Women's Equality Amendment

[A_Wanderer]

^ But surely the only way to get equality is to drag the dominant group down?

 

[financeguy]

^ But surely the only way to get equality is to drag the dominant group down?

Well, that would probably be the socialist point of view, yes.

 

[Irvine511]

Feminism is essentially built on a tissue of lies.

In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.

However, I wouldn't expect the self-regarding navel-gazing 'liberal' coterie on here to realise that.

that's a big statement, self-flattering insults aside.

can you unpack this?

 

[Diemen]

Men are discriminated against?

Are you saying that if everyone were treated equally and were hired and promoted purely on their talents, males would still occupy the vast majority of top tier positions, and would be promoted faster and to better positions?

Or that since females are starting to penetrate the top tier more and more, that it must be because males are being discriminated against?

 

[financeguy]

that's a big statement, self-flattering insults aside.

can you unpack this?

(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

(If the situation was the reverse, i.e. if men had a higher life expectancy, imagine the outcry and demands that something be done to rectify the situation)


(2) Jobs

Many employers are now actively discriminating against men, and have been for some time.

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)


(3) Education

It appears that many top universities are actively discriminating in favour of female applicants, particularly in engineering and science courses.


(4) Paternity

The abundance of evidence from the family law courts in many Western countries, especially the UK and Ireland, testifies to nothing short of an active, prolonged and vindictive assault on fathers' rights.

 

[anitram]

(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

This might just be the most ignorant statement on FYM. First of all, how do you account for the fact that men choose to participate in activities which shorten their lifespan in numbers much higher than women? How much of the death rate can be attributed to smoking alone (significant difference in rate)? How much of the lifespan can be attributed to genetic differences (are telomeres different in females? what about proportion of body fat and the role it plays?)? What about the fact that women are more compliant with doctors orders and have higher rates of annual or at least regular physical exams (again, something voluntary)?

I could go on and on. But CLEARLY there is discrimination.

 

[INDY500]

This might just be the most ignorant statement on FYM.

I demand a recount.

 

[martha]

I demand a recount.

You might want to reconsider your demand.

 

[martha]

In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.

Poor thing. You've only gotten to run the show for several thousand years. Now that we gals want a fair share of the pie, it hurts a little.

 

[martha]

In Western societies, from health care to jobs to education to paternal rights , it is men that are discriminated against, not women.

This just occured to me: you should be supporting an equal rights amendment because your rights would be as equally protected as mine. And before your boxers get all wadded up, go back and actually read the full text of the actual amendment. It doesn't mention women; it mentions sex. Which also means MEN.

 

[Bono's shades]

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)

You mean a woman can become a mother and not have to worry about losing her job? Just like a man doesn't have to give a second thought about losing his job if he becomes a father??

GASP! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO??

 

[BonosSaint]

(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

(If the situation was the reverse, i.e. if men had a higher life expectancy, imagine the outcry and demands that something be done to rectify the situation)


(2) Jobs

Many employers are now actively discriminating against men, and have been for some time.

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)


(3) Education

It appears that many top universities are actively discriminating in favour of female applicants, particularly in engineering and science courses.


(4) Paternity

The abundance of evidence from the family law courts in many Western countries, especially the UK and Ireland, testifies to nothing short of an active, prolonged and vindictive assault on fathers' rights.

Both sides face discrimination of some sort.

But let's see:


Health:

Viagra is covered under insurance. Fertility treatments are not. Oftentimes you will find health issues focused on men's quality of life and ignoring women's. Many of the health strides made by women are because women banded together and forced those strides. Prior to, testing was usually done on men (white men) in areas such as heart disease, etc., ignoring the different physiology and making assumptions without comprehensive testing. Men haven't often been in the position of demanding something because they have so often been given it as their due. They were the test target.

There is as much focus on prostrate cancer as there is on breast cancer.

Jobs:

I assume you have never seen men allowed to get away with inferior job performance. In US, we call it old boy's network or golden parachute. Or often political appointees (See old boy's network).

There has been a significant drive to include men in parental leave, offering the same guarantees. Most men are choosing not to take it. Now I will agree with you that most men don't take it because it would probably adversely affect them with their companies even if allowed. So I will give you that women are much more protected in that.

Education: I don't know the numbers, but I would guess that the women are being favored because their numbers are so low in representation because men were artificially favored for so long. I would also think that it was to encourage young women to study science and math more by giving them more role models.
We had a thread a while back about a transgendered scientist who received high peer marks as a man and considerably lower peer marks after he transgendered into a woman (from the people who did not know about the transgendering). I think that women may be favored here to dispel an ugly stereotype.

Paternity: Yeah, guys are fucked unfairly regarding custody. In US, though, some changes are being made (because of men banding together) to increase father custody which is having some effect and I think that is a good thing even if it's one of the few things women are dominant in.

So women basically win handsdown on the issue of motherhood.
Yay! Unfortunately, I'm not a mother. So my friends and I are fucked. I won't speak for any place other than the US, but it is the US Constitution that is the thread topic.

Does it take so little to threaten you? I wouldn't have thought so. If one sex is truly dominant after both being given equal opportunity and circumstance and expectations and treatment, and that dominance is based on objective review of ability and if that ability is germane, then so be it. You want your best and brightest? Many of them will be women. Many of them will be men. But we really don't know. We do know that men are often afforded more respect just because they are men (as women are often afforded more sympathy because they are women) Women are niched more often than men, sometimes by their own acquiescence. I won't argue that. And if women don't take advantage of the opportunities afforded to us, then it's on us.

I feel bad for any man superceded by someone of either sex less competent than he is. I also feel bad for any woman superceded by someone less competent than she is. It's the perceptions I question.

 

[Irvine511]

what is certainly very true, ERA or not, is that women -- in particular, white women -- have always been the #1 beneficiaries of Affirmative Action programs.

 

[BonosSaint]

True.

 

[trevster2k]

Life for men in Ireland must be a living hell.

Don't forget that women make more money than men in the adult film industry too. It's outrageous. They should be put in their place.

 

[LJT]

Life for men in Ireland must be a living hell.

It is the women are just too hot here

 

[BVS]

(1) Health

It is fairly clear given that the live expectancy of women is so much higher than men there is some form of discrimination going on here.

(If the situation was the reverse, i.e. if men had a higher life expectancy, imagine the outcry and demands that something be done to rectify the situation)


(2) Jobs

Many employers are now actively discriminating against men, and have been for some time.

Look at the situation in banking, for example, where all the top banks are afraid to death of being sued - this leads to a situation where some (and I emphasize some) women are sometimes allowed to get away with inferior work performance, and/or exploit or take advantage of maternity leave requirements, for example. (In Europe, employers are obliged to keep positions for women on maternity leave more or less indefinitely)


(3) Education

It appears that many top universities are actively discriminating in favour of female applicants, particularly in engineering and science courses.


(4) Paternity

The abundance of evidence from the family law courts in many Western countries, especially the UK and Ireland, testifies to nothing short of an active, prolonged and vindictive assault on fathers' rights.

Wow, I haven't seen such uninformed speculation and ignorance in a long time...

Your health example is just terrible, do you even know what you are talking about?

Jobs, that's a pretty weak example, any support for this inferior work?

Education, it "appears" this way? Seriously, that's all you have? Do you have any idea the numbers of men vs women who are applying for these jobs and pursuing these jobs?

Paternity, this one is laughable. Do you have any idea how many men don't fight for custody? Don't want full custody?

Think about what you write...

 

[martha]

Do you have any idea how many men don't fight for custody? Don't want full custody?

And leave the children in poverty.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Life for men in Ireland must be a living hell.

Don't forget that women make more money than men in the adult film industry too. It's outrageous. They should be put in their place.

And they do it without government interference

 

[financeguy]

Wow, I haven't seen such uninformed speculation and ignorance in a long time...

........

Paternity, this one is laughable. Do you have any idea how many men don't fight for custody? Don't want full custody?

Think about what you write...

I think it is helpful, when one criticizes one poster's contribution for a perceived lack of evidential back-up, that one actually provides some evidence for one's point of view oneself, wouldn't you?

Discrimination against fathers by the family law courts is very well attested to, very well researched by objective observers and has been shown in numerous studies.

There are numerous examples of studies which show this on the internet and in the publishing media, I am surprised you are not aware of this.

My own personal view is that this discrimination is due to infiltration by extremist feminism of the family law court structure and of the profession of social work. That is just a personal opinion, mind - but it is pretty unarguable, frankly, that such discrimination takes place.

I attach a link to just one website which deals with the issue - there are hundreds of others.

http://www.coeffic.demon.co.uk/

 

[martha]

My own personal view is that this discrimination is due to infiltration by extremist feminism of the family law court structure and of the profession of social work.

I agree only that there needs to be some equality in child custody. But to blame the problem on some vast feminist conspiracy is really laughable.

There are just so many girl judges running roughshod over you poor boys. Is that it?

eta: And, once again, an Equal Rights Amendment would help remedy this problem, wouldn't it?

 

[financeguy]

I agree only that there needs to be some equality in child custody. But to blame the problem on some vast feminist conspiracy is really laughable.

There are just so many girl judges running roughshod over you poor boys. Is that it?

I see that you have not even troubled to research the facts of the issue, but are addressing ONE part of my post, where I made it abundantly clear that I was expressing a personal opinion.

To be honest, you are one of the posters on here that would benefit the most from learning about this issue.

Your second sentence speaks volumes.

 

[financeguy]

eta: And, once again, an Equal Rights Amendment would help remedy this problem, wouldn't it?

I never said I was against an Equal Rights Amendment.

 

[martha]

Your second sentence speaks volumes.

I'm glad you were able to understand the message.

 

[Vincent Vega]

But your age discrimination, that women's life expectancy is higher than men's, was hopefully meant sarcastically

 

[martha]

To be honest, you are one of the posters on here that would benefit the most from learning about this issue.

Then educate me. Show me how in the goddam world men have been discriminated against more than women. Please enlighten all of us about how fucking tough you have it because you're a man. Please. Do it.

 

[martha]

But your age discrimination, that women's life expectancy is higher than men's, was hopefully meant sarcastically

I doubt it. Form other posts in FYM and other parts of Interference, I know that FG has some serious trouble with women. From what I can tell, he truly does believe we are out to get him.

 

[Vincent Vega]

^There's gone my little hope

You know how hard we have it.
Think of the numerous people in the military that can't serve with either gays or women because their very presence makes the men too uncomfortable

 

[financeguy]

I'm glad you were able to understand the message.

It speaks volumes because it seems to indicate that you really don't want to consider the issue at all, you would prefer to see it purely in terms of trogoldyte males wanting to turn the clock back.

Fathers looking for access to their kids shouldn't really be getting ideas above their station - they're probably wife beaters or child abusers - and even if they're not, well, they are after all, MEN, and therefore automatically collectively GUILTY.

Not very liberal or progressive, is it?

 

[Vincent Vega]

It speaks volumes because it seems to indicate that you really don't want to consider the issue at all, you would prefer to see it purely in terms of trogoldyte males wanting to turn the clock back.

Fathers looking for access to their kids shouldn't really be getting ideas above their station - they're probably wife beaters or child abusers - and even if they're not, well, they are after all, MEN, and therefore automatically collectively GUILTY.

Not very liberal or progressive, is it?

While I accept that men really find it harder to get custody for their children, because I've read several articles about this very topic, I think yiu just draw the wrong conclusion when it comes to the reasons for this "discrimination".