Why I Will Not Be Voting For Bush - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-21-2004, 01:06 AM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 01:11 PM
Why I Will Not Be Voting For Bush

Well its not written by me but I would agree with almost every point.
Quote:
WHY I WON’T VOTE FOR BUSH

By Nelson Ascher

Let me be straightforward here. I’m an atheist and a secularist.

By atheist I mean that I take the possibility of there being any kind of transcendence, anything supernatural, anything that is not explainable or that won’t be eventually be explainad by the laws of physics (which I don’t pretend to understand fully) to be infinitesimally small. I’d really love it if there were something else besides what I can see, because what I can see if suffering, fear and crap. I’d like to think I’ll meet my loved ones who disappeared into nothingness or, to put it even less metaphorically, have disintegrated, don’t exist anymore, are not. It would be nice to imagine that I will outlast my mortal bodily being. But I can’t. Maybe that’s a failure of imagination. The trouble with atheism is the same as with learning to play the piano. To be able to play it well, you’ve got to learn it before you have time to fall in love with music. When you get to love music, it’s usually too late for your fingers to learn the right movements. In the same way, one becomes an atheist before one learns what fear, finitude and mortality are.

As a secularist, I simply don’t want other people’s beliefs dictating my behavior. You don’t want to eat pork? Fine, but leave me alone with my Spanish “jamon de jabugo” or “pata negra”. You dislike spirits? OK. Even so I’ll drink my cognac. Sex outside marriage is sinful for you? That’s your trouble, not mine. Live and let me live.

When I became a conscious atheist (I think that was when, for the hundredth time, in spite of my prayers, God almighty didn’t grant me the grades I needed at junior high school) I also started to militate. I couldn’t admit anyone disbelieving in my disbelief. I thought: I’m so smart and they’re so stupid. Eventually I came around to the conclusion that I couldn’t be so smarter than almost everybody else: a bit maybe, but not that much. So, the conclusions I arrived at could also have been arrived at by most people, living, dead or still to be born. If they took another way, they must have had their own reasons for it. Probably much comes down to temperament, a disposition we’re born with and cannot do much to change.
Continue Reading - here
__________________

A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 02:09 AM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
starsgoblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Looking for direction to perfection
Posts: 17,828
Local Time: 10:11 PM
I couldn't continue reading it...the guy seems so negative about everything that he's one step away from slitting his wrists...goodness.
__________________

starsgoblue is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 04:29 AM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
kobayashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: the ether
Posts: 5,142
Local Time: 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue
I couldn't continue reading it...the guy seems so negative about everything that he's one step away from slitting his wrists...goodness.
i think its quite the opposite actually.
__________________
im the candyman. and the candyman is back.
kobayashi is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 05:46 AM   #4
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,769
Local Time: 05:11 AM
Well, while the arguments make a lot of sense, it's very strange how the author has come to the conclusion. Based on this article, I would say that indeed one gets it and one doesn't. I won't be voting for Bush, but not only because I'm not a US citizen.

Marty
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:01 AM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Song of the week "sentimental" by Porcupine Tree
Posts: 3,854
Local Time: 03:11 AM
infact i thought that the ending was quite a good one..

and expected too..
AcrobatMan is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:02 AM   #6
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,769
Local Time: 05:11 AM
After some more reading on this site, I've come to the conclusion that the blogger uses a lot of empty rhetorics. He dislikes Kerry, but has no valid arguments to support his dislike (as most are based on what he thinks, not on what Kerry has done).



Marty
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:10 AM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Song of the week "sentimental" by Porcupine Tree
Posts: 3,854
Local Time: 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
After some more reading on this site, I've come to the conclusion that the blogger uses a lot of empty rhetorics. He dislikes Kerry, but has no valid arguments to support his dislike (as most are based on what he thinks, not on what Kerry has done).



Marty
come on MILLIONS of people like kerry because they dislike bush..

just because this guys likes bush, cant he dislike kerry ?
AcrobatMan is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:24 AM   #8
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,769
Local Time: 05:11 AM
Of course he can like Bush and dislike Kerry. But I do think it's quite a stretch to say that Kerry won't do anything against terrorism, that all blame for 11 September lies on the Clinton administration, etc.
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:34 AM   #9
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 11:11 PM
You have to understand that in an election with an incumbent, its a vote for who you like and an assessment of the incumbent's work, hence the Anybody But Bush crowd. I was an ABB and as I educated myself, I really started to learn about the GOOD things John Kerry plans to do. I'm not an ABB anymore -- I'm a Kerry supporter. There is a difference.
sharky is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 07:08 AM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:11 PM
I'm glad you found reason to support your candidate. It seems a rarity these days.
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 09:27 AM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:11 AM
I was an ABB also, but I have positive reasons for supporting Kerry as well. I don't hate Bush in the first place, I never did. It's never been personal. He's a sincere, decent guy who's trying to do the right thing, I just don't share his outlook on life and the world. He hasn't gotten in the way of a huge, dramatic improvement in the quality of my life. It happened during his Administration. Amazing things can keep on happening to me no matter who's in the damn White House or controlling Congress. This stuff has pretty limited impact on my day to day life.
verte76 is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 09:31 AM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 07:11 PM
will try and read tonight

First, I admit I have not read this article.


But, I think their are many valid reasons not to vote for Bush if you are a religious person.
deep is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 09:38 AM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:11 AM
Re: will try and read tonight

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
First, I admit I have not read this article.


But, I think their are many valid reasons not to vote for Bush if you are a religious person.
Absolutely. I'm a Catholic Christian and I'm voting for Kerry. But being religious doesn't mean you can't vote for Bush in all honesty and sincerity. The past few weeks at mass I've held hands during the "Our Father" with people wearing Bush campaign buttons. I was initially a bit shocked at political buttons at church but I've gotten used to them.
verte76 is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:02 AM   #14
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Re: Re: will try and read tonight

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76

But being religious doesn't mean you can't vote for Bush
True, but if one truly beieves in what Jesus taught they would be more in sinc with Kerry.
deep is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:17 AM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Re: Re: Re: will try and read tonight

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
True, but if one truly beieves in what Jesus taught they would be more in sinc with Kerry.
This message brought to you by the First Church of Deep.....
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:44 AM   #16
War Child
 
iota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: the rugged southwest
Posts: 780
Local Time: 03:11 AM
Basically, what Jesus taught was that He was God in human form and that only He could fix our problems down here, though it would involve much blood, sweat and tears from us along the way. Jesus did not teach "peace"...i.e. "I have not come to bring peace, but to give you a sword"...suggesting that certain things should be fought for. Whether freedom is one of them, He doesn't state implicitely. So basically Jesus' teachings were more about who He was than anything else, and if you don't accept that, then His more 'proverb-type' sayings are really pointless. So believing in Jesus (not just his teachings) doesn't really dictate who you vote for, as He wasn't a political figure at all. Republicans can find passages they can incorporate into conservatism, and democrats can do the same. In the end, He transcends both by pointing to Himself - not some philosophical ideology. His teachings never sugggest that anyone but Himself can fix what needs to be fixed. So believe in Jesus and vote for whoever you want.
iota is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:50 AM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,422
Local Time: 03:11 AM
I'm not voting for Bush, but a few observations here:

Bush is hijacking religion the same way he's hijacking the American flag; if you vote for Kerry, apparently your faith is weak. If you vote for Kerry, you're not voting for a strong America. I hate his stance on both these things.

btw, that article is wrong on one thing for sure: his analogy about learning the piano, in that you need to learn it before you can love it; simply not true. take it from a pianist.
JOFO is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 03:33 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Diane L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Freaked out in a Moonage Daydream, oh yeah!
Posts: 8,864
Local Time: 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JOFO
I'm not voting for Bush, but a few observations here:

Bush is hijacking religion the same way he's hijacking the American flag; if you vote for Kerry, apparently your faith is weak. If you vote for Kerry, you're not voting for a strong America. I hate his stance on both these things.
JOFO, I couldn't agree with you more.

One aspect of reading left-wing blogs that disturbs me is that some posters tend to dismiss religion and faith. I cannot agree with this. I have what I feel is a strong sense of faith. I pray a lot, and usually not for things like winning the lottery or meeting a good man...I thank God for good things that have happened to me and others, that it's a nice day outside...you get the idea.

There are sites on the web that have shown me that I am not the only person who believe in faith AND Kerry:
www.johnkerry.com/communities.faith
and I love this one, it's really beautiful:
www.keprayerteam.org
Diane L is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 03:36 PM   #19
Acrobat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: texas.
Posts: 459
Local Time: 03:11 AM
A Wanderer; "When I became a conscious atheist (I think that was when, for the hundredth time, in spite of my prayers, God almighty didn’t grant me the grades I needed at junior high school."


.....I feel sorry for you.
edgeboy is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:13 PM   #20
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by JOFO
I'm not voting for Bush, but a few observations here:

Bush is hijacking religion the same way he's hijacking the American flag; if you vote for Kerry, apparently your faith is weak. If you vote for Kerry, you're not voting for a strong America. I hate his stance on both these things.

btw, that article is wrong on one thing for sure: his analogy about learning the piano, in that you need to learn it before you can love it; simply not true. take it from a pianist.
Agreed.

Also agree with your take on the piano analogy, which also works for other arts, etc. I know a painter who lovedit from his very first go. Many people are like that -- they fall in love with something and then become good at it (well, sometimes they never become good at it.... But they enjoy it!).

And I'd be very willing to buy Bush a one way plane ticket to Brasil (I'd send him to you in Oz, A_Wanderer, but I couldn't do something so horrid to Kilbey and co. )
__________________

indra is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×