Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

[Moonlit_Angel]

Should we chose not to, he loves us enough to let us make our own decisions. I guess you could actually say, in a way, hell is something we chose.

Course, then I'd have to turn around and ask those who think that way why they don't follow another religion just in case they happen to be wrong in the end about Christianity-if they're wrong, they could be punished, too, for refusing to accept another god as the true one. But those people are willing to stick with their own faith regardless of that fact, so I don't understand why some of those same people expect, force (and sometimes even kill) those who don't agree with their religions beliefs to join up-if you don't have to, why should others?

And okay, God loves us enough to make our own decisions...but to have us burn? I could understand sending those who don't accept God to a place where they don't have to see him, but why does it have to include such suffering and the burning and all that stuff? I guess that's what's always confused me.

Angela

 

[A_Wanderer]

God wants a relantionship with us, in order to make a positive contribution. God has the morals that we need to suceed. But if we are not willing to listen to god, and the particular morals, then we become selfish, and focus on "selfish and individual salvation".. How many christians give a crap about what goes on in Africa.. the genocide, the starving people? How many of us christians had to balls to vote against the lunatic in office at the White House?

Christians control the western world, yet it remains one full of sin. So Somebody is missing the point.. maybe god is not fully onboard with us.

The war in Iraq was an agression.

It is fact, that once Saddam was thrown out, the americans troops first safeguarded the oil fields. Museums on ancient babylonian history, including timeless and priceless artifacts, were looted at free willl.. never to be found again,

Over 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died in this war, not to mention 2,000 coalition troops,

THIS IS NOT PART OF GOD'S PLAN

This is Satan, manipulating the figure of god to keep the world's most powerful economy, in control of the world's 2nd biggest proven reserve of oil.. IRAQ.

Wish to debate this point... go ahead.

Bush has more in touch with Satan than Jesus.

God bless and peace.

Mark

Oh for the love of your God. Like you need to have God on your side when doing anything ~ especially a God that would sit back and oversee the most vile slaughters of human history, You just pulled figures out of your arse such as that over 50,000 civilians killed and 2,000 coalition troops and then tell us that it is all Satan's doing.

You launch a tirade against Conservative Christians and Right Wingers ~ the permanent bogeymen of the left and then make a statement that if reversed (i.e. Bush says that he believes Saddam Hussein was being manipulated by Satan or General Boykins statement about seeing Satan in Mogadishu) you would call it grade A religious lunacy. God is your own damn inventions and you all see exactly what you want to see in it ~ a god who loves and accepts homosexuality versus a god who hates the sin but loves the sinner, a god who is universal versus a god who is exclusively Christian or whatever. Can't people fucking seperate their politics and their bloody religion or are their heads so permanently up their arses that they have to pull in divine authority to justify their arguments.

Bush is not influenced by God, Bush is not influenced by Satan ~ he is influenced by his own faith and those principles that he believes in whether you like them or not.

 

[financeguy]

Oh for the love of your God.

It's a good thing you inserted the word "your" otherwise we might have thought you believed in God or something

 

[financeguy]

God is your own damn inventions and you all see exactly what you want to see in it

"God is your own damn inventions." Hmmm....not entirely sure about that. Speaking as an agnostic one has to be equivocal.

 

[melon]

God is anything you want Him/Her/It to be. History has certainly proven that.

Melon

 

[melon]

Can't people fucking seperate their politics and their bloody religion or are their heads so permanently up their arses that they have to pull in divine authority to justify their arguments.

Ah but secularism is a more "modern" development (18th century onwards). Old habits die hard, and egotistical clerics on a power trip are more difficult to deal with.

Melon

 

[Dreadsox]

One of the biggest mysteries to me,

Jesus stood against:

Greed, arrogance, elitism, social classes, segregation, prejudice.


How is the bible in any way, cognizant with god's word?

Just because a few people decide to make lip service to whole abortion/gay thing?

Conservative christians ought to look at themselves and ask some serious questions

I think EVERYONE needs to look at their beliefs and ask serious questions.

If you believe the issues of abortion/gay marriage are the only things Conservative Christians are involved in because of their faith, you have sadly mischaracterized many people that I know.

Do you think the Bible is not in any way, cognizant with God's word?

You do not feel that there are those in the liberal end of christianity that exhibit these or other quoalities opposite Chrsit:

Greed, arrogance, elitism, social classes, segregation, prejudice



I may disagree with the Conservative Christian on an issue or two, but there are more core issues which I think we have incommon that never get focused on.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Re: Re: Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

I may disagree with the Conservative Christian on an issue or two, but there are more core issues which I think we have incommon that never get focused on.

Possibly. Perhaps the most agreeable thread is a thread that sinks.

 

[swissair135]

Wanderer,

Point im trying to make is that Bush's Iraq invasion, is more cognizant with Satanic morals than Christian.

Want some figures of civilian deaths in Iraq.. well consider this my friend.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

http://civilians.info/iraq/

 

[A_Wanderer]

BAGHDAD – Evidence is mounting to suggest that between 5,000 and 10,000 Iraqi civilians may have died during the recent war, according to researchers involved in independent surveys of the country.

from the CSM article from 2003.

The WaPo article references the lancet survey that gave 95% CI of 8,000 - 200,000 killed civilians when they eliminated the Falujah cluster. It is simply not plausible. The figure of 100,000 is just so much different than documented casualties and it is derived from statistal analysis with some notable problems (as outlined quite well in this slate article http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887/ )

I think that the most accurate can be the iraqbodycount.net figure of between 16,000 and 18,500 ~ which when compared to the ammount of death inflicted by Saddam against his own people throughout the 1990's and early 2000's (as in people killed in an average year not one of his bumber Anfal campaign years that could knock that figure up too much) and weighed up with the possiblity of some instability in the middle east (something that I am very much for ~ considering that it is the "stability" of the Bashir Assads, Saddam Husseins and House of Saud that created the problems we are dealing with today ~ instability can wind up toppling these regimes and bringing about rapid change notably democratic change) is worthwhile.

Liberating people from one of the most abhorent dictatorships of the latter 20th century and quite possibly initiating a new wave of democratic revolutions not seen since the collapse of the USSR is in my own opinion the right thing to do even if it is not the Christian thing to do.

 

[swissair135]

A democratic revolution in Iraq?

This issue is way too complex to simplify as such. I can write a 10,000 page essay about the issue of the middle east, and most of the problems are of course caused by oil, and thereby uneven distribution of wealth as of result of oil proceeds. Hence, the founded raison d'etre for Al-Qaeda (if you look past the whole religion/Islam bullshit).

As long as there are abundant proven reserves of oil in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, there will be wars/terrorism in the middle east.. democracy will never thrive there, unless a self-inflicted revolution occurs... the conditions can only be created by the Western World ceasing their support and contribution to the very tiny segment of the population, that absorbs most of the wealth from the export of oil.

If Iraq had no oil, the United States would have NO intention of "liberating" Iraq from a cruel dictator. And given all the god propaganda that has been associated with the invasion, the god of the bible certainly would not see this as an act of self-defense... because the intent is very black and white, if your willing to accept it.

OF course this is a conspiracy theory right

We are getting off-topic

 

[Dreadsox]

Wanderer,

Point im trying to make is that Bush's Iraq invasion, is more cognizant with Satanic morals than Christian.

Want some figures of civilian deaths in Iraq.. well consider this my friend.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

http://civilians.info/iraq/

Pardon me while I disagree with your interpretation, or shall I quote the rate of death before the invasion which would have a higher number of civilian casualties than the war. Doing NOTHING was equally bloody.

 

[Dreadsox]

OF course this is a conspiracy theory right

We are getting off-topic

yes, start your own thread in war....we debated this months before the war, months during the war, and months after the war.

 

[verte76]

I'm not a Bush supporter either but I think comparing him with Satan is excessive. I supported him in Afghanistan because of the Taliban's sheer cruelty but not in Iraq, and I can't stand his domestic policies. But I'm not confusing him with Satan.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Saddam did more damage than the Taliban ever did ~ he just had the veneer of modernity masking the opression and death.

 

[Jamila]

Quie simply, Christianity is neither right wing or left wing.

People who attempt to make Christianity fit into their political agenda and condemn all others who disagree with them are completely against what Christianity is all about.

If the conservatives here who want to always bash those of us who continue to remind them of our COMMAND as Christians to attend to the needs of the poor, let me remind them of:



THE FIRST EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE
CORINTHIANS

CHAPTER 13
Paul extols the high status of charity—Charity, a pure love, excels and exceeds almost all else.

1 THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of aprophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity denvieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her bown, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.




The Beatitudes

1And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:


3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you


Anything else that we come up with pales in comparision with these words by the masters.

 

[melon]

Saddam did more damage than the Taliban ever did ~ he just had the veneer of modernity masking the opression and death.

But that wasn't the reason we invaded Iraq. It was out of fear that his "oppression and death" would hit the U.S. mainland. Same with Afghanistan, really. But I guess it's okay when Saudi Arabia beheads people, because it's our "ally." Hell, they even torture our suspects for us!

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

. God is your own damn inventions and you all see exactly what you want to see in it ~ a god who loves and accepts homosexuality versus a god who hates the sin but loves the sinner, a god who is universal versus a god who is exclusively Christian or whatever. Can't people fucking seperate their politics and their bloody religion or are their heads so permanently up their arses that they have to pull in divine authority to justify their arguments.

Bush is not influenced by God, Bush is not influenced by Satan ~ he is influenced by his own faith and those principles that he believes in whether you like them or not.

i don't agree with your position on the war, but when it comes to the role religion should play in politics -- which is to say, no role at all -- all i can say is

bush was recently quoted as saying that the freedom we're seeing in the middle east (a debatable statement) comes not from america, but from a higher power (loosely paraphrased). garbage. that freedom comes from other people agreeing upon a shared set of values -- i.e., each individual life has worth -- and then people agreeing, en masse, to live these principles. it has nothing to do with God, though i suppose a faith in a higher power that confers a sense of worth and allows the shepard covered in sheep shit to come in off the field and point at the pharoh and say "in the eyes of god we are equal," is a powerful thing. fine. that's alovely idea, but it only has power when it finds a secular political expression. but God does not grant freedom -- people do. and this is what we saw in the Ukraine, people seizing control of the destiny of their country, doing that old Republican cliche of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and saying, "no, we will not let Moscow dictate our elections."

God didn't do it. people did. this is existential freedom at its finest.

 

[cardosino]

i don't know where they come form, but the form the base of the Republican party which is currently in control of all branches of government in the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. they also make no secret about the tenets of their brand of Christianity. i'm sorry that they distort the religion, but i also think it behooves others who identify as Christians to reclaim the definiton of their religion.

Many already do. Not publicized in the media too much of course.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

Jamila thanks for your post.

 

[Irvine511]

Many already do. Not publicized in the media too much of course.

then work harder at getting your message out. learn how to work the apparatus in the same way your more conservative Christians already have. don't whine and blame the media, make the media work for you.

they're winning. fight back.

 

[cardosino]

then work harder at getting your message out. learn how to work the apparatus in the same way your more conservative Christians already have. don't whine and blame the media, make the media work for you.

they're winning. fight back.

We're getting there........

God's Politics being on the New YorK Times Best seller list is helping, it won't be an overnight victory though.

You of all people should know how long radical mindset changes can take.

 

[Irvine511]

We're getting there........

God's Politics being on the New YorK Times Best seller list is helping, it won't be an overnight victory though.

You of all people should know how long radical mindset changes can take.

i do. and i do wish you the best of luck.

and when you figure out how to work the media as well as the conservative political Christians, please let the democrats know.

they could use the help these days.

 

[swissair135]

In the past, Saddam was buoyed by oil revenues.

Take that money out of his hands, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia.... then you have the conditions for a major democratic revolution in that area.

Take that many away from the rich monarchy in Saudi Arabia, and the whole place will change, long-term of course.

 

[Jamila]

You're welcome, Golightly Grrrl.

It is amazing that everyone talks AROUND the New Testament, but when reminded of the DIRECT WORDS in that sacred text, "christians" ignore them.

The test of a Christian's Faith is the degree to which they devote AS MUCH OF THEIR LIFE AS POSSIBLE to the direct alleviation of others' pain and suffering in the world.

All the pretty churches and all the sweet sounding hymns in the world means nothing to the God of the New Testament. It is what YOU DO for others that will get you into Heaven.

And many christians just don't get it.

I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....

 

[Jamila]

bump

 

[Scarletwine]

It's curious that the discussion of the the right's subversion of Christ's teachings was rerailed to a discussion on the authority/punishment of God. I didn't hear one defense or explanation for the tenets endorsed by the "Moral Majority" nor for the actions of this administration as upholding the word of God. To my understanding, as Jamila pointed out, they are in direct contrast to the NT.

So, if you take abortion and Gay rights out of the equation, how do Christians support the Republican agenda of corporate welfare, unequal taxation, and reducing programs that assist the poor?

 

[cardosino]

It's curious that the discussion of the the right's subversion of Christ's teachings was rerailed to a discussion on the authority/punishment of God. I didn't hear one defense or explanation for the tenets endorsed by the "Moral Majority" nor for the actions of this administration as upholding the word of God. To my understanding, as Jamila pointed out, they are in direct contrast to the NT.

So, if you take abortion and Gay rights out of the equation, how do Christians support the Republican agenda of corporate welfare, unequal taxation, and reducing programs that assist the poor?

Not all Christians do.......many do not.

 

[Scarletwine]

I agree 100%. I'm a Christian myself and do not feel that way at all.
I should have noted that I meant the supporters of religious right's support of Republican agendas. How do they justify that support.

I

 

[Teta040]

The only way the "progressive Christian" can effectively fight back is start their own TV station, (not simply a talk show or three, or a radio personality or two,) but a TV STATION on the order of Fox news, that does the left-wing version of what Fox does for the right. Considering that for the most part, Fox, which started out a decent station with an ABC-like rightward tilt, has degenerated under the present Bush to little more than a government propagnda mouthpice for Adminsitration policies and lobbying machanism (I wonder what would happen if somebody like O'Rielly privately got ticked off at a certain "proposed"guest on his show, and tried to refuse to have them on the air? It seems that whenver Bush wants someone to promote a train of thought, they get instant Fox access). For the most part, their methods of "reporting" turn me off too. The Left--and leftist Christians--would have to stoop to that simplistic level of "reporting", have that same kind of rapic-fire government access, and resort to the simlistivc tactics of shouting, cutting people off when they don't agree, etc etc. They would also have to be immune to criticism fromany quarters, any hint of scandal would have to mysteriously disappear immediately, no matter how large, and they would have to have unlimited funds coming from any number of lobbying groups.

There would also have to be a full-tilt publishing house,or funded part of major publishing houses, pushing progressive beleifs. Every time I turn around, there is a new book coming out about "character", and Bush is on the cover. One book or two won'tcut it. Sometimes I think Bush has a "publishing fund" to shell to prople, urging them to write good things about him.

The radical conservative apparatus is not only too well-funded (corporate America knoiws where its bread is buttered) but has too easy government access. I don't think anyprevious Administration has been so aggressive in pushing its "legacy" so well in advance, before its existence is even over.