Why Feminism Harms Women

[A_Wanderer]

Ladies, quit your moping and get back to the kitchen

It is widely reported that women suffer depression at twice the rate of men. Apparently, more women are clinically depressed than ever before.

On the assumption that these assessments are true, the question anyone interested in the subject -- which means anyone who cares about any woman -- is, why?

As one who regularly talks to women, and about men and women, on my radio show and who has informally counseled women of all ages, I would like to offer some explanations that may run counter to currently acceptable ones, but which should shed light on the subject.

Assuming that any new phenomenon -- in this case, much higher rates of depression among women -- suggests a new cause, the major new cause can only be the consequences of feminism.

This does not mean that feminism has achieved nothing good. Of course it has. A movement for equality between the sexes, an attempt to remove all sex-based obstacles to a woman's right to do whatever she wishes with her life, must do some good.

But how much good feminism has achieved is unrelated to the question of whether it is a, or even the, primary contributor to the rise in depression among so many women. One can view feminism as the greatest social achievement since the emancipation of slaves and still regard it as the major reason many women are depressed.

So, enumerating the reasons feminism has caused many women's depression is not necessarily an indictment of feminism. Many good social developments come with personal prices.

We begin our list with the expectations feminism raised in a generation of women.

As I wrote in my book on happiness ("Happiness Is a Serious Problem," HarperCollins), much unhappiness comes from having expectations. When our expectations are not fulfilled -- and most are not -- we can become unhappy and even bitter. And when our expectations are fulfilled, we are no happier because fulfilled expectations undermine gratitude (we are not grateful when we get what assume we will get) and gratitude is indispensable to happiness.

Feminism raised women's expectations beyond what life can deliver to the vast majority of them. It was hard enough for women in the past to realize their far fewer expectations of marrying a good man and making a happy family. But feminism told a generation of women that they can not only expect to have that but, perhaps even more important to feminism, they could also expect to have a fulfilling, financially rewarding, society-honoring career.

I wish all Americans could hear the women who call my radio show who tell of how they were raised to believe this feminist promise, and therefore pursued often successful careers while delaying marriage. And now at 35, 40, 45 years of age, they wonder why that career is so unfulfilling and now yearn for a man and family they put off having.

For most women -- of course, not all -- careers are not nearly as fulfilling as are a good marriage and family. The astronaut who destroyed her career -- perhaps the most prestigious career in America for either a man or a woman -- out of romantic jealousy is an extreme but instructive example.

Unless one believes that women and men are the same and therefore the same things bring them happiness, the feminist emphasis on career has been an obstacle to many women's happiness. As a rule, women derive most of their happiness from relationships, not from work. Men need both to be happy far more than women do. Men's very identity is predicated on their answer to the question, "What do you do?" Whether fair or not -- to either sex -- virtually no woman's identity is dependent on what she does for a living. That is why, while both sexes suffer financially from the loss of a job, when men lose their jobs, they often also lose their self-worth as a man. The greater importance of work to men is also manifested in their willingness to work many more hours than woman.

To make things even worse for many women, not only are most women not finding their careers nearly as fulfilling as they had been led to expect, they rarely find the demands of home life lessened much. Now many women experience double the pressure -- having to succeed in jobs outside of the home and, as much as ever, inside the home. The feminist promise that everything in their marriage will be 50-50 -- each partner will do half the outside work, half the housework, and half the child rearing -- has rarely panned out. Most men will work their tails off outside the home, but won't inside the home. Consequently, many working women either experience increased tension with their husband or increased pressure to succeed both outside the home and inside the home as mother, homemaker, and wife.

Failed expectations are not the only reason many more women are depressed. But it is a big one. And there are more.

link

 

[deep]

I have not read the whole article

but it is safe to say

us white, healthy, straight males are most likely the least depressed

culture and society reward the proper groups


hegemony rocks

 

[diamond]

I have not read the whole article

but it is safe to say

us white, healthy, straight males are most likely the least depressed

culture and society reward the proper groups


hegemony rocks

you know how depressing is being related to you?

 

[financeguy]

I have not read the whole article

but it is safe to say

us white, healthy, straight males are most likely the least depressed

culture and society reward the proper groups


hegemony rocks

Suicide rates among young males are the highest of any demographic.

A holocaust of male youth - largely ignored on FYM, and elsewhere.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Did they only count suicide, or suicide attempts as well?
What I've read last, in Europe suicide attempts among men and women do not differ that much. Only difference was that among males those attempts far more often resulted in death, while women more often survived their attempts. That was because men are more likely to take measures such as shooting themselves, hanging or jumping, while women more often took overdoses or cut their artery.

What does "largely ignored on FYM" mean? The last two threads you mentioned that it was other topics being discussed. And I cannot remember you opening a thread about a study on suicide, if it's so important to you.
A bit of a stretch then to say it is getting ignored.

Could you provide figures for your "holocaust of male youth" claim? And maybe also recent figures including attempted suicide among men and women?

 

[BVS]

A holocaust of male youth - largely ignored on FYM, and elsewhere.

A holocaust? Come on man...

And it's not ignored, it's just your conclusions from these facts are ridiculous.

 

[financeguy]

Could you provide figures for your "holocaust of male youth" claim? And maybe also recent figures including attempted suicide among men and women?

No, I won't. The figures are readily available. I'm not doing your research for you.

 

[financeguy]

And it's not ignored, it's just your conclusions from these facts are ridiculous.

What conclusions?

 

[BVS]

What conclusions?

That this means men are being discriminated against.

Have you forgot your conclusions?

 

[Vincent Vega]

No, I won't. The figures are readily available. I'm not doing your research for you.

Wow, I just kindly asked. You make claims, you have to back them up.

 

[financeguy]

That this means men are being discriminated against.

Have you forgot your conclusions?

I drew no such conclusions, you clown.

You're telling lies. With any other poster, I'd give the benefit of the doubt and put it down to misunderstanding, but given your consistent habit of misrepresenting my point of view (and that of other conservative posters), I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DrTeeth]

Guys, don't just piss all over Financeguy, this article deserves to be mocked just the same.

 

[yolland]

Back to the thread topic...

The reality is that these kinds of appeals to "the good old days" when (most) women didn't work outside the home (does he have reliable data on clinical depression incidence for that period?) are pretty much moot in the face of present-day economic realities anyway. For a great many families, it simply isn't financially tenable in the longterm for one partner to never work outside the home. And even if one is willing and the family's current financial situation permits it, I still think it's ill-advised to not at least have a part-time job, so that your eggs aren't all in one basket and you've at least got a foot in the door somewhere and a work history to show for yourself should the unexpected happen. Especially if you've got children to support. As far as personal fulfillment and gratitude for what you do, if you've found that, great, consider yourself blessed--but accountability for yours and your family's welfare comes first.

 

[Irvine511]

A holocaust of male youth - largely ignored on FYM, and elsewhere.

a holocaust of gay youth would be more accurate.

if we're going to swing this way.

 

[Irvine511]

(does he have reliable data on clinical depression incidence for that period?)

pshaw.

back then, people were tougher. depression wasn't anything a stiff gin and tonic and a valium couldn't fix but quick.

 

[Bono's shades]

Since this column comes from Townhall, it's obviously just conservative scare-mongering about the supposed evils of feminism.

 

[kafrun]

Feminism raised women's expectations beyond what life can deliver to the vast majority of them.

Buh??

As a rule, women derive most of their happiness from relationships, not from work.

Tell that to the countless women who are bored and isolated as stay-at-home mothers and homemakers.

 

[Harry Vest]

Some of this article has truth to it and some doesn't...or should I say with some people this article holds true and with others it holds false. It's really a matter of the person. So, let him/her post this article - why not??? It makes for some interesting discussion does it not?

 

[BVS]

I drew no such conclusions, you clown.

You're telling lies. With any other poster, I'd give the benefit of the doubt and put it down to misunderstanding, but given your consistent habit of misrepresenting my point of view (and that of other conservative posters), I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

What, you didn't think I could look up the thread which I was referring to? I found the thread, and the website you used to link your conclusions. This has nothing to do with conservatism.

In order to keep this thread on topic I will not post them in here. You'll be getting a PM.

 

[indra]

But apparently there are some perks for being female and depressed -- at least for Australian depressed women. link

Depressed women have more sex than those who are happier, regardless of whether they are in a relationship or not, a study of Australians has found.

A survey of Melbourne women presented at an international mental health conference has concluded that females who suffer from mild to moderate depression have a third more sexual activity than those who are not.

They also had more sexually liberated attitudes, a bigger variety of sexual experiences and, if single, were more likely to partake in casual sex, Dr Sabura Allen, a clinical psychologist at Monash University, said.

"It was more sex and more of everything from kissing to petting, foreplay and intercourse," said Dr Allen, who studied the recent sexual experiences of 107 depressed and non-depressed women who were in relationships.

"We knew this anecdotally from clinical samples but this is the first time it's been shown in research."

She said depressed women were likely seeking out sexual intimacy more often to help feel more secure.

"When people are depressed they feel more insecure about their relationships and concerned that their partner may not care about them or find them valuable," Dr Allen said.

"Having sex helps them feel that closeness and security."

Asked whether intercourse could be an effective balm for depression, the psychologist said "we really don't know but we presume it helps as it gives these women opportunities to be close to their partner and loved."

The team also is investigating depressed single women and has found a trend towards more casual sex than happier singles.

Dr Allen said Australian couples tend have sex between once and three times a week, with "very much the majority in the once a week group". Single women have it "significantly less", but the same is not necessarily true of single men.

The study, soon to be published in a British medical journal, was presented at the International Congress on Women's Mental Health in Melbourne where the latest research in mental illness and hormone-related conditions is being showcased.

New studies have shown high rates of severe PMS and post-natal depression among Australian women, a dramatic drop in the abortion rate, and a promising new treatment for Alzheimer's disease.

 

[anitram]

I love when men write articles explaining to us women why we feel the way we feel. Classic.

 

[Irvine511]

I love when men write articles explaining to us women why we feel the way we feel. Classic.

it's because you're too emotional. can't think clearly about your own situation.

 

[financeguy]

The article is very simplistic. By and large, I disagree with it.

That said, we would be foolish to completely ignore the negative effects of the 'gender revolution' - for example, as Yolland mentioned, both parents these days having to work outside the home to give anything like a reasonable standard of living for their kids.

 

[anitram]

That said, we would be foolish to completely ignore the negative effects of the 'gender revolution' - for example, as Yolland mentioned, both parents these days having to work outside the home to give anything like a reasonable standard of living for their kids.

Did the gender revolution cause a drop in wages?

 

[BVS]

That said, we would be foolish to completely ignore the negative effects of the 'gender revolution' - for example, as Yolland mentioned, both parents these days having to work outside the home to give anything like a reasonable standard of living for their kids.

"HAVING to work outside the home..."

How is that a result of the 'gender revolution'?

 

[financeguy]

Ceteris paribus, what effect is increased labour participation rates likely to have on property prices?

 

[BVS]

Ceteris paribus, what effect is increased labour participation rates likely to have on property prices?

So less participation, less innovation, less production, etc would mean we are better off?

 

[financeguy]

So less participation, less innovation, less production, etc would mean we are better off?

I'm not sure what you find problematic about my question, because your response does not even remotely relate to it. Can you explain which aspect you're having difficulty with, and I'll attempt to rephrase.

 

[BVS]

I'm not sure what you find problematic about my question, because your response does not even remotely relate to it. Can you explain which aspect you're having difficulty with, and I'll attempt to rephrase.

I'm familiar with the term 'Ceteris paribus' used in economics, but I have to admit I've never seen it used like this.

But, if I understand right you are saying that because women started participating in the workforce we "increased labour participation" therefore we likely increased property prices. Am I correct in assuming so?

If so, then aren't you saying if we never increased participation, therefore never increasing inovation or production, then we'd be better off?

 

[financeguy]

But, if I understand right you are saying that because women started participating in the workforce we "increased labour participation" therefore we likely increased property prices. Am I correct in assuming so?

Actually, I'm merely posing the question. But yes, I'd consider it reasonably likely that increased particpation rates are one of the factors driving the growth in property prices - and, of course, associated mortgage costs - that we have seen in recent years.

If so, then aren't you saying if we never increased participation, therefore never increasing inovation or production, then we'd be better off?

I'd like you to explain what you mean by 'better off' in this context.