feel the same way.

 

[VintagePunk]

I agree somewhat, but I do think that some of these people would understand the divisive nature of their celebrity, you know?

The admirable qualities of this guy's career should be remembered as well as the bad. Otherwise, it's just some revisionist view of history.

Oh, I agree. But is it really appropriate just minutes or hours after, when people are still kind of stunned, shaking their heads, letting it all sink in, and expressing their genuine thoughts and sadness online? There'll be plenty of time to deconstruct his life in the days to come.

Whatever. A couple of posts from me isn't going to instill general politeness into people. Have at it, if that's what makes you happy, I guess.

(not you, LMP, I was speaking in general.)

 

[lazarus]

As I said before, I wonder if people would be this sensitive if O.J. just died, or would all bets be off? I'm curious if everyone is deserving of the same amount of respect and sympathy.

 

[VintagePunk]

Well, some of us wouldn't be so hypocritical to admire someone so screwed up and then be upset if others didn't feel the same way.

Whatever. A couple of posts from me isn't going to instill general politeness into people. Have at it, if that's what makes you happy, I guess.

 

[Lancemc]

That's the risk people take when they spill their hearts out online. If you want a safe venue to sort out your emotions, you're better off meeting up with some friends and family... you know, in the real world.

 

[Sicy]

This thread is a perfect example of what happens whenever a 'controversial' celebrity passes. If a big well known celebrity that had no flaws or faults passed, all the responses would be and RIP, etc. While I think its a shame that some people feel the need to act so childish and callous, I know I cant change how people feel and there are bound to be some extreme debates and arguments. It's really just unfortunate that some people cannot have enough decency to just not say anything at all if they don't have anything nice to say. It's bad enough to be carrying on in this thread, but then to post even ruder things in other threads all over the forum. I've already tried to say more than once that this thread should be to discuss the events and pay your respects. If you have rude remarks or comments, or want to crack jokes, there are other threads to do that in. The guy was no saint by far, but as much of a pop legend as he was, I feel he deserves at least one thread where people can mourn and pay their respects.

 

[LMP]

Oh, I agree. But is it really appropriate just minutes or hours after, when people are still kind of stunned, shaking their heads, letting it all sink in, and expressing their genuine thoughts and sadness online? There'll be plenty of time to deconstruct his life in the days to come.

Whatever. A couple of posts from me isn't going to instill general politeness into people. Have at it, if that's what makes you happy, I guess.

(not you, LMP, I was speaking in general.)

I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm still trying to grasp the whole attachment most people have to celebrities and this obsession with celebrity culture. It's amazing how his death overshadowed Farrah Fawcett's death (and to a lesser extent, Ed McMahon's), when in the end they're just two people who very few people actually know.

It's strange. I'm not condemning anyone for being emotional that someone has died, but why them, you know?

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. I'm sure someone can express it better than I have.

 

[Lila64]

Well said Sicy. Thanks

 

[intedomine]

Maybe, for some reason, and to his fans, his contribution to music and pop culture more than compensates for his other failings (hanging his kid over the railing etc.)?

There's also a difference between someone molesting children, and being accused but found not guilty of molesting children.

And some might argue that his obsession with wrecking his body with all that surgical treatment was a means of self-expression, creating his own unique physical identity. As fucked up as his face ended up looking, he still looked more normal than those people who have tattoos all over their body and on their face, in my opinion anyway. Most tattoos are sheer heinous.

 

[daygloeyes2]

This thread is a perfect example of what happens whenever a 'controversial' celebrity passes. If a big well known celebrity that had no flaws or faults passed, all the responses would be and RIP, etc. While I think its a shame that some people feel the need to act so childish and callous, I know I cant change how people feel and there are bound to be some extreme debates and arguments. It's really just unfortunate that some people cannot have enough decency to just not say anything at all if they don't have anything nice to say. It's bad enough to be carrying on in this thread, but then to post even ruder things in other threads all over the forum. I've already tried to say more than once that this thread should be to discuss the events and pay your respects. If you have rude remarks or comments, or want to crack jokes, there are other threads to do that in. The guy was no saint by far, but as much of a pop legend as he was, I feel he deserves at least one thread where people can mourn and pay their respects.

This is why I'm staying silent.

 

[lazarus]

This thread is a perfect example of what happens whenever a 'controversial' celebrity passes. If a big well known celebrity that had no flaws or faults passed, all the responses would be and RIP, etc. .

Sicy, the majority of what you said seems all well and good, but who else are you including in that "controversial" category? There's a difference between someone who was difficult to live with or treated their family like shit, and what MJ has in his bio.

 

[lazarus]

There's also a difference between someone molesting children, and being accused but found not guilty of molesting children.

And there's a difference between having photography books featuring naked children, and not having those books.

 

[deep]

Heath Ledger wasn't accused of molesting children, didn't have a disturbing fixation with them, or chop his face up with plastic surgery.

He also died when he was just staring to do some of his best work.

See the difference?

Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.

 

[VintagePunk]

I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm still trying to grasp the whole attachment most people have to celebrities and this obsession with celebrity culture. It's amazing how his death overshadowed Farrah Fawcett's death (and to a lesser extent, Ed McMahon's), when in the end they're just two people who very few people actually know.

It's strange. I'm not condemning anyone for being emotional that someone has died, but why them, you know?

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. I'm sure someone can express it better than I have.

Those are very good points, and good questions too.

With me, I don't really have that much of an attachment to him. I wasn't really a fan, wasn't into the whole poppy genre, but I did like some of his songs, and it's probably only since I've been older that I really appreciated the degree of his talent. And the fact is, for anyone that has any memory of that era, he was HUGE for several years. Like, legendary huge. Elvis huge. Beatles huge. A genuine cultural icon.

As for the rest, I've followed his life, the seedier side of it, and to me the whole thing is just sad. I won't repeat what I said earlier in the thread, but I've always felt badly for the guy, and that he essentially became a freak show. I'm glad that all of that hasn't overshadowed his incredible career *too* much. I guess the way I approach him is, I tend to separate the cute, precociously talented kid they show in old video clips, and the solo performer he became from the wreck his personal life ended up being. He was a mess, and I'm sorry that there was no one in his life with the power to step in and get him some help.

 

[deep]

And there's a difference between having photography books featuring naked children, and not having those books.

Was the book kitty porn?

Did Pete Townsend have more incriminating images than M J?

 

[Lancemc]

Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.

Kind of like Randy the Ram.

 

[LMP]

Those are very good points, and good questions too.

With me, I don't really have that much of an attachment to him. I wasn't really a fan, wasn't into the whole poppy genre, but I did like some of his songs, and it's probably only since I've been older that I really appreciated the degree of his talent. And the fact is, for anyone that has any memory of that era, he was HUGE for several years. Like, legendary huge. Elvis huge. Beatles huge. A genuine cultural icon.

As for the rest, I've followed his life, the seedier side of it, and to me the whole thing is just sad. I won't repeat what I said earlier in the thread, but I've always felt badly for the guy, and that he essentially became a freak show. I'm glad that all of that hasn't overshadowed his incredible career *too* much. I guess the way I approach him is, I tend to separate the cute, precociously talented kid they show in old video clips, and the solo performer he became from the wreck his personal life ended up being. He was a mess, and I'm sorry that there was no one in his life with the power to step in and get him some help.

Thanks.

I agree with pretty much all you said there. It's literally like aliens abducted the guy in the mid-'80s (between the Thriller/Bad eras) and brought back some freak show. There's really no way to describe it.

 

[lazarus]

Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.

Correct.

But as I said, he didn't harm anyone (aside from the loss his loved ones suffered), didn't dangle his baby over a balcony, didn't exhibit all kinds of deranged behavior (not including his Joker performance).

 

[deep]

The thing about child molesters
is that they seem to have a need to have their urges satisfied

there are multiple victims, that is why so many Catholic priests got nailed

victims come out of the woodwork

that is not the case with MJ

and he was a very attractive target

 

[lazarus]

Was the book kitty porn?

Did Pete Townsend have more incriminating images than M J?

From Wiki:

"As part of the Operation Ore investigations, Townshend was cautioned by the police in 2003 after acknowledging a credit card access in 1999 to the Landslide website alleged to advertise child pornography.[11][12] He stated in the press and on his website that he had been engaged in research for A Different Bomb (a now-abandoned book based on an anti-child pornography essay published on his website in January 2002) and his autobiography, and as part of a campaign against child pornography. The police searched his house and confiscated fourteen computers and other materials, and after a four-month forensic investigation confirmed that they had found no evidence of child abuse images. Consequently, the police offered a caution rather than pressing charges, issuing a statement: "After four months of investigation by officers from Scotland Yard's child protection group, it was established that Mr Townshend was not in possession of any downloaded child abuse images." In a statement issued by his solicitor,[13] Townshend said, "I accept that I was wrong to access this site, and that by doing so, I broke the law, and I have accepted the caution that the police have given me." As a statutory consequence of accepting the caution, Townshend was entered on the Violent and Sex Offender Register for five years.[14]

In April 2007, an article in The Guardian stated that Townshend was "falsely accused of accessing child pornography".[15] After obtaining copies of the Landslide hard drives and tracing Townshend's actions, investigative journalist Duncan Campbell wrote in PC Pro Magazine, "Under pressure of the media filming of the raid, Townshend appears to have confessed to something he didn't do." Campbell states that their entire evidence against Townshend was that he accessed a single site among the Landslide offerings which was not connected with child pornography. The authorities that deal with these websites admitted long afterward that Townshend had indeed contacted them immediately with the information, yet declined to speak publicly about this at the time of his arrest.[16]"

Jackson said his nude children photo books (PLURAL) were art and that he had the right to own them. Which is fine on its own, but combined with everything else? Fairly damning.

 

[Sicy]

Sicy, the majority of what you said seems all well and good, but who else are you including in that "controversial" category? There's a difference between someone who was difficult to live with or treated their family like shit, and what MJ has in his bio.

Well the Saddam thread Tiger_Edge linked to was a good example. There have been others that have received similar responses like this. Regardless of how terrible people think someone was, if they were famous, or infamous, or some type of high profile celebrity, there will be a large amount of people that still feel a sense of loss with their passing, and want to be able to pay respects or appreciate without wading through shit loads of rude and insensitive posts. I dont think its too much to ask to have a place for those people to mourn. That's all I'm saying.

 

[lazarus]

People were paying their respects to Saddam Hussein??

 

[deep]

Correct.

didn't dangle his baby over a balcony, didn't exhibit all kinds of deranged behavior .

I can't tell you how many times I have seen fathers tossing their babies up in the air like a sack of potatoes, bugs the shit out of me,
one slip, and they end up a regular poster in here

just seems like you and some others have a huge hard on for MJ

yes, he was eccentric, odd, to say the least

but that baby most likely has had a better life than most because MJ was his father

 

[kafrun]

I haven't read most of this thread, so this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but my brother posted this as his Facebook status and I agreed with the thought:

"RIP Michael Jackson. A True Performer. I wonder how all these people making jokes would feel if they, or someone they love, fucked up, died, and everyone just pissed all over their memory without acknowledging the good things they did."

Sorry if I'm just reiterating what others have already said, I just wanted to add it.

 

[VintagePunk]

Thanks.

I agree with pretty much all you said there. It's literally like aliens abducted the guy in the mid-'80s (between the Thriller/Bad eras) and brought back some freak show. There's really no way to describe it.

Exactly. The only logical explanation for his behaviour is that he was mentally ill, and had no one that was willing to step in and help him.

Or, there's the alien abduction theory, if you prefer.

 

[LMP]

It's also how I explain Aerosmith's "comeback," but that's debatable.

People were paying their respects to Saddam Hussein??

If Obama can try and shut down the Autobots, anything can happen.