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Old 11-16-2007, 04:57 PM   #21
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Yes, apostacy is a crime against God, but Christians live under Islamic rule as people of the book.
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Old 11-16-2007, 05:11 PM   #22
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I suspect you are paraphrasing and not actually quoting anyone.

Please remember that in many of these countries, Muslims that convert to Christianity face the same fate as homosexuals. Exclusion from their families and death threats.


yes, a paraphrase, but accurate in intent.

why must i "please remember"? i'm well aware that it's tough to be christian in some of these countries, let alone jewish, or, god forbid, homosexual.

are you trying to draw some sort of equivalence between global christian suffering and global gay suffering?
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Old 11-16-2007, 05:13 PM   #23
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Yes, apostacy is a crime against God, but Christians live under Islamic rule as people of the book.
Usually segregated into Dhimmitude.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:18 PM   #24
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Yes, in the same medievalist manner that Jews were treated in Christian Europe (at the best of times), but look at the proper Kafirs.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:06 PM   #25
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Religious texts are infinitely subjective (which makes the claims of absolute truth a little ironic).
And which is why I'm always, always doubtful of anybody who claims to have that "absolute truth" when it comes to religion. Writing is weird that way, everyone's going to take from it what they want and every interpretation is no more or less valid than another. I can write a story, and people will take things away from it that I never thought of when I wrote it.

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I doubt that any rational argument that homosexuality as it is practiced today should be accepted can overcome the plain gut reaction that faggotry is gross and gay men should be punished, especially in conservative societies.
I'd like to think that that isn't true, but sadly, you're right-those who have a problem with it will, for the most part, likely remain that way. There've been a few people who have changed their line of thinking, but not many.

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Islam does not make people homophobic any more than Christianity makes people homophobic (both are man made religions that were written with the social norms over a millenia ago). The reason that I think it's fair to say that God is that the religious structures that have dominated are so often the patriarchal and exclusionary ones and a God in that image would be every bit the bastard (take the God of Pat Robertson for instance).
That makes sense. And I fully agree that the religion itself can't be blamed for people thinking the way they do, because there's religious people of all stripes who don't have a problem with homosexuality at all. I still personally prefer to view God differently, to continue to view this being as more loving and caring, but I understand where you're coming from, too, and like I said earlier, if he is indeed the way you describe, then I'd simply say he's not worth following. Many people wouldn't follow a human being who is that cruel, why God would get a pass is beyond me.

Angela
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:16 PM   #26
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I fully agree. Nobody should ever have to feel shame about that sort of thing. I just can't imagine how awful it would be to have to hide it from your own family. The rest of society, for the most part, you'd only have to deal with them for a short time and then move on (unless, of course, you live in a place like Iran). But your own family-it's not always as easy to just disengage yourself from them.

Very sad. You said that was a couple of years ago-I hope that man has gone on to find the happiness he deserves, or if he hasn't yet, that he someday will.

Angela
I last saw him about a 1 year 1/2 ago, but I still keep in contact with my old paralegal and, a few months ago when I asked about him, my old paralegal said he's still the same . . . . same ol', same ol'. My old paralegal also definitely feels the fellow attorney is in the closet.

He's the dutiful son, who lives with and takes care of the mother. His brother and sister are off living their own lives, and he gets to live in the same house he grew up in and take care of his Mom.

It used to make me very sad because he is such a sweet, nice and intelligent guy, and at one point I thought we were almost, almost going to move past friendship into more intimate territory, but it just didn't happen and after that I just had to let it go and move on.

Like you Angela, I wish him the best and hope one day he can have true freedom to love and be loved.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:27 PM   #27
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Originally posted by FitzChivalry
I last saw him about a 1 year 1/2 ago, but I still keep in contact with my old paralegal and, a few months ago when I asked about him, my old paralegal said he's still the same . . . . same ol', same ol'. My old paralegal also definitely feels the fellow attorney is in the closet.

He's the dutiful son, who lives with and takes care of the mother. His brother and sister are off living their own lives, and he gets to live in the same house he grew up in and take care of his Mom.

It used to make me very sad because he is such a sweet, nice and intelligent guy, and at one point I thought we were almost, almost going to move past friendship into more intimate territory, but it just didn't happen and after that I just had to let it go and move on.
Aw . He certainly sounds like a great guy from what you've shared, that's admirable that he's taking time out of his life to take care of his mother. It may not be the perfect life, but that's good to hear he's at least doing all right.

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Like you Angela, I wish him the best and hope one day he can have true freedom to love and be loved.
Indeed. Best of luck to him.

Angela
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:47 AM   #28
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Lovely .

*Continues to feverently hope for the day when, all across the globe, people just won't give a damn about someone's sexual orientation anymore*

Angela

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