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Old 02-08-2002, 01:32 PM   #21
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I had this sentiment on another thread here....concerning patriotism. I was too lazy to make another reply ....


There is nothing wrong with showing pride in country and patriotism...among ourselves. Do we really need to bombard the rest of the world with it all the time? They know who we are and what we stand for ...why drive it into the ground ? I can't imagine how it would be if say every time we turned on the tv or watched a movie we had to endure another sermon on the greatness of Aby Daby (or whatever) I would soon get tired of it...as I'm sure they would get tired of us praising ourselves all the time. We can still be proud of ourselves without making them feel like a bunch of wet socks because they are not one of us or making them angry because they know they enjoy the same things we do in their 'free' country.

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Old 02-08-2002, 05:54 PM   #22
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I've been watching CNN off and on today and the IOC said that the US could not fly their falg above all others, which was the plan.

At least someone has some sense. Anything the US enters usually seems like a popularity contest. Everyone trying to be better then the US and the US brushing everyone off. I can feel the patritism coming now. On CNN, to show that they arnt biased, they have assigned a britsh reporter to the olypics. Give me a break. Thats even worse then assigning an american.

Also on the for us or againist us thing.

I must agree it was the stupidest things i have ever heard. It is the biggest form of arogance. Who the fuck are you to tell the whole world that. And your arguement Bubba:

If we suspect terrorist cells in a country, that country will be asked to help us root out the cells. If they don't, they're de facto choosing to side with the terrorists.

Who are you to say what a cell is and what is wrong with my country. Can my country not 'root' out that cell ourselves. Not everyone agrees with the US. Just like not everyone agrees with you. For example, if Canada said to the US we will find our cells and get rid of them. No help from you. Would we then be againist you. NO. we just dont need the US sticking its noses in our business.


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Old 02-08-2002, 06:41 PM   #23
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I'd love for someone to explain to me why "If you're not with us then you're against us" is a stupid or ridiculous statement.

Frankly, I think it's pretty cut and dried.

If you take steps to keep terrorism out of your country you're with us. If you support terror organizations or are otherwise indifferent to them you aren't doing the world any favors, and are thus against us.

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Old 02-08-2002, 06:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman:
Who are you to say what a cell is and what is wrong with my country. Can my country not 'root' out that cell ourselves. Not everyone agrees with the US. Just like not everyone agrees with you. For example, if Canada said to the US we will find our cells and get rid of them. No help from you. Would we then be againist you. NO. we just dont need the US sticking its noses in our business.
No, of course that wouldn't be "against us." And guess what? I really don't think anyone would be accusing you of conspiring against the U.S. or the rest of the world either. Take care of it yourself, that's great. Even better, actually.

One absolute truth in matters like these are that if the U.S. gets involved elsewhere we're chided for sticking our nose in other's business. And if we don't get involved everyone bitches that we aren't doing enough to help out. It's a Catch-22.

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Old 02-08-2002, 07:17 PM   #25
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I know I am just a simple-minded, backward American but I wonder if any of you "enlightened" Europeans have ever heard of a thing called the Marshall Plan? If not you might wanna look it up, you guys owe all your prosperity today to us. So why don't you solve your own problems instead of constantly critiquing our society. At some point, anti-American statements stop being corrective criticism and they simply become a really bad mask for petty jealousy.

Again, tear me apart because like I said, I'm only a lowly American, a barbarian by most world standards and to top it off, I'm a Californian at that!
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Old 02-08-2002, 08:07 PM   #26
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There are times when over the top patriotism is out of place, and Americans have the reputation around the world for going over the top more then anyone else, but for gods sake it's the friggin Olympics and I spent the 2 weeks of the Sydney Olympics wrapped in an Australian flag yelling myself stupid drinking like a fish and having the time of my life going absolutely nuts supporting Australia and being proud to be Australian and no way was anyone telling me this isn't the best country in the world and I'd advise all the Americans here to do the same. Go nuts.

Tattoo your whole body red, white and blue. Scream your lungs out. Have a great f***n' time. I'd love to have the Olympics back here because that's what it's all about.

I mean seriously, if you can't go nuts for your country at a sporting event, and can't be proud of your country during an Olympics (since when has the host countries culture not completely dominated the 'vibe' of the Olympics?) then something is way wrong.

Just keep Celine Dion away. Please.

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Old 02-09-2002, 10:29 AM   #27
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
Also.. Where would you be bombarded with such patriotism?.. I'm wondering where you have people wiping all this in your faces as if it were soiled toilet paper?.. Because one would think that in your own country, I wouldn't think people would be running around touting America as the Salvational Land.

Oh.. and just a suggestion Olofski.. instead of relating something to an 'orgie', I think Douche-Fest would be more appropriate


Television, but I have to say that the opening-ceremony was really beautiful so I appologise for thinking it would be crap. Sorry!

Well since I havenīt really used English for a year my phrases might not be up to date, so no more orgies from my side.

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Old 02-09-2002, 10:51 AM   #28
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Originally posted by MSU2mike:
I'd love for someone to explain to me why "If you're not with us then you're against us" is a stupid or ridiculous statement.
Frankly, I think it's pretty cut and dried.


No, itīs not pretty cut and dried and I will give you an example:
By the end of 2001 USA posted a blacklist with people all over the world that they thought were connected with terrorism. On that list there were three Swedes, Abdirisak Aden, Yusuf Ahmed Ali and Abdulaziz Ali, they were members of a community called al-Barakaat a Bankingorganization from Somalia. Without presenting any evidence USA ordered the UN, EU and Sweden that their assets were to be freezed. The Swedish security-police says that there are no evidence what so ever that they are onvolved in terrorist-organizations. They are now labeled as terrorists and canīt get money for rent and people who are trying to collect money for them is braking the law.

IF Sweden would open their accounts or give them money, we would be accused of housing terrorists.

All Iīm saying is that the world doesnīt have two sides, for or against. Itīs packed with different opinions and saying like Bush that there are only two sides of this story is just stupid.

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Old 02-09-2002, 10:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Olofski:


Television, but I have to say that the opening-ceremony was really beautiful so I appologise for thinking it would be crap. Sorry!

[/B]
Ah.. Swedish Television is going to have ri-cock-u-lous amounts of American Patriotism????

Explain that one..

But agreed.. THe opening ceremony was excellent, I loved the dancing cowboys.. Only in AMerica.. We love our Cowboys and Saloons!!

And R. Kelly.. What an amazing Musician.

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

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Old 02-09-2002, 11:09 AM   #30
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Originally posted by ocu2fan:
I know I am just a simple-minded, backward American but I wonder if any of you "enlightened" Europeans have ever heard of a thing called the Marshall Plan? If not you might wanna look it up, you guys owe all your prosperity today to us. So why don't you solve your own problems instead of constantly critiquing our society. At some point, anti-American statements stop being corrective criticism and they simply become a really bad mask for petty jealousy.

First of all Europe isnīt one united continent. The countries that stood outside the war in Europe does NOT owe the Americans their wealth today! So to say that Europeans owe all our prosperity today to the USA, is going to far. Yes, the US payed a LOT of money and Iīm sure that the continent is very thankful for that.

Letīs make one thing clear Iīm not jealous of USA. Belive me I would love to go there and see the country, itīs one of my dreams to see USA, and I love a LOT of thigs that comes from USA. But I can honestly say that Iīm not jealous of USA. Itīs arrogant comments like that, that makes the rest of the world dislike USA. Everything you have over there we have here aswell, and with a history that stretches more than 300 years.

And to make one thing clear, Iīm not trying to dizz the Marshal-plan.

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Old 02-09-2002, 11:16 AM   #31
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
Ah.. Swedish Television is going to have ri-cock-u-lous amounts of American Patriotism????

Explain that one..


Well since they are broadcasting a world-wide event taking place in the USA, my guess is that they will show a lot from, The United States of America. And during those broadcasts I think there is a chance that I will see a lot of American patrionism.

But Iīve heard that the IOC has ordered the organizers to cut down on it so it doesnīt get like Atlanta 96. So maybe, Iīm wrong about how this olympics will look like to the rest of the world. Hope so, I guess weīll see during the next two weeks.

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Old 02-09-2002, 12:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Olofski:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
Ah.. Swedish Television is going to have ri-cock-u-lous amounts of American Patriotism????

Explain that one..


Well since they are broadcasting a world-wide event taking place in the USA, my guess is that they will show a lot from, The United States of America. And during those broadcasts I think there is a chance that I will see a lot of American patrionism.

But Iīve heard that the IOC has ordered the organizers to cut down on it so it doesnīt get like Atlanta 96. So maybe, Iīm wrong about how this olympics will look like to the rest of the world. Hope so, I guess weīll see during the next two weeks.


Ya'll don't have like a SNN.. (Swedish News Network)... Or television stations that focus on Swedish Athletes et al.. rather than our stations which appropriately focus on American Athletes and the top competitors.

Do you just rely on the Feeds from NBC?

I'm just curious?

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Old 02-09-2002, 12:35 PM   #33
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Yes and possibly in a very bad way. Last nigt on the news instead of a Wisconsin girl who died giving birth to an infant who later died in a U of W dorm room being the first story, hell even before the story of an 11 yr old murder being solved and the guy who did it could have done several others being first in the news, it was an olympic story. A woman from Minnesota is to carry the American flag from the WTC into the Olympic stadium. Good story, but 1st? NO!! Murders and deaths are going on and THIS! OUTRAGE!!! BAH! Sorry about that. Just angry. Patriotism is fine and dandy, let's just keep it controlled ok?

-end transmission-

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Old 02-09-2002, 01:17 PM   #34
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well,I gotta say that I was positively surprised by opening ceremony it was very good I just have a few "complaints"
and that is mixing Sport and politics and this isnīt the first time it happens so this isnīt really pointed at the US,well of course it is this time but I think it was just as bad when Germany or the Soviet Union did it!
First you take the land from the Native americans but when all the worlds eyes are focused on USA you show them up like they are circus freaks or something...

And the flag from Ground Zero!
This confirmed all my fears
I think that if it had been done in the purpose of honoring the people who has been murdered I support it but this was clearly done to be used as a political statement.
The Olympics wasnīt the right forum for such things 50 years ago and it isnīt today either.
I think it was a very rotten thing to do,What do you think it must have felt like
to be a muslim and stand there and watch this......


The Olympics is about sports not politics!!

But all in all I think that the Games will be really enjoyable!

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Old 02-09-2002, 02:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonboy:


And the flag from Ground Zero!
This confirmed all my fears
I think that if it had been done in the purpose of honoring the people who has been murdered I support it but this was clearly done to be used as a political statement.
The Olympics wasnīt the right forum for such things 50 years ago and it isnīt today either.
I think it was a very rotten thing to do,What do you think it must have felt like
to be a muslim and stand there and watch this......


White Christians were not the only ones killed in the attacks.. Jews.. Blacks.. Asians.. and even MUSLIMS (Excluding the Terrorists) were killed...

Beside that point.. Which muslims are you referencing?.. The ones who are the radicals twisting every verse of the Koran into some sort of 'Kill Western Society' Sentiment?.. or the ones including some in this forum, who were just as hurt.. just as touched.. And Just as Enraged that someone in the name of their god could Kill 3000 people?

I think you need to specify which group of Muslims you were talking about...

Your statement does not apply to the Muslims of peace, Americans or not.. And if they felt that they were being included.. Well, then they can blame the terrorists for any of this terrible racial profiling that may occur...

However, If a Radical Muslim.. perhpas Bin Laden himself had to sit and watch us remember those Americans... Europeans.. Africans.. Asians.. and Australians.. who were killed, or whose families were touched by that moment.. Then I hope he choked on vomit.

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Old 02-09-2002, 04:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonboy:
Well I think it is as distasteful of U2 to scroll the names of dead people on their screens.
And Bonos USA-jacket is just beyond pathetic ass-kissing!

So now you know what I think!!
I usually don't reply with something as simple (and usually inexplicable) as U2 lyrics, but here it is:

Sean and Julia
Gareth, Ann, and Breda


Sometimes it helps to remember that individual lives were lost, not just a faceless number.
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Old 02-09-2002, 04:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I usually don't reply with something as simple (and usually inexplicable) as U2 lyrics, but here it is:

Sean and Julia
Gareth, Ann, and Breda


Sometimes it helps to remember that individual lives were lost, not just a faceless number.

You are quite a wordtwister!!
Maybe you should run for president!!!

Of course it isnīt a "faceless number"

Itīs the neverending exploation of a tradgedy im against!!!


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Old 02-09-2002, 05:13 PM   #38
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But I don't think what U2 did was eploitation.
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Old 02-10-2002, 03:49 AM   #39
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Well said Lemonite,
These people that are attacking the USA for showing patriotism at the games and honoring those lost on 9/11, a question for you. What do you think of U2s support for US patriotism at the Superbowl halftime show and their tribute to those who lost their lives on 9/11?
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Old 02-10-2002, 03:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
White Christians were not the only ones killed in the attacks.. Jews.. Blacks.. Asians.. and even MUSLIMS (Excluding the Terrorists) were killed...

Beside that point.. Which muslims are you referencing?.. The ones who are the radicals twisting every verse of the Koran into some sort of 'Kill Western Society' Sentiment?.. or the ones including some in this forum, who were just as hurt.. just as touched.. And Just as Enraged that someone in the name of their god could Kill 3000 people?

I think you need to specify which group of Muslims you were talking about...

Your statement does not apply to the Muslims of peace, Americans or not.. And if they felt that they were being included.. Well, then they can blame the terrorists for any of this terrible racial profiling that may occur...

However, If a Radical Muslim.. perhpas Bin Laden himself had to sit and watch us remember those Americans... Europeans.. Africans.. Asians.. and Australians.. who were killed, or whose families were touched by that moment.. Then I hope he choked on vomit.

L.Unplugged
I was of course referring to the group of muslims who are competing in the Olympics!

I know there were people of different ethnics killed in WTC and I in fact know that swedes were killed and thatīs why I think it was disrespectful to all these people to have The US government making what could have been such a powerful tribute into a political show



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