Will bullheaded white women ruin the race???

[phanan]

Originally Posted by indra

Wait a minute. Aren't you one who's been yelling that no one should ever vote for Clinton no matter what? So if she was the Democratic nominee and people agreed with you, they wouldn't vote for her. Isn't that the same damned thing?

Is your hatred of Clinton so strong you are blinded to that?

Bingo.

[Harry Vest]

Originally Posted by indra

Wait a minute. Aren't you one who's been yelling that no one should ever vote for Clinton no matter what? So if she was the Democratic nominee and people agreed with you, they wouldn't vote for her. Isn't that the same damned thing?

Is your hatred of Clinton so strong you are blinded to that?

You got me.
Guilty as charged.

[yolland]

And proud of it no doubt.

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Harry Vest

This is exaxctly what's wrong with the Hillary Democrats...shame on you!!!
If the Republicans are elected again this fall it will rest on you.

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Let's see if I have it straight with all the BS going around (in general, not just this site):

If McCain is elected this fall, it's the fault of Hillary supporters.

If McCain is elected this fall, Americans are a bunch of racists.

Any other ludicrous statements we should throw into the mix?

[LemonMelon]

I'm late to this thread, but I've got to ask, regarding this statement in the article:

"How Obama's campaign has treated Hillary will not be forgotten,"

What the fuck are they talking about?

[2861U2]

^Exactly. I've heard very little of "If McCain wins, it's because he's simply the better candidate who people like better."

[corianderstem]

Are there polls showing numbers for voters who are Republican and/or conservative but don't like McCain? Will they stay home? Or write in somebody else?

My parents are in that camp, and they aren't going to vote for McCain. I wonder how many more are in that camp - enough to have a positive impact for Obama?

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by Harry Vest

You got me.
Guilty as charged.

Oh, I think people figured out your hypocrisy long ago.

Maybe when Hillary bows out, you can focus your attention on bashing Americans again. Of course, that would only be White Americans, right?
Or is it just as selective as your other standards?

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by dazzlingamy

If the democrats don't win this election base on the track record of the current adminstration there is something deeply, horrifically wrong with the american people.

Two words: John Howard

[A_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Two words: John Howard

K-Rudd

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

K-Rudd

What's your point? Citing Kevin Rudd doesn't even make sense. How long is he in office, a few months?

I was reacting to Dazzling Amy's post complaining about US voters electing Republicans, when the Australian electorate kept re-electing, well, a Bush-loving neo-con.

[melon]

Originally Posted by financeguy

What's your point? Citing Kevin Rudd doesn't even make sense. How long is he in office, a few months?

I was reacting to Dazzling Amy's post complaining about US voters electing Republicans, when the Australian electorate kept re-electing, well, a Bush-loving neo-con.

I'm glad you brought Howard up, honestly. I think too many people have forgotten what colossal failures our politicians have been in many nations worldwide. Between terribly stupid politicians, an ignorant and easily swayed electorate, and a "free press" that prefers muckracking to reporting, I can't help but think about those philosophers who argued that democracy, in terms of progress, is a step backwards from a monarchy.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by melon

I'm glad you brought Howard up, honestly. I think too many people have forgotten what colossal failures our politicians have been in many nations worldwide. Between terribly stupid politicians, an ignorant and easily swayed electorate, and a "free press" that prefers muckracking to reporting, I can't help but think about those philosophers who argued that democracy, in terms of progress, is a step backwards from a monarchy.

Well, that wasn't quite the point I was making.

I don't think I ever met an Australian who admitted to voting for Howard, yet he kept getting re-elected. Come to think of it, I can't think of too many Britons who confess an admiration for Blair - yet, again, he was very electorally successful - even post Iraq war. It's a curious thing. I think perhaps it isn't so much to do with easily swayed electorates, nor with even with the influence of US neoconservative ideas of 'spreading democracy', but rather with people simply voting in their own economic best interests, as they saw it - Howard was thought to be good for the Australian economy, ditto Blair for the UK economy.

Come to think of it, Berlusconi just got re-elected in Italy - if you talk to Italians, most of them say they despise the man, yet he's back. It's really remarkably odd, and I can only think that ultimately, again, it's because even though they don't trust him, they think he'll make LESS of a mess of things than the left-wing party in that country.

[Harry Vest]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

Oh, I think people figured out your hypocrisy long ago.

Maybe when Hillary bows out, you can focus your attention on bashing Americans again. Of course, that would only be White Americans, right?
Or is it just as selective as your other standards?

Maybe I haven't found any...but have I ever seen anything intelligent from you other than bashing threads you disagree with??? In fact, where are you usually...seems you just popped up??

[melon]

Originally Posted by financeguy

I don't think I ever met an Australian who admitted to voting for Howard, yet he kept getting re-elected. Come to think of it, I can't think of too many Britons who confess an admiration for Blair - yet, again, he was very electorally successful - even post Iraq war. It's a curious thing. I think perhaps it isn't so much to do with easily swayed electorates, nor with even with the influence of US neoconservative ideas of 'spreading democracy', but rather with people simply voting in their own economic best interests, as they saw it - Howard was thought to be good for the Australian economy, ditto Blair for the UK economy.

The obvious undercurrent, though, is that the Conservative Party in the U.K. really turned people off at some point, and Blair's fumbles weren't enough to make people trust them again. Obviously, Cameron has made tremendous strides over the last few years, and I don't think it is a coincidence that it has happened after his attempts to make the party seem considerably less intolerant, while still being solidly conservative by British standards.

I don't know much about the Australian Labor Party, but I imagine it has suffered under similar circumstances in the past, much like how the Canadian Conservative Party still suffers from those problems.

The Democratic Party here, in most ways, is still suffering from the damage inflicted in the 1970s, and their tendency to both squabble and not stand for anything hasn't helped. I think people want a definitive alternative to the Republican Party, but the Democrats have shot themselves in the foot so many times it's not even funny. Both the politicians and the party faithful are to blame.

Come to think of it, Berlusconi just got re-elected in Italy - if you talk to Italians, most of them say they despise the man, yet he's back. It's really remarkably odd, and I can only think that ultimately, again, it's because even though they don't trust him, they think he'll make LESS of a mess of things than the left-wing party in that country.

Italian politics are a catastrophe. I don't know how their government even functions.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by melon

Italian politics are a catastrophe. I don't know how their government even functions.

Well, in Naples, it doesn't, but I have the distinct impression that most of northern Italy does quite well for itself, which is probably why there is a northern successionist movement.

Italy is I suppose a special case. It is not typical of Europe, but they haven't followed the American system either. An incredibly successful country looked at from some angles, almost a Third World disaster zone looked at from others (witness the piles of refuse lying uncollected on the streets of Naples). A scarily high government budget deficit- yet they still have some of the most genuinely creative people and a solid manufacturing base that won't, I think, 'off-shore' or 'sub-contract' to China any time soon.

But we digress.

[A_Wanderer]

Labor is conservative and as individual politicians go Rudd isn't afraid of putting his Christian credentials out there (opposition to stem cell research and gay marriage while saying Christian socialism informs his sense of social justice - I prefer my Christian politicians to be hypocrites). The stepped up plan to try and introduce internet censorship and eliminate porn, the commentary on the police stepping in to stop Henson exhibitions and the wonderful stepped up alcohol taxes and talk of banning codeine painkillers being examples of this.

It isn't as though the Liberals weren't just as anti-freedom but nothing has changed in terms of social attitudes in this country and I doubt that it ever will, apathy coupled with effectively mandatory voting guarantees center-right parties and social conservatism are always going to come through strong, an aging population will not change that any time soon.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

Labor is conservative and as individual politicians go Rudd isn't afraid of putting his Christian credentials out there (opposition to stem cell research and gay marriage while saying Christian socialism informs his sense of social justice - I prefer my Christian politicians to be hypocrites). The stepped up plan to try and introduce internet censorship and eliminate porn, the commentary on the police stepping in to stop Henson exhibitions and the wonderful stepped up alcohol taxes and talk of banning codeine painkillers being examples of this.

I was not aware of any of this. Sounds like a politician in the Tony Blair mode - nanny knows best, the Christian socialism angle, etc.

[A_Wanderer]

It's a whole bunch of fun, at the end of the day the porn filter can't work, alcohol taxes on kiddie booze switches the youth back to cask wine and making codeine painkillers demand a trip to the doctor stresses the system too much.

That I have a fundamental ideological disagreement with that is moot given that it fits fine with the laws of the land and general social attitudes in this country.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

It's a whole bunch of fun, at the end of the day the porn filter can't work, alcohol taxes on kiddie booze switches the youth back to cask wine and making codeine painkillers demand a trip to the doctor stresses the system too much.

That I have a fundamental ideological disagreement with that is moot given that it fits fine with the laws of the land and general social attitudes in this country.

I think it just shows yet again how much authoritarian socialists and authoritarian rightwingers have in common.

The most dangerous phrase in politics is 'in their own best interests', 'cos it usually isn't.