words to a selected group of people at this forum

[Henry Rollins]

This is directed to the people who do not want to go after the terrorist groups and the nations that might be partly responsible for this attack or are contuining to support these terrorist groups even after this attack, I ask you one simple question:

What is a better way to gurantee the safety of Americans in the future from terrorist attacks other than rooting them out and destroying them?

History has taught me that peace has come from justice and not by doing nothing in situations like these. How effective would be doing nothing or trying to reason would have been with people like Hitler? I am sure all of you know that it wouldn't have. The people that committed these acts are not reasonable men at all, they are men who only want to destroy the usa, thats it. When you actually look at the taliban you find more and more similarities to Hitler than one might expect. I don't mind people saying they don't war but they better speak of other ways in which the safety of not only the American people but people all over the world will be better guranteed. I am personally offended by the people who do not want to nothing in this situation. Doing nothing is a direct slap in the face to the people who have suffered here. It is like saying 5,000 dead bodies in the streets isn't worth doing anything. And you know what, will the people that want to do nothing still want to do nothing when the terrorists launch attacks a thousand times worse with such weapons as nuclear bombs and anthrax?

I don't just blame the terrorists here, I am also mad at some U.S. laws that made it easier for these things to happen but even with that, the terrorists are still at the heart of the problem and they must be dealt with. I am not calling for out war at all, that would be insane and with the terrain of Afghanistan, probably kill way too many troops. What I do want is an investigation into those responsible and justice brought to them and to rid the world of these terrorists groups who find it their purpose to destroy the usa. This isn't impossible at all, we have the intelligence to find them.

I also predict that another man is going to get a lot of the major blame for this attack in the coming weeks and that is going to be Saddam Hussein and since it is likely he is holding biological weapons he is not afraid to use against the usa and likely will use against the usa in the future, it seems only more of a directive to go and take him out before this matter worsens any more. Politics within the usa held it back from getting rid of the problems it has had for over the last decade, now with the usa united, we must take advantage of this situation for if we don't, it will only get worse.

That is what I want, I am very open to other ways of better guranteeing people safety against terrorists.

~rougerum

[TylerDurden]

Originally posted by Henry Rollins:


I also predict that another man is going to get a lot of the major blame for this attack in the coming weeks and that is going to be Saddam Hussein
~rougerum

I agree. I think the US knows a little more then they are saying (which you would expect, and is fair enough) I mean, do you really need THAT much firepower over there just for the Taleban? My bet is another country, probably Iraq (they now know that there are direct links between the '93 WTC bombing and Iraq) is involved and they are going to get nailed as well.
I've got alot more to say on your topic in general but I'm trying to juggle a fucking fantastic pizza as I'm writing this so I'll be back...

[80sU2isBest]

Amen, Mr. Rollins!

[speedracer]

Originally posted by TylerDurden:
I agree. I think the US knows a little more then they are saying (which you would expect, and is fair enough) I mean, do you really need THAT much firepower over there just for the Taleban? My bet is another country, probably Iraq (they now know that there are direct links between the '93 WTC bombing and Iraq) is involved and they are going to get nailed as well.

I certainly hope the military knows what it's doing if it attacks Iraq. If they don't knock out Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction (biological weapons, perhaps some nukes?) with a first strike, disaster may result.

[foray]

Hi rouge,

This is directed to the people who do not want to go after the terrorist groups and the nations that might be partly responsible for this attack or are contuining to support these terrorist groups even after this attack

I guess this doesn't mean me, since I do think the guilty ought to be weeded out. Still, I'd like to reply to this.

How effective would be doing nothing or trying to reason would have been with people like Hitler?

Just in case we are misunderstanding each other, I didn't advocate 'doing nothing' in my statement in another thread.

I don't just blame the terrorists here, I am also mad at some U.S. laws that made it easier for these things to happen

That's reasonable of you; I hadn't heard this mentioned by others before.

What I do want is an investigation into those responsible and justice brought to them and to rid the world of these terrorists groups who find it their purpose to destroy the usa. This isn't impossible at all, we have the intelligence to find them.

Yes, I am all for that, too.

foray

[Cow of the Seas]

i dont think i really have a good enough reply in mind. i am one of the individuals you are referring to, and i cant honestly say i can come up with a comprehensive plan that would exclude violence to stop terrorism. however, that doesnt mean that i or someone else WONT come up with an idea in the future...

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-death bear

[MSU2mike]

Originally posted by Cow of the Seas:
i dont think i really have a good enough reply in mind. i am one of the individuals you are referring to, and i cant honestly say i can come up with a comprehensive plan that would exclude violence to stop terrorism. however, that doesnt mean that i or someone else WONT come up with an idea in the future...

How far in the future?

After the Sears Tower goes down?
After another embassy is bombed?
After a biological agent is released into the Bay Area's water supply?
How many more people have to die here while we wait for a resolution that doesn't involve violence in any manner?



[This message has been edited by MSU2mike (edited 09-21-2001).]

[Henry Rollins]

Sorry Foray, I didn't have the chance to read your thread at all so I wasn't at all making this thread as a reply to yours. I actually have hardly been reading the forum at all anymore, I have been too busy. Most of the people I am directing this at where the people I heard in chat.

I also would like to point out another thing that looks like is going to happen from this I am not going to like. It is no secret USA is trying to get as many allies as possible and many controversial countries are hesitant to throw their support in ways USA wants. So what you will get are compromises like USA being more leliant in all the wrong China does as to gurantee their support during this war. This is going to happen with other countries as well and I am not a fan of it.

~rougerum

[Trash Can]

You make some good points Hank.

You know, like Ive said in another thread, we have NO choice but to defend ourselves... Thing is, I'm afraid there will be NO "winners" here.

We will all lose.

I fear that once we start going after bin Laden and his thugs, the whole Islamic Middle East will rise up (even more) in hatred towards us. A new wave of terror will arise. It will be very ugly. We will have much much more to cry over.

But, if we don't do anything, we are screwed anyway, because they WILL continue to come after us in any case.

The only way for "world peace" is for all of the Western World to surrender to the Fundementalist Islam world and beg for mercy.

And that is NEVER going to happen!!!

It is very sad, but military action is our only choice.

[melon]

Well, I've consigned myself to the fact that military action is inevitable, but...

--don't expect me to openly support it (i.e., display patriotic garb)
--don't expect me to get involved (i.e., enlist)

I really just want to get on with my life, and this whole talk of war is ruining my mental health... Maybe some people can handle it, but, perhaps sadly, I cannot.

Melon

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How long must we sing this song?!

[foray]

Originally posted by melon:
Well, I've consigned myself to the fact that military action is inevitable, but...

--don't expect me to openly support it (i.e., display patriotic garb)
--don't expect me to get involved (i.e., enlist)

I really just want to get on with my life, and this whole talk of war is ruining my mental health... Maybe some people can handle it, but, perhaps sadly, I cannot.

Melon

I feel the same way.

foray

[The Wanderer]

it's all very good to say you don't want to get involved and just want to go on with your life, but i'm sure that won't solve the problem either, you can't just stay neutral when you are the target

[melon]

Well, that's it.

My support, protest, or neutrality on this conflict has no bearing on what will happen.

As a result, I am trying to get some sense of normalcy back into my life. I don't want to think about it anymore. I am an artist, not a warrior. I am making a fond farewell to that horrible day, September 11th, and I want to go back to normal. Somehow. Some way. "Normal" does not mean dwelling on what I cannot change.

Oh if only I could close my eyes and this horrible world would just go away...

Melon

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How long must we sing this song?!

[Not George Lucas]

I tend to agree with melon on this matter.

I also want to point out that I'm completely and absolutely against violence. I'm not going to pretend I have the answers, but I do know that war is not one of them.

[Klodomir]

Not even a clone war?

[Angela Harlem]

All I can say is the problem with this current wave of terrorism is a short term issue. By all means they need to be brought to justice, and violently if needed. Although I hate to say that.

But after that, you have a more long term problem of sorting out what the problem really is. Now whatever that may be, violence may very well not be the only method of effectively fighting it. In fact I would hate to think it is, because that would mean America and every other target country needs to be prepared for constrant battles with these groups.

Remember violence is the means to an end for these people. It comes from their original problems they have with America. Firstly sort out this attack, then focus on what the issues really are. No one wants repeats of this.

[Not George Lucas]

Klodomir - Ha!

Help! The clones are attacking!!

[Miss MacPhisto]

Very well said, Henry .(Moulin)
I agree with almost everything you said ( I say almost, because i'm in a hurry and just skimmed over everything - i'll go back to it tomorrow).
And i too dont just exclusively blame the terrorists, i am PISSED at the US government for not doing anything to stop them. They know better. they knew this guy was planning something. And airport security is nothing but a sick joke. They attack 11 year olds for admitting that they didnt pack their own bags - their mommy did - but then they go and let the real criminals on. Fools. There are a few things airport security could have done to stop them, and there are MANY things the US government could have done. If i were related to any of the victims, i would sue.
The terrorists should be killed, and the responsible parties in the government should be jailed. No mercy, and no forgiveness here. They make me sick.
What really should also be done is send those twits to catch the terrorists themselves!!! Send them over to Afganistan! I'd do almost anything to see that! They are partly responsible , now they must pay the price for their crime.
I dont much care if they get killed while doing it, I just dont want to see any innocent members of the military hurt.
Send the pols instead!

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Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

[MysteryGirl]

A couple years ago, when I went on my annual trip to visit family in South Florida, I forgot that I had a box-cutter in my carry-on backpack. It was from work and I forgot to take it out. The airport security caught it and took the blade out. I fail to understand why they didn't catch those terrorists! To top it off, some of the terrorists lived in my parents' neighborhood in Delray Beach. Florida. That creeps me out. I do not like violence as a rule, but too much has happened, and it has got to stop!!