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Old 06-02-2004, 10:08 AM   #1
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Will Los Angeles Change Its Name?

It could be the next move by the ever vigilent anti-Christian elements of the ACLU.

Los Angeles is being force to change its seal. Among the many symbols on the seal, including a cow, a tuna fish, a Spanish galleon, the Hollywood Bowl and the Goddess Pomona was a vile and offensive symbol - a cross.

Ignoring history and the role of Catholic missionaries in the area, the ACLU filed suit to have the cross removed (the Goddess Pomona is on the acceptable religious symbol list apparently).



Facing Suit, County to Remove Seal's Cross
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Old 06-02-2004, 10:15 AM   #2
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There are MANY cities which the ACLU is taking to battle over similar symbols... specifically the cross.

There are other acceptable symbols that can represent the missionaries besides a cross.
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Old 06-02-2004, 11:28 AM   #3
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Seems to me there are many more important things in the world that people should be concerned about than that.

I know someone who has a friend who is on TV news, and this woman tucks her cross inside her blouse when she's on air..she's not told to do that, she just does. I just think that's sad.

Oh well
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Old 06-02-2004, 11:35 AM   #4
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Elvis, in heraldry, yes, a cross is a religious symbol. It's also a historical symbol that represents a particular people who lived in the area, perhaps centuries ago. If they decide to move the "offending" cross (and mind you, I don't think it's any of my damn business because I'm not from L.A. or even California) wouldn't that be denying an aspect of the region's *culture* as it has a Hispanic heritage? My state's flag has the cross of St. Andrew on it. I don't mind this because St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland, and Alabama's population is heavily Scotch-Irish. I am of Scotch-Irish and German ancestry, for the most part. Incidentally I opposed Roy Moore's Ten Commandments grandstanding, I thought it was a cynical power ploy on the part of certain elements of the right wing of the state Republican party. I am glad the Congressional candidate Moore endorsed for my district lost in the primary yesterday. They were trying to oust a principled supporter of debt relief for Africa.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Seems to me there are many more important things in the world that people should be concerned about than that.

I know someone who has a friend who is on TV news, and this woman tucks her cross inside her blouse when she's on air..she's not told to do that, she just does. I just think that's sad.

Oh well
In TV news, impartiality is imperative. A serious news organization will have their news anchors display no symbol that hints towards any of their own personal beliefs, whether that be secular or religious. That's why, following 9/11, NBC had to reiterate this policy, since some anchors wanted to wear ribbons in patriotic support. I firmly agree with NBC on this one; it is just unfortunate that an organization like FOX News often makes a mockery of this profession, with their clear and overt biases.

As for Los Angeles' seal, I do tend to believe that it is also a bit too far, especially if they have a "goddess" on the seal. :P

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Old 06-02-2004, 12:31 PM   #6
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The ACLU seems to be pulling a PETA on this issue. That is, they're pursuing something worthwhile (in this case, the separation of church and state) in a bizarre manner that turns people off from their cause.

Regarding religious symbols on government seals, what is the ACLU going to do about the seal of the state of California?


That's the goddess Minerva in the Roman garb.
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:20 PM   #7
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Then again, maybe they do tell her to hide her cross. I wouldn't be surprised.

She only does the traffic report, so I don't see any harm in her cross showing

I don't see what would be wrong w/ wearing a flag or ribbon pin after 9/11-.I wouldn't be offended by it or read anything into it either. I think this just goes too far sometimes..and the ACLU does too
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:39 PM   #8
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Unfortunately.. the right and the left are both beating the shit out of this... one trying to remove everything of 'church' in 'state'... and the other side constantly trying to sneak prayer into public schools.. not to mention many other religious things...

The foundation of this govt is the separation of church and state, and although I don't agree with the radical approaches by either 'side'... I'm going to have to side with the ACLU on this one... since technically they are just attempting to maintainwhat is already part of our constitution while others really are tyring to make a mockery of it.
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis
The foundation of this govt is the separation of church and state,
Actually, the foundation is the non-establishment of a state religion. I haven't seen one established in LA.
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:47 PM   #10
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Interesting..I just read this on CNN.com. It's regarding a baptism in a public park in VA. There is a quote from someone in the ACLU

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/06/....ap/index.html
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:16 PM   #11
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That's pretty stupid.

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Old 06-02-2004, 03:48 PM   #12
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I am curious since it was said there is a better symbol to be used to symbolize the missionary and the historical importance of this in the history of the state, what that symbol might be, and I would like to know why if it is a symbol of that very same heritage, how it could possibly be any less offensive to the people who wanted it removed?
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:48 PM   #13
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Somehow a double post.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:50 PM   #14
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Elvis, If I am understanding one of your statements you are implying that the people who want the cross on their seal are making a more of a mockery of the constitution. How so? If I am misunderstanding you please explain.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:57 PM   #15
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Well, I think it is time we took away the red and white stripes as well as the field of blue from the American Flag. My reasoning would be that they are their to recognize our heritage as being from England. The English FLag is composed of the Cross of St. George, the Cross of St. James, and the Cross of St. Patrick.



St. George



St. Andrew



St. Patrick

Clearly we do not want to hurt any citizens who have come to this country to be offended by our countrys Christian heritage, and clearly the stripes, although they are turned, and the field of blue, represent symbolism that might be construed as religious symbolism.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:00 PM   #16
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1 out 5 children in Los Angeles go to bed hungry every night.

Because of the incompetence of the King/Drew hospital staff, many more get horrible to no health care.

Urban kids in L.A. County read one to two grades below their appropriate level.

And *this* is what the ACLU is bitching about? Geez, it's nice to know we have our priorities together.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:19 PM   #17
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This is truly offensive.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:22 PM   #18
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The ACLU had this to say about the above flag:

[Q] "prominently depicts a Latin cross, a sectarian religious symbol that represents the beliefs of one segment of the county's diverse population" [and is an] impermissible endorsement of Christianity." [/Q]


Hmmmm...

[Q]prom∑i∑nent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prm-nnt)
adj.
Projecting outward or upward from a line or surface; protuberant.
Immediately noticeable; conspicuous. See Synonyms at noticeable.
Widely known; eminent. [/Q]

I see a PAGAN symbol prominantly displayed.....Hmmmm.....That is not good, isn't that the endorsement of something?
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:23 PM   #19
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a) The Baptism thing... I think they should be able to do it. They are utilizing public space for a gathering... religious or not.

b) dread.... yes.. you read me correctly. Let me ask you a question..... do you think it would be OK if the American flag had a religious cross? Last I checked this was the United States of American, not the United States of Christianity.

c) about the US flag....
Quote:
Ever wonder why the flag is red, white, and blue? While the flag's colors did not have a specific meaning at the time, the colors were significant for the Great Seal of 1782.

White: Signifies purity and innocence
Red: Signifies valor and bravery
Blue: Signifies Vigilance, perseverance, and justice
Why stars and stripes? Stars are considered a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun.
d) I dont think the ACLU is the poverty, healthcare, and litteracy watchdog.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:25 PM   #20
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The meaning behind the US FLAG as you have portrayed it is not exactly correct, the meaning was added to it later. It is a recognition of the three crosses I mentioned above. While the meaning you attribute to it was later added, the symbolism behind the colors cannot be ignored.
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