Why no muslim outrage over portrayals of Christ ?

[U2Scot]

And yes I am serious. According to their belief system as I've understood
it, and put forth by a talking head on CNN earlier today, Islam holds that
any representation of god or the prophets is wrong / blaspehmous /
insulting. Jesus is recognized as an authentic prophet within Islam,
therefore any representation of him should be just as compellingly offensive
to them as the current one's of Mohammad seem to be. So where have the
fundamentalist Muslim outcries been over The Last Temptation of Christ? Or
over The Passion of The Christ? or even over South Park using Jesus as a
character? These few Danish cartoons sparked this outrage at an insult
against Islam, supposedly, yet representations of Chrsit, by their own
belief system, are also just as wrong and yet where is the outcry? I tell
you where, utterly absent. Seems the radicals aren't even holding
themselves to their own supposed beliefs unless it suits. Certainly makes
me wonder.
Thoughts, comments, opinions?

 

[larryslass]

Personally, i just think they got no sense of humour..

 

[Justin24]

I think it's because Mohommod was the most important prophet and he said he did not want his image shown because he knew they might start worshiping him.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Well he gave the final set of divine revelation to the world

Islam is Abrahamic religion XP

 

[verte76]

There haven't been any outcries over the portrayal of Christ because Jesus isn't nearly as important in Islam as Mohammed is. Mohammed is the founder of Islam, and Jesus is a secondary figure in the religion. Thus no outrage over putting him in pictures or movies. Images, period, aren't allowed in mosques and other places in Islamic countries. That's why all of their art is abstract.

 

[melon]

Had the tides turned in a different direction at the turn of the last millennium, imagery of important Christian figures might have been taboo too. But, thankfully, the Byzantine Empire was just kind of a long-running joke in its last centuries before oblivion, and the Catholic Church turned into a patron of the arts in the Middle Ages.

Last, but not least, thankfully Reformation-era fanatics ultimately lost in the long run:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

Some of the Protestant reformers encouraged their followers to destroy Catholic art works by insisting that they were idols. Huldrych Zwingli and John Calvin promoted this approach to the adaptation of earlier buildings for Protestant worship. In 1562, some Calvinists destroyed the tomb of St. Irenaeus and the relics inside, which are said to have been under the altar of a church since his martyrdom in 202, though iconoclastic riots took place in Zürich (in 1523), Copenhagen (1530), Münster (1534), Geneva (1535), Augsburg (1537) and Scotland (1559).

The Seventeen Provinces (now the Netherlands and Belgium) were hit by a large wave of Protestant iconoclasm in the summer of 1566. This is called the Beeldenstorm and included such acts as the destruction of the statuary of the Monastery of Saint Lawrence in Steenvoorde after a Hagenpreek, or field sermon, by Sebastiaan Matte; and the sacking of the Monastery of Saint Anthony after a sermon by Jacob de Buysere. The Beeldenstorm marked the start of the revolution against the Spanish forces and the Catholic church. See Flanders for more on its history.

In England, Bishop Joseph Hall of Norwich described the events of 1643 when troops and citizens, encouraged by a Parliamentary ordinance against superstition and idolatry, behaved thus:

'Lord what work was here! What clattering of glasses! What beating down of walls! What tearing up of monuments! What pulling down of seats! What wresting out of irons and brass from the windows! What defacing of arms! What demolishing of curious stonework! what tooting and piping upon organ pipes! And what a hideous triumph in the market-place before all the country, when all the mangled organ pipes, vestments, both copes and surplices, together with the leaden cross which had newly been sawn down from the Green-yard pulpit and the service-books and singing books that could be carried to the fire in the public market-place were heaped together'.

Melon

 

[Babydoll]

I'm a Muslim and I'm also surprised that there haven't been outcries over the portrayal of Jesus in the media. However, Mohammed is considered the most important prophet in Islam and if there were any portrayals of him, then all hell would break loose.

 

[U2Scot]

There haven't been any outcries over the portrayal of Christ because Jesus isn't nearly as important in Islam as Mohammed is.

But is he not still considered an authentic prophet ?

I am admittedly not well versed in all things Koran, but I don't believe it says "go ahead and depict any other prophet any way you want just leave Mohammed alone"

 

[nbcrusader]

There haven't been any outcries over the portrayal of Christ because Jesus isn't nearly as important in Islam as Mohammed is. Mohammed is the founder of Islam, and Jesus is a secondary figure in the religion. Thus no outrage over putting him in pictures or movies. Images, period, aren't allowed in mosques and other places in Islamic countries. That's why all of their art is abstract.

It is not that simple. In many respects, Islam believes in certain aspects of Jesus (as a prophet) that are elevated over Mohammed.

 

[doubleU]

Maybe it's just their way of being tolerant

 

[verte76]

It is not that simple. In many respects, Islam believes in certain aspects of Jesus (as a prophet) that are elevated over Mohammed.

That's interesting. I have never read an Islamic critique of Christianity. I guess I need to hit the books.

 

[Harry Vest]

Great point. On another matter - where is all the Muslim "outrage" at suicide bombers that target innocent people????

 

[Sonoftelepunk]

On another matter - where is all the Muslim "outrage" at suicide bombers that target innocent people????

Indeed

 

[Teta040]

Which makes me wonder how often Jesus is portrayed in editorial cartoons.

Well, two important tests are coming. 1) Will any major U.S. publication reprint any of the cartoons? (the one with Mohommed wearing a black bomb on his head instead of a turban is the simplest, most shocking and initially appears to be the least offensive, if it was anyone but one of the 4 Founding Fathers of a world religions,per se--but the more you look at it, the more you realize it's the worst one) . Time or Newsweek, etc. Citing "freedom of speech"-which we in America would preach even more than in Europe. IMO, it would be stupid--we can see what the reaction has been everywhere else. Ironically, this is the only Islamist incident NOT involving America at this point--interesting for Bush to be sitting back on the sidelines watching the sparks fly. Publishing the cartoons would be ASKING for an attack. Do you publish and apologize? And anyway, citing "freedom of speech" is hypocritical. How many perfectly true news stories have been yanked from the air, or even untrue ones, becuase of some politcal dispute--and their editors been FORCED to apologize. AHEM. When the material doesn't even spark rioting and deaths.

And 2) what does this hold for the US in its War on Terror ahead?

Really, though, imagine if some Muslim country published a blaspehmous picture of Jesus, or Jesus in an unflattering light. (Which they would now have every right to do. And even more so-"freedom of speech"? What would we do. Would we sit back and do nothing and would Bush issue a statement about "this is a good sign, while regrettable--it shows they're becoming more democratic." Would the US evengeleical community "See the light" on this issue? Or would they be calling on Bush to REALLY bomb al-Jezeera headqurters this time?

IMO, the Founding Fathers of the world's major religions--Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius, Lao Tzu, Jesus, and a slew of Jewish prophets--Abraham-Jacob, Joseph, Moses, etc--David wouldn't count, he was a king)--as far as I'm concerned, are out of bounds. Attack the earthly disciple, attack the political figure blaspheming their name, but leave THEM out of it. It isn't THIER fault--they are dead and cannot answer to judgement; if the followers have perverted the message. Attacking Bin Laden is one thing. Attacking Mohommed is another. Like it or not, these were holy men, whose inspiratrional message has touched countless millions over millenia and nourished us as much as food, love and sleep.
Maybe they did these things in ancient times but I have a feeling that gods were treated with a little more respect then--if only becuase of the low level of technology and how little we knew about things. Piss God off and maybe your village would be swallowed in an earthquake next week. Be careful what you say.


In this modern epoch, does anyone have any shame? That goes for all groups.

Again: "you can say, "Mohommed is fair game because people commit mrder in his name." And again I say: until they can come back to earth and testify in their own defense, they're off grounds.

BTW: if you want to see some of the cartoons, go to comebackalive.com and click on the
"Black Flag Cafe." In the thread about this subject there are scans.

 

[verte76]

Great point. On another matter - where is all the Muslim "outrage" at suicide bombers that target innocent people????

Suicide is actually a big time sin to Sunni Muslims, who make up about 90% of the world's Muslims. There has been much talk about this especially in the more conservative Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. They haven't been silent on this.

 

[Sonoftelepunk]

Suicide is actually a big time sin to Sunni Muslims, who make up about 90% of the world's Muslims. There has been much talk about this especially in the more conservative Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. They haven't been silent on this.

While that is true, the backlash against these 'splodey dopes' is on a much smaller scale than it should be. Is there any logical reason why there shouldn't be mass outrage and disgust over someone killing themselves and taking innocents with them? Especially since this suicide-homicide bombing is happening on such a wide scale.

 

[melon]

Great point. On another matter - where is all the Muslim "outrage" at suicide bombers that target innocent people????

Because it's seen as being a casualty to war, rather than suicide. They're "martyrs" who have died for the defense of Islam against the enemy that is the West.

Melon

 

[anitram]

Because it's seen as being a casualty to war, rather than suicide. They're "martyrs" who have died for the defense of Islam against the enemy that is the West.

They are very selective about who the enemy is, since I don't see them particularly troubled by blowing up civilian Muslims in Iraq on a daily basis.

 

[Judah]

That's interesting. I have never read an Islamic critique of Christianity. I guess I need to hit the books.

Jesus, I believe, is the second-most mentioned "prophet" in the Koran. Moslems believe in Jesus' virgin birth by Mary. And the Islamic scriptures also mention the return of Jesus Christ, who is to save the earth "and all the true believers" on Judgement Day. They also mention that Jesus Christ will lead the true believers to victory in the battle against untruth and evil and that he will destroy all the negative forces on earth and that all who misguide people in God's name will be destroyed (false gurus & prophets).

In Islam, it's believed Jesus wasn't crucified...that God took Jesus up to Him and saved his life before the Romans could crucify him (replaced Jesus with some other shmuck on the cross; i know, them sure were crazy times!); Jesus, therefore, is right now hanging out with God...though he will be back as a righteous Terminator.

I don't think you'd see any Moslems or Moslem publications making fun of Jesus (or Moses or any of the prophets in the Old and New Testaments or the Koran).

Why don't Moslems make a fuss when Jesus is desecrated or blasphemed?

Hard to know. Aside from the fact that they hold Mohammad in higher esteem and usually focus their insanity when his name's desecrated, I would think it may have to do with Moslems not believing in Jesus the way Christians do. Moslems don't give Jesus divinity...to Moslems, Jesus was a man, just like Mohammad, or Moses, or Abraham. A great man, but not divine. I think they would say that the version of Jesus that's being blasphemed is itself a kind of blasphemy (i.e. Jesus as Son of God or God himself), so it wouldn't make sense for Moslems to defend a version of a belief they don't hold.

 

[indra]

I think they would say that the version of Jesus that's being blasphemed is itself a kind of blasphemy (i.e. Jesus as Son of God or God himself), so it wouldn't make sense for Moslems to defend a version of a belief they don't hold.

Which is exactly the same reason they shouldn't get their shorts in a bunch over non-Molsems depictions of Mohammad.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

or even over South Park using Jesus as a
character?

shh... mohammed was a character once on south park, too

 

[yolland]

There were attempts made by a coalition of Muslims and Christians to ban The Da Vinci Code in Pakistan a couple years ago, for "blasphemy." I can't remember whether they were successful or not. The Satanic Verses was banned in both Pakistan and India, but in practice remained quite widely available.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Well who the fuck knows what 'muslims' think... obviously they are a monolithic bloc of opinion, right? Wrong!

Newsflash kids, the largest 'muslim' nation on earth sits just north of me, in Indonesia... last I heard there was about one protest regarding the Danish cartoons in that country. It's so easy to have another little hate-in about the crazy Muslims, but unless you folks want a third world war, you'd do well to wake up right about NOW!

 

[lady luck]

I think that the Danish Cartoons were not a great idea... But the reaction was totally mad!
Attacking the Embassies, put fire to flags... And make kids do that is totally blasphemus for me!!!

And now, some says that this is the reason for the killing of the Italian priest in Turkey ...

It's like if the cartoons were just an excuse to demostrate once again all the hate for the Western society.

 

[verte76]

Huh? What's this about the Italian priest getting killed in Turkey? Yikes. I'm getting ready to go to Turkey myself, and I'm Catholic!

 

[lady luck]

^ He was in his church, alone, and he was praying when a young boy (they say he is 16) came inside the church, screaming "Allah is great" and shooted him dead...

The police is looking for him.

 

[U2 Beginner]

A lot of Muslims are offended for the pictures drawn of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him), and Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), and the other prophets who were drawn.

 

[lady luck]

Huh? What's this about the Italian priest getting killed in Turkey? Yikes. I'm getting ready to go to Turkey myself, and I'm Catholic!

I beg u, be careful

 

[AcrobatMan]

^ He was in his church, alone, and he was praying when a young boy (they say he is 16) came inside the church, screaming "Allah is great" and shooted him dead...

The police is looking for him.

is this surprising...

is this something unexpected..


i dont think so

 

[lady luck]

No, it's not unexpected... but still it hurts.

The Turkish police found the young murderer, and he said he did it because of the cartoon.