Will Israel starve women and children to death? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-19-2007, 05:37 PM   #1
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 03:09 AM
Will Israel starve women and children to death?

Quote:
Israel declares Gaza Strip a hostile entity

20 Sep 2007, 0259 hrs IST,AFP


JERUSALEM: Israel declared the Gaza Strip a "hostile entity" on Wednesday, clearing the way for shutting off basic supplies to the Hamas-run territory in revenge for rocket fire.

The Western-shunned Islamist movement Hamas slammed the decision as "collective punishment" for the 1.5 million residents of the impoverished territory, one of the world's most densely populated places.

US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, who arrived on her latest peace mission to the region on Wednesday, said that Hamas which seized control of Gaza three months ago was "indeed a hostile entity. It is a hostile entity to the US as well."

"Following extensive legal consultations, Israel has decided to declare Gaza as a hostile entity, with all the international implications," a senior Israeli official said after a meeting of Israel's powerful security cabinet.

An official statement said the unanimous decision would affect supplies of electricity and fuel to the territory, where Hamas seized control three months ago.

Israel provides Gaza with the majority of both. "Restrictions will also be placed on the movement of people to and from the Gaza Strip," the statement said.
__________________

deep is offline  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:10 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,652
Local Time: 05:09 AM
Will Israel starve women and children? They've done it before.

http://www.madre.org/articles/me/hungerinpalestine.html
__________________

joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:26 PM   #3
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:09 PM
The declaration is largely the result of pressure from the right-wing parties for Olmert's government to respond to the steady stream of rocket attacks on the Sderot region, and in particular the attack which injured 70 Israeli soldiers at the Zikkim base last week. However, if the threat to respond to further attacks by cutting off Gaza's electricity and fuel supplies were to be carried out, that would obviously violate Geneva protocols concerning obligations to civilians (though the government would probably try to argue that those obligations don't apply since they're "technically" not occupying Gaza).
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 09-19-2007, 06:35 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 03:09 AM
I did find another article where they say they won't cut off water, and the bare essentials. Also, they will let through enough power for hospitals.


I do realize this is tied the rocket attacks.

I just don't see how it will do any good.

Especially for Israel.
deep is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 03:49 AM   #5
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:09 AM
Oh I get it....it's OUR fault, right?

My response to this declaration is: "what the hell took so long??". We should have done this right away when Hamas bullied their way into power.....and please don't try and tell me that they were "democratically" elected - as if anyone really had a CHOICE or if anyone else had a chance of standing against Hamas and making it through the elections in one piece!

We have our worst enemy at our doorstep. An enemy that is committed to our destruction, an enemy that will use any resource at their disposal to fight us, an enemy that receives financial aid which is then used to arm inself rather than provide for it's own people.

I am very sorry for the innocent peace-loving residents of Gaza who have to suffer for the actions of their terrorist government - but what else could we have done?

If any humanitarian crisis arises, it is HAMAS's doing - not ours.
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 03:58 AM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:09 AM
^

And now you have some idea how we feel when you tell us what to think about how things are run in our country when you have no clue.
indra is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:04 AM   #7
Refugee
 
Muldfeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,886
Local Time: 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
Oh I get it....it's OUR fault, right?

My response to this declaration is: "what the hell took so long??". We should have done this right away when Hamas bullied their way into power.....and please don't try and tell me that they were "democratically" elected - as if anyone really had a CHOICE or if anyone else had a chance of standing against Hamas and making it through the elections in one piece!

We have our worst enemy at our doorstep. An enemy that is committed to our destruction, an enemy that will use any resource at their disposal to fight us, an enemy that receives financial aid which is then used to arm inself rather than provide for it's own people.

I am very sorry for the innocent peace-loving residents of Gaza who have to suffer for the actions of their terrorist government - but what else could we have done?

If any humanitarian crisis arises, it is HAMAS's doing - not ours.
You should have mentioned, "an enemy Israel created with its brutal occupation."

I know it's hard when you've lived in an area for a while and your parents may have raised you there, but your people are occupying land stolen from the Palestinians. The occupation caused this; just because some Palestinians engage in slightly more violent resistance than others doesn't make it less moral than Israel's ethnic cleansing and bombing and killing for the past several decades. Israel is at fault the same way white settlers were for attacking and displacing native Americans and then calling natives barbaric for resisting violently.

The fact that Israel always gets what it wants from the US, including arms and funds to kill more Palestinians and Lebanese is the major cause for the regretful popularity of Al Qaeda-type groups. Israel is always treated with kid gloves by the West; it's time this stopped, and people recognize the terrorists who started it all by brutally displacing Palestinians, diverting their resources, unilaterally deciding the terms of negotiation, and constantly interfering in their lives and politics. I'd trust Hamas over any Israeli party, especially the racist Likud.

It's Israel and the international community's fault for depriving Hamas of the Palestinians' rightful funds and tax dollars and for driving it out of power. Hamas can't give up the right to attack Israel unless Israel stops the occupation and aparteid tactics. Now that would be fair! But you'd never hear that from CNN or the Bush administration. I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.
Muldfeld is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:17 AM   #8
Refugee
 
Muldfeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,886
Local Time: 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The declaration is largely the result of pressure from the right-wing parties for Olmert's government to respond to the steady stream of rocket attacks on the Sderot region, and in particular the attack which injured 70 Israeli soldiers at the Zikkim base last week. However, if the threat to respond to further attacks by cutting off Gaza's electricity and fuel supplies were to be carried out, that would obviously violate Geneva protocols concerning obligations to civilians (though the government would probably try to argue that those obligations don't apply since they're "technically" not occupying Gaza).
Israel has violated numerous human rights laws, including thousands of UN violations. As long as America stands by Israel, they don't have to listen and go on and on about how they know suffering like no others because of the Holocaust and brain wash the West into having to support Israel for fear of being called anti-semitic. It's such a propaganda tool exploiting the tragic deaths of millions to continue to exploit Palestinians.
Muldfeld is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:17 AM   #9
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Muldfeld

You should have mentioned, "an enemy Israel created with its brutal occupation."

I know it's hard when you've lived in an area for a while and your parents may have raised you there, but your people are occupying land stolen from the Palestinians. The occupation caused this; just because some Palestinians engage in slightly more violent resistance than others doesn't make it less moral than Israel's ethnic cleansing and bombing and killing for the past several decades. Israel is at fault the same way white settlers were for attacking and displacing native Americans and then calling natives barbaric for resisting violently.

The fact that Israel always gets what it wants from the US, including arms and funds to kill more Palestinians and Lebanese is the major cause for the regretful popularity of Al Qaeda-type groups. Israel is always treated with kid gloves by the West; it's time this stopped, and people recognize the terrorists who started it all by brutally displacing Palestinians, diverting their resources, unilaterally deciding the terms of negotiation, and constantly interfering in their lives and politics. I'd trust Hamas over any Israeli party, especially the racist Likud.

It's Israel and the international community's fault for depriving Hamas of the Palestinians' rightful funds and tax dollars and for driving it out of power. Hamas can't give up the right to attack Israel unless Israel stops the occupation and aparteid tactics. Now that would be fair! But you'd never hear that from CNN or the Bush administration. I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.

As for the middle-east, the Palestinian problem could have been solved 60 years ago if the Arabs living in Palestine had accepted the UN partition plan and put down their arms against us. The Palestinian state would have been created 60 years ago alongside Israel and the Palestinian people could have been ruling themselves and providing for themselves.

There were so many missed opportunities to solve the middle-east crisis - just to name a few:

1. After the six-day war in June 1967 when Israel captured the west bank, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Penninsula. These terrirotories were captured in a defensive war which we won by the grace of G-d. These territories were never officially annexed by Israel and we've always said that we're waiting to negotiate their return in exchange for peace - which of course was out of the question for the Arab countries, until Egypt took the bold step of making peace with us in 1979 - and as a result we gave back the Sinai Penninsula.

2. Another missed opportunity (in a chain of missed opportunities) came in 1993 when Israel recognized the PLO and the Oslo agreements were signed, granting the Palestinians autonomy leading up to an eventual Palestinian state which was supposed to be established by 1998. While the Fatah party laid down their arms, Hamas raised the mantle of radical Islam and waged a murderous campaign of suicide bombers against our population.

3. In 2000, Israel reached an unprecedented decision to sign an agreement which would effectively return 97% of the west bank to the Palestinians, including dismantling the settlements. Yassar Arafat turned us down cold and missed a true once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

4. In August 2005, after realizing that we had absolutely no one to talk to on the Palestinian side after Hamas took power in Gaza, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, dismantling settlements and relinquishing the land to the Palestinians. Israel left all the infrastructure intact and the Palestinian government could have used the land to resettle the poor people of Gaza City and to take them out of the squalor of the refugee camps…but no….they preferred to use perfectly good land to place rocket launchers and fire them into the nearby city of Sderot – it was much more important for the terrorist government to fight us instead of taking care of the needs of their own people.

5. Iran is pledging hundreds of millions of dollars to the Palestinians. Do you think it’s for food and medicine? Think again. The Hamas government will use this money to arm themselves with more sophisticated weapons and long-range missiles that will put us AND them in grave danger.
I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Time after time after time Israel has tried to reach agreements with the Palestinian governments, to no avail.

+++

I live in the hopes that someone on the Palestinian side will come to their senses and realize that they can accomplish so much more by peaceful negotiations rather than constantly fighting a war which they will ultimately lose….mainly because Israel isn’t going anywhere….and the constant fighting will only result in the loss of more innocent lives on both sides….and for what????

Thanks for reading,
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:40 AM   #10
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra
^

And now you have some idea how we feel when you tell us what to think about how things are run in our country when you have no clue.
I'm sorry but, with all due respect to you, I think I have a right to comment on what goes on in the U.S. and you have the right to comment on Israel and we can correct each other if we're wrong - just like I'm doing here.

This forum is for free discussion and I don't think I have to live somewhere in order to state my opinion on what goes on there.

That being said, I welcome any comment/criticism about my country and I would gladly answer any of your questions to the best of my ability.
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:22 AM   #11
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I'm sorry but, with all due respect to you, I think I have a right to comment on what goes on in the U.S. and you have the right to comment on Israel and we can correct each other if we're wrong - just like I'm doing here.

This forum is for free discussion and I don't think I have to live somewhere in order to state my opinion on what goes on there.

That being said, I welcome any comment/criticism about my country and I would gladly answer any of your questions to the best of my ability.
She's not talking about rights; she's saying how ridiculous many of your comments seem. You usually pop in, drop a few lines about how great Bush and Fox are, and then let that be it. Back your opinions up and when someone counters yours, address it. That's how it works here. It's not about stating opinions. It's about discussing and debating the logic behind them.
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:38 AM   #12
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


Back your opinions up and when someone counters yours, address it. That's how it works here. It's not about stating opinions. It's about discussing and debating the logic behind them.
I thought that was what I was doing with this thread.

I don't run away from debates but, since I'm at work at my desk, unfortunately I don't always have the time to engage in a lively debate as much as I'd like to.

Today happens to be a slow day so my replies are coming a bit faster.

As I've stated many times, I am not a "hit and run" poster and I welcome any chance for debate when I am free to do so.
AchtungBono is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 05:47 AM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I thought that was what I was doing with this thread.

I don't run away from debates but, since I'm at work at my desk, unfortunately I don't always have the time to engage in a lively debate as much as I'd like to.

Today happens to be a slow day so my replies are coming a bit faster.

As I've stated many times, I am not a "hit and run" poster and I welcome any chance for debate when I am free to do so.
Fair enough, and you are doing fine here. Indra was referring to past discussions you've engaged in.
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 06:09 AM   #14
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 07:09 AM
I think it's important and healthy to hear everyone's perspectives.
The United States has an interest in the preservation of the existence and viability of Israel, perhaps not as much a vested interest as Israel in the continuing support of the United States. The United States also has an interest in what is happening to and done by the Palestinians. I see Israel as a small and successful country surrounded by enemies and as an aggressor. I see Palestinians as both victims and (along with the people who support them) as aggressors.

The interests of the United States do not always coincide with the interests of Israel. That is why you spy on us. That is why we spy on you. You can probably tell me much better if the President (and Fox News) is good for Israel. And why many of us will tell you that the President is not good for the United States.
Our interests are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they are different.
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 07:30 AM   #15
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,394
Local Time: 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


….mainly because Israel isn’t going anywhere…


and this is the fact that everyone has to come to terms with.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-20-2007, 06:03 PM   #16
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Muldfeld
I hope the left wing voice among you wins and persuades the murderous majority that what they've been doing in leaving their well-off homes in the West to take others' land without compensation that this has been an evil act (which is not to say Jewish people are evil at all) that has only increased anti-Jewish feeling in the Muslim world, where there was little before -- at least, compared to the Christian West.
I also hope the left wing voice wins. But it is not clear to me from what you wrote that you in fact recognize a two-state solution as acceptable or legitimate...do you?

Also, while I would never expect Palestinians to see the 'nation of refugees' concept of Israel as 'justification' for anything--since they're living that themselves, aren't they--it would seem a bit contradictory to speak of the history of "anti-Jewish feeling" in the "Christian West" on the one hand, then to speak of Jews leaving their "well-off homes in the West" on the other. Unless it's certain specific later stages of Jewish emigration to Israel you have in mind.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 11-02-2007, 05:54 PM   #17
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:09 PM
Quote:
Chicago Tribune, Nov.1
................................................................................
Wary of a potentially costly ground operation and under domestic pressure to respond to the rocket attacks, the Israeli government tightened sanctions on Gaza this week, cutting back fuel supplies and closing a commercial crossing in an effort to press the Hamas rulers of Gaza to rein in the militants. Plans to disrupt the electricity supply were put on hold by Atty. Gen. Menachem Mazuz, who said more work was needed to ensure that the measure did not cause humanitarian harm.

The attorney general's step came after 10 human-rights groups petitioned the Israeli Supreme Court to block the fuel and power cutbacks, calling them illegal collective punishment that would affect vital services such as hospitals, sewage systems and the water supply. Palestinians in Gaza rely on Israel for all their fuel and more than half their electricity. According to a court response submitted by the state, supplies of gasoline and diesel fuel to Gaza are being cut by 15% for the next two weeks, and fuel for Gaza's only power station is being reduced by 21%.

The Sufa border crossing, through which food and medical supplies were shipped to Gaza, has been closed, leaving only one supply passage open at the Kerem Shalom Crossing. The measure means that the capacity of supply deliveries would be halved from about 100 trucks a day to about 50, said Shlomo Dror, spokesman for the Defense Ministry department that deals with the Palestinian areas.
..................................................................................
Sari Bashi, director of Gisha, one of the Israeli rights groups that petitioned the Supreme Court, rejected assertions by Israeli officials that the fuel and power cutbacks would be monitored and calibrated to avoid humanitarian harm. "Nobody can predict the effects of cutting vital needs," she said. "Any reduction in supply will have drastic and unexpected consequences on the functioning of vital systems. The thought that you can control the kind of damage being done is reckless and cruel. Collective punishment is illegal and a moral red line."

In an editorial Tuesday, Ha'aretz, a liberal newspaper, called the cutbacks an "act of frustration" and "revenge." "Harming civilians in a deliberate and planned way is illegal, even if it is done in response to action against civilians by the other side," the editorial said. "The babies of Gaza are more dependent on Israel than on the Hamas government, and the decision to punish them for the firing of Qassam rockets will not enhance the security of residents of Sderot."

Infrastructure Minister Benjamin Ben Eliezer said the cutbacks are a final attempt to avoid a military operation that could cause civilian casualties. "What's the alternative?" he told Israel Radio on Monday. "The alternative is that tomorrow or the next day we'll be forced to bring three or four divisions and go into Gaza. There's nothing we haven't tried."

But critics of the government say it hasn't tried truce talks with Hamas. A group of prominent Israeli intellectuals urged the government to negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas and a broader peace agreement with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. "Israel has in the past negotiated with its worst enemies," the intellectuals said in a petition published in late September. "Now the appropriate course of action is to negotiate with Hamas to reach a general cease-fire that will prevent further suffering on both sides."
Quote:
New York Times, Nov. 2

The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, met a group of Hamas leaders in the West Bank today, the first time he has done so since Hamas routed Fatah forces in Gaza in June.

Mr. Abbas said that the meeting in his Ramallah office, which followed Friday prayers, was not the beginning of a formal dialogue with Hamas. Instead, it appeared to be an effort to split more moderate Hamas officials in the West Bank from their more militant brethren in Gaza. Hamas has said regularly since June that it wants to talk to Mr. Abbas about reconstituting a unity government with Fatah, but Mr. Abbas has said that Hamas must first apologize for its “coup” in Gaza, pull back from buildings taken at the time and restore security officials, nearly all of them from Fatah, to their posts.
....................................................................................
Still, if an international talks on Middle East peace organized by the United States fails later this year, some Palestinians believe that Mr. Abbas may once again negotiate with Hamas. The radical Islamic movement is also powerful in the West Bank, but it is weaker and more underground than in Gaza because of the Israeli occupation and the campaign that Fatah has led against it since June. In the West Bank, Fatah has closed many Hamas offices, arrested Hamas members and clerics and tried to prevent the circulation of its newspapers.

In Gaza, a more militant Hamas wing appears to be in control. When a relative moderate, a former Haniya spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, called in an internal letter three months ago for negotiations with Israel, political openness and reengagement with Fatah, he was pushed to repudiate it when it became public. Mr. Hamad, who has said that the takeover of Gaza by Hamas was a reactive mistake, has been told to keep silent, as has another Haniya adviser, Ahmed Youssef, who had tried to present a more moderate Hamas face to Europe and the West.

On Friday, Mr. Abbas hosted a group including Nasser el-din al-Shaer, former deputy prime minister in the first Hamas government; Ahmed Abu Ruman; Hussein Abu Qweik; and Ayman Daraghmeh. They first attended prayers in a mosque in Mr. Abbas’s compound, then met in his office. Mr. Shaer had criticized the comments of some Hamas leaders in Gaza, who bragged that they would be praying in Mr. Abbas’s West Bank compound soon, as they were now praying at his headquarters in Gaza. “The Hamas movement rejects the principle of violent infighting in the West Bank,” Mr. Shaer said. “We support the general attitude to achieving social peace and security.”
..................................................................................
Nabil Abu Rudeineh, an Abbas aide, said that the president was not opposed to Hamas, only to its coup. “As President Abbas said, Hamas is part of the Palestinian people,” he said. “Our problem is with a small group who rose against legitimate authority.”

There have been quiet talks among some senior Hamas and Fatah members who believe that the Palestinians cannot remain split for long. But others in Fatah agree with Israel and Washington that Hamas’s call for dialogue is disingenuous, that it has no intention of giving up control in Gaza, and that it will act to disrupt any progress toward peace with Israel.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 11-02-2007, 08:18 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,266
Local Time: 07:09 AM
Press >>> Play



Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.


~Bob Dylan
the iron horse is offline  
Old 11-03-2007, 11:20 AM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
CTU2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,366
Local Time: 07:09 AM
That would almost fit...except he's got the real bully in his back pocket, with the biggest guns pointed at his enemies, should they dare to so much as twitch.
CTU2fan is offline  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:02 PM   #20
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:09 PM
Quote:
More Gazans Flood Across Border

By STEVEN ERLANGER
New York Times, January 25, 2008


RAFAH, Egypt — Tens of thousands more Palestinians flooded across the breached border crossing from Gaza into Egypt on Thursday, and Egyptian merchants greeted them with a cornucopia of consumer goods and higher prices than on Wednesday, when Hamas militants toppled large sections of the fence. There were many more Egyptian police at the crossings from Rafah, more of them dressed in riot gear and some using batons with small electric charges to keep the large, pushing crowds in some form of order. And on Thursday, too, more Hamas gunmen were visible on the Gaza side, maintaining calm and doing random checks for possibly smuggled weapons. But neither group tried to stop the shoppers and businessmen restocking their wares in Egypt, nor did Hamas make any visible effort to control or tax the thousands of cigarettes coming into Gaza, let alone the televisions, generators, washing machines, milk, cheese, sheep, goats, cows, camels, diesel and gasoline.

More quietly, Hamas gunmen could be seen taking delivery of hundreds of bags of cement. Israel has sharply restricted the import of cement into Gaza, even for aid projects, because it says Hamas diverts the supply to build fortified tunnels and emplacements for use against any major Israeli military action in Gaza.

Both exchange rates and prices were up, as were the amounts Gazans were buying, with clear intent to resell within Gaza. So intense was the trading that even some Palestinians grew worried that there would be a backlash from impoverished Egyptians of Rafah. “This is not so good for the Palestinian people,” said Ahmed Shawa, a Gaza engineer who crossed into Egypt on Thursday. “Prices are becoming very high while people in Egyptian Rafah don’t have bread. If I go to your country and buy everything and you don’t have bread, you’re going to hate me.”

Hamas officials said they took action to open the Egyptian border after Israel last week decided to stop nearly all shipments into Gaza, including industrial diesel needed to run Gaza’s main power plant and gasoline, in an effort to push Gazan gunmen to stop firing rockets into Israeli towns and farms. Under severe international criticism, Israel relented but temporarily, agreeing to supply a week’s worth of fuel, but it limited supplies again after the border breach.

The Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, considered his options, but Egyptian officials made it clear on Thursday that while Egypt would not hurt Palestinians seeking food and other goods, it would also not accept a lawless border, open to arms traffic and unregulated travel of gunmen and political extremists. Both Israel and the United States said that it was Egypt’s responsibility to bring the border situation under control. Gen. Ahmed Abdel Hamid, the governor of northern Sinai, estimated that up to 120,000 Palestinians were currently in Egypt, but said they were not being allowed to travel beyond El Arish, which lies slightly beyond Rafah. He said he thought the border might stay open for another “four or five days” and then would be closed pending another agreement on what to do. “You have to see where this problem came from,” General Abdel Hamid said. “Before the dispute between Hamas and Fatah, the border was open every day with no problem. Since the dispute, the border has been closed.”

In fact, before the fighting between the two Palestinian factions over the summer, during which Hamas ousted Fatah from Gaza, the Rafah crossing was closed more often than it was open. But he emphasized that Egypt was not favoring one faction or another, saying: “Egypt is with the legitimate authority,” presumably the Palestinian Authority and its president, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.

Mr. Mubarak’s officials said that Egypt would not accept responsibility for supplying Gaza and let Israel off the hook, as some Israeli officials hope. “This is a wrong assumption,” said Hossam Zaki, the spokesman for Egypt’s Foreign Ministry. “The current situation is only an exception and for temporary reasons. The border will go back to normal.” But the definition of normal was left unclear. When Israel pulled its settlers and troops out of Gaza in 2005, the Rafah crossing was opened with great fanfare to allow individuals in and out of Gaza. European Union supervisors were put in place, and Israeli video cameras monitored the traffic. But for security reasons, the crossing was often shut, and it has been shut completely since Hamas took over Gaza. It will be difficult politically now for Mr. Mubarak to reseal the border completely, shutting off any outlet for Gaza. But he has promised Israel that Egypt would coordinate its actions on the Gaza border to preserve security interests of both countries.

In a speech on Thursday, Mr. Mubarak said that “peace efforts cannot endure any other failure and Egypt will not allow the starving of Palestinians in Gaza or that the situation in the strip turns into a humanitarian crisis.” He called on Palestinian factions to work together and said: “No one can outbid Egypt in its support for this silent nation and their just cause.” Egypt, he said, “is doing its utmost in its movements and contacts to end their suffering and to lift the Israeli measures of collective punishment and to bring back the supply of fuel and electricity and humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.”

Hamas officials want to regulate the border but reopen the crossing again in coordination with Egypt, but also to allow the import and export of goods. A Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, said in an interview that Hamas wanted to end the system under which Israel collects import duties and taxes for the Palestinians. Israel does not give those receipts to Hamas, but only to the Palestinian Authority government, based in Ramallah, in the West Bank. He also noted that the Israeli economy was too expensive for Gazans, while prices of everything from electricity to flour and gasoline were much cheaper in Egypt.

On Thursday, the Israeli deputy defense minister, Matan Vilnai, said openly what some senior Israeli officials would only say anonymously on Wednesday — that Israel would like to hand over responsibility for Gaza to Egypt, in essence, and ironically, supporting the Hamas position. “We need to understand that when Gaza is open to the other side we lose responsibility for it,” Mr. Vilnai said. “So we want to disconnect from it.” He said that Israel’s effort to disengage from Gaza “continues in that we want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place.” But according to his office, he acknowledged that “we are responsible for it as long as there is no alternative.” Even Hamas argues that Israel continues to be responsible for the well-being of ordinary Gazans because it continues to control Gaza’s sea and air space and the only goods crossings.

On Sunday, Israel’s Supreme Court will hear an emergency appeal by Israeli human-rights groups for an injunction against Israel’s cuts in electricity and in fuel supplies to Gaza. Although Israel promised to deliver 580,000 gallons of industrial diesel this week for the Gaza’s sole power plant, which supplies much of Gaza City, only 333,000 gallons had been delivered by Thursday. The power plant, which had shut down for lack of fuel and is now running only one turbine, will have to shut down again on Sunday unless new supplies are delivered. Normally, Israel and Egypt supply the remainder of Gaza’s power needs.

On the border on Thursday, Gazans and Gaza businessmen hurried to stock up before Cairo decided to take further action. The Egyptians would not allow cars or trucks in from Gaza, only carts drawn by animals, so the area between the Gaza fence and the Egyptian border, known as the Philadelphi route — which had been so carefully patrolled by the Israeli army before it withdrew — became an informal parking lot. There were traffic jams under the broken, bent metal and concrete barriers, and food stalls dotted the area, selling boiled sweets, sugared doughnuts, beans and nuts. Boys carried large boxes of cartons of cigarettes on their shoulders, sent to Egypt on commission by businessmen who will restock and resell. Carts were loaded with bags of cement, Chinese-made generators, foam mattresses and Nautica brand televisions. Women in black niqabs, long cloaks and scarves showing only their eyes, carried large, colorful bags of potato chips or Egyptian-made snack cakes. And many Gazans simply went to buy fresh milk, feta cheese and fill canisters with diesel, gasoline, motor oil and cooking oil. Some went to get cement to seal the graves of their loved ones, which they have had to try to protect with paving stones, metal and boards.

Egyptian businessmen sharply raised prices today, with a generator selling in Cairo for $300 being sold here for $600, said Tawfiq Nofal, a businessman who complained that transport companies were also hiking their prices to bring goods to Rafah. “People are buying but not as we expected,” he said. “Our largest aim now is the Palestinian businessmen.” A little over four gallons of diesel cost almost $19, compared to just under $15 a long walk away in El Arish, complained Hamid Kahlout. “Of course they’re exploiting us. Everyone is playing with us.” Some Egyptians complained that the local market was nearly empty.

The call to prayer was ignored as the shopping and gawking continued. Azza Kamel and her cousins were thrilled, going to the wedding of a relative who was engaged a year ago to a man from Egyptian Rafah. The wedding had to wait for the crossing to open; now it was suddenly on. Ms. Kamel and her family all support Fatah, she said, but were grateful to Hamas for this chance. “Fatah still exists,” she said. “But Hamas has eaten everything.”

Muhammad Gaber, head of patient services at the European Gaza Hospital in Rafah, said he thought the border might stay open another five days or so, to provide “temporary relief” to Gazans. “After that, the Egyptians will have to work with Hamas or maybe the European Union to reorganize the crossing,” he said. But politically, he said: “Mubarak can’t put Gazans back into the same prison. The situation has changed. The pressure on Gaza from Israel has to be lifted.”
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×