Why must we show restraint to our enemies.

[BVS]

Sorry they follow the Koran not the Bible. So there interpretation of do unto others is exactly what they did.

I'd be careful about generalizing religion in such a way. Just because a man uses the Bible to support killing an abortion doctor doesn't mean he's justified.

 

[AchtungBono]

Fucking scary when someone suggest we pull a 9/ 11 attack(and then some) and this is the response he gets.

Who knew supporting terrorism was so cool?

Nice rhetoric BVS but you should know by now that I'm not a terrorist supporter. I'd like to say that I support freedom and the right to fight back against terrorism. What do you think Israel is doing now in the Gaza strip? handing out candy cane??...NO....we're pounding the hell out of them, that's what we're doing - we're talking their own language.

 

[BVS]

Nice rhetoric BVS but you should know by now that I'm not a terrorist supporter.

I'm sorry but when you support a 9/11 attack one that targets civilians and innocents, which is exactly what the poster you quoted was supporting.

Then you support terrorism.

 

[Justin24]

Religion is the greatest weapon for anyone. These men proved so by killing these innocent soldiers for what some other soldiers did or are they doing in the name of Allah to drive the infedels out of the middle east.

 

[AchtungBono]

I'm sorry but when you support a 9/11 attack one that targets civilians and innocents, which is exactly what the poster you quoted was supporting.

Then you support terrorism.

I supported the point of fighting fire with fire against TERRORISTS....I said nothing about fighting and killing innocent people - which I wholeheartedly condemm.

 

[Justin24]

terrorism.

What do you consider terrorism? The beheading of innocent soldiers. The rape of a woman and murders of her family. Driving planes into buildings. bombing subways and double decker buses. The gaza strip invasion. The spanish conquest. The US becoming a country and killing innocent indians, etc.....

 

[Muggsy]

reading some of these posts makes me think how easy is to talk when violence is not a permanent situation in your country.

"fight fire with fire" "let's not show any mercy", I've heard that many times here in my own country and that has lead us to nothing but more poverty, more fear, and above all, more indiference. I do think that the terrorist deserve to be punished but I think that we, as the people who look for a better world, should show them that their methods are wrong, that we believe in human dignity. Doing the same things as them just will prove that there's no way to improve things...

 

[BVS]

I supported the point of fighting fire with fire against TERRORISTS....I said nothing about fighting and killing innocent people - which I wholeheartedly condemm.

Well then you should be careful about fully supporting other people's posts, because that was exactly what he was supporting.

 

[AchtungBono]

reading some of these posts makes me think how easy is to talk when violence is not a permanent situation in your country.

"fight fire with fire" "let's not show any mercy", I've heard that many times here in my own country and that has lead us to nothing but more poverty, more fear, and above all, more indiference. I do think that the terrorist deserve to be punished but I think that we, as the people who look for a better world, should show them that their methods are wrong, that we believe in human dignity. Doing the same things as them just will prove that there's no way to improve things...

Unfortunately, violence IS a permanent situation in my country and my hometown of Ashdod is now within range of the Hamas rockets that have been hitting the towns of Sderot and Ashkelon.

Terrorism is a cancer that has to be cut out at the root by any means necessary.

 

[Justin24]

reading some of these posts makes me think how easy is to talk when violence is not a permanent situation in your country.

"fight fire with fire" "let's not show any mercy", I've heard that many times here in my own country and that has lead us to nothing but more poverty, more fear, and above all, more indiference. I do think that the terrorist deserve to be punished but I think that we, as the people who look for a better world, should show them that their methods are wrong, that we believe in human dignity. Doing the same things as them just will prove that there's no way to improve things...

You in Colombia if I am not mistaken. How bad is the drug situation there. Do the Cartels have much political influence? There are more people than cartels. Why not rise up against that.

 

[BVS]

What do you consider terrorism?

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

 

[Irvine511]

We do not "stoop" to their level. A small group of soldiers did when they raped that poor girl and killed her family. That small group of soldiers should be executed as soon as they are convicted, so that the world will know that this is how the US handles terrorists from any country.

you are aware that it is the official policy of the US (thanks to Rumsfeld and Cheney) to use "coercive interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding that are specifically forbidden by the Geneva Conventions?

what was once a difference between us and the terrorist is now a difference of degree.

 

[Irvine511]

Nice rhetoric BVS but you should know by now that I'm not a terrorist supporter. I'd like to say that I support freedom and the right to fight back against terrorism. What do you think Israel is doing now in the Gaza strip? handing out candy cane??...NO....we're pounding the hell out of them, that's what we're doing - we're talking their own language.

and where has this gotten you and your country? do you feel safe?

 

[AchtungBono]

you are aware that it is the official policy of the US (thanks to Rumsfeld and Cheney) to use "coercive interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding that are specifically forbidden by the Geneva Conventions?

what was once a difference between us and the terrorist is now a difference of degree.

What is "waterboarding"?

 

[Justin24]

Geneva Convention

The Geneva Convention is a joke now. Like the UN it's worthless. I don't see them doing much on the atrocities in Africa and the middle east and asia, with there own little wars going on.

 

[Irvine511]

Terrorism is a cancer that has to be cut out at the root by any means necessary.

and weeds always grow back ... stronger.

 

[Justin24]

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Seems to me that these groups are doing just that to the thousands of people they have killed.

 

[Irvine511]

What is "waterboarding"?

[q]
"The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. 'The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law,' said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch." [2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[/q]

 

[Irvine511]

The Geneva Convention is a joke now. Like the UN it's worthless. I don't see them doing much on the atrocities in Africa and the middle east and asia, with there own little wars going on.

so we're no better than militias in Libera or the Congo, the Iraqi insurgents, or the Taliban?

what kind of society are we trying to defend if we can't differentiate ourselves from those we say we are defending ourselves against?

 

[Justin24]

Do you have any proof of Waterboarding or just what someone says. People will say anything for sympathy

 

[Muggsy]

Unfortunately, violence IS a permanent situation in my country and my hometown of Ashdod is now within range of the Hamas rockets that have been hitting the towns of Sderot and Ashkelon.

Terrorism is a cancer that has to be cut out at the root by any means necessary.

Violence is also a permanent situation here in Colombia... since I was little I was affraid of bombs, being kidnapped and stuff like that. Sometimes when I watch the news (the awfull news) I feel so much anger and impotence, and I must confess that sometimes I think that the terrorists must die in the most awful and painful ways... but you know what?, what will we get if we catch all these people and torture them: just more scars, just to prove that dignity is just an illusion... and I don't want to see that

 

[BVS]

Seems to me that these groups are doing just that to the thousands of people they have killed.

Yes, I'm a little confused. Are you under the impression that I didn't believe that?

 

[Irvine511]

Do you have any proof of Waterboarding or just what someone says. People will say anything for sympathy

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1322866



from that article:

[q]The CIA sources described a list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

The techniques are controversial among experienced intelligence agency and military interrogators. Many feel that a confession obtained this way is an unreliable tool. Two experienced officers have told ABC that there is little to be gained by these techniques that could not be more effectively gained by a methodical, careful, psychologically based interrogation. According to a classified report prepared by the CIA Inspector General John Helgerwon and issued in 2004, the techniques "appeared to constitute cruel, and degrading treatment under the (Geneva) convention," the New York Times reported on Nov. 9, 2005.

It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer.

Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust … than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets."

[/q]

 

[Justin24]

Were better than Libera The Congo, Insurgents and Taliban. We have morals. Can we really change as human beings in our treatment of others? I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.

 

[BVS]

I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.

Because without it you couldn't convict anyone of these crimes.

 

[Irvine511]

Were better than Libera The Congo, Insurgents and Taliban. We have morals. Can we really change as human beings in our treatment of others? I doubt it, so whats the point of having the Geneva Convention when most country don't recognize it.

because adhering to the Geneva Convention is an active demonstration of those morals you insist we have.

we can't very well insist that we have them, and then act in a manner that contradicts said morals.

 

[Justin24]

International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.

 

[Irvine511]

International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.

i don't understand this post at all.

 

[BVS]

International law that countries may follow but not individual groups. Can you go tell the insurgents that torturing those 2 dead soldiers in the film before they killed them was wrong and how we should sing cumbia and have a pow-wow and solve our differences.

So because laws are broken, they are useless?

Wow, might as well throw out all laws.

 

[Justin24]

The Geneva Convention is followed by countries. These people who killed the two soldiers did not follow the Geneva Convention. So now what?