Why does christianity = conservative right wing?

[nbcrusader]

oh, that means everyone who chose the wrong religion is going to hell.. comforting.

All we can do is present the evidence before you. What you do with it is between you and God.

do you really believe god is this power obsessed guy who likes to exert authority over his subjects, asks them to pray to him occasionally and if they dont, he leaves them?

No. But how do you respond to a God who would voluntarily die on a cross for your benefit?

 

[financeguy]

Initially I was puzzled on joining here that there seemed to be so few non-Christians and, frankly, at the pro-American bias. Now I've realised why - as soon as soon as someone from a different background joins and starts posting people start trying to convert them!

 

[edgeboy]

Amen to that!

 

[coemgen]

I'm not trying to convert you or anyone. AllIWant asked what you had to do to accept God and I explained.
I understand there are U2 fans who aren't Christians. That's fine. I respect them. However, just because there are different views out there, that's not going to keep me from sharing mine or what I know to be the truth. This is the free your mind forum afterall.

 

[nbcrusader]

According to you. You must be aware that there are U2 fans who are not Christians? E.G. Muslim fans, atheists, etc.

This thread is a question about Christianity. It is open to all to read and respond.

 

[nbcrusader]

Initially I was puzzled on joining here that there seemed to be so few non-Christians and, frankly, at the pro-American bias. Now I've realised why - as soon as soon as someone from a different background joins and starts posting people start trying to convert them!

Where is this "trying to covert them" that you speak of?

Please don't play the "if you talk about Christianity, you are ramming your beliefs down my throat" card. If questions are raised, expect responses.

How you deal with them is your business.

 

[financeguy]

This thread is a question about Christianity. It is open to all to read and respond.

Yes but the point is there are comments in the thread saying, or implying, basically that Christianity is the only way, end of story, full stop! If it is the policy of the mods that only Christians are allowed to respond to certain threads then let's see them put that policy in place.

Until such time as they do I will assume that non-Christians are entitled to post in threads dealing with Christianity.

 

[all_i_want]

Yes, Christianity is the only way. That sounds close minded to people, I know. But think about it – if Christ (who was fully God and fully man) died the ultimate death in our place because the "wages of sin is death" and "all have fallen short of the glory of God" then why would God accept you chosing another way? Truth is absolute here, not relative. It's not in fashion. We can't follow the latest religion trend here.

God wants us to love him back. He wants a relationship with us. He wants to bless us. He wants us to put him first, and accept him of Lord of our lives. He wants us to worship him. We were created for all this. People who don't have this relationship with him often feel empty. It's because they "worship" other things instead of God, money, sex, material things, power, etc.

To accept his love and his sacrifice, all you have to do is pray to him and say "God, I know that I have sinned against you or gone against your ways and I'm sorry. I know your son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross for me so that I may have the opportunity to be forgiven for my sins and spend eternity with you. Thank you for this sacrifice, this gift. I now accept Christ as my lord and savior and will walk according to his ways. Amen."

God also wants you to experience his love. All you have to do is say 'yes' in your heart.

sorry, but i dont believe that god discriminates between its subjects and just sends the christians to heaven and the rest to hell. and there is no amount of reasoning that can make me accept something like that.

the way i see it, as long as you believe in god, i am not saying a particular religion, you can have the relationship you were talking about.


also, i dont buy the 'original sin' either. why would i be punished for something completely out of my control? so the last paragraph is just christian doctrine, it doesnt prove anything

'God wants us to love him back. He wants a relationship with us. He wants to bless us. He wants us to put him first, and accept him of Lord of our lives. He wants us to worship him. We were created for all this. '

this part makes me smile, cause god is an ideal being. it is perfect, does not have needs, is not flawed by things such as selfishness and jealousy. the idea that god created us to worship him rather than for us to live our lives and experience the great gift that is life suggests me that the god you are talking about is pretty selfish. also, being the almighty, powerful and perfect being it is, i dont think god would need our love or our constant worship, and it does not want something it doesnt need. the best way to appreciate gods love is to appreciate the life it gave us, and to keep living. every breath we take is a sufficient display of our appreciation.

thats what i believe.

it would probably bring the moral and religious system out there crumbling down, wouldnt it?

 

[financeguy]

Where is this "trying to covert them" that you speak of?

How else would you interpret the statement from Coemgen that "Christianity is the only way"?

 

[nbcrusader]

Yes but the point is there are comments in the thread saying, or implying, basically that Christianity is the only way, end of story, full stop! If it is the policy of the mods that only Christians are allowed to respond to certain threads then let's see them put that policy in place.

Until such time as they do I will assume that non-Christians are entitled to post in threads dealing with Christianity.

I hope you continue to engage in the discussion.

But I believe that salvation is found through grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

You can respond to that statement any way you want.

 

[coemgen]

financeguy, you have every right to post your opinion and beliefs. Nobody is denying you of that. We have that right too as Christians. If my point of view differs from yours, that doesn't mean I'm denying you your right to expression here, attacking you personally, converting you or restricting your freedom of speech here. People debate here and you can't do that without differing opinions. I respect that you have your own opinion, why can't you respect that of me and others here?

 

[all_i_want]

I hope you continue to engage in the discussion.

But I believe that salvation is found through grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

You can respond to that statement any way you want.

well, isnt that basicly telling non-christians 'my way or the highway'?

 

[edgeboy]

To all you christians,don't feel ashamed or wrong about the
idea of converting people because the best way to show you
love to God is to express that love to others.

 

[nbcrusader]

well, isnt that basicly telling non-christians 'my way or the highway'?

No. It is telling non-Christians "Christ’s way or the highway". It is what we read in Scripture.

You can accept it, reject it, ignore it, or discuss it.

You are not the first to struggle or reject the idea that salvation is in Christ alone.

Yes, it sounds "exclusive" or "intolerant". But Jesus' teachings were radical for their time and are radical today.

 

[financeguy]

But I believe that salvation is found through grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

You can respond to that statement any way you want.

That statement is fine!

I have no problem with that statement whatever, I don't think anyone would.

I just think we need to be careful at this point in history as regards people who might not be Christians, e.g., Muslims, who might be fans of U2 and might post on this forum. I wouldn't want to see them not feeling welcome, that's all I'm saying.

 

[all_i_want]

No. It is telling non-Christians "Christ’s way or the highway". It is what we read in Scripture.

You can accept it, reject it, ignore it, or discuss it.

You are not the first to struggle or reject the idea that salvation is in Christ alone.

Yes, it sounds "exclusive" or "intolerant". But Jesus' teachings were radical for their time and are radical today.

with such inherent belief that the god is on their side, that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it is no wonder that conservative christians are impossible to convince

scripture would of course write that, it couldnt really say, 'well, this is what we got down so far, wait for the next edition of our holy book series, we'll send one as soon as its finished!'

frankly, i believe that god probably did send us messengers, although we persecuted and brutally killed some of them, but there is no way i could accept the idea of christianity that is being presented at the moment. christ's way or the highway? no thanks.

 

[coemgen]

All I Want — God is perfect and holy. This is true. He did create us to live our lives too, I never said he didn't. He created us to have a relationship with him, including loving him (ie worship him. and worship doesn't mean bowing down to an authority as a requirement, it means loving him with all your heart. What's wrong with that?) Think of it as a father having children. Is a parent who wants to have children selfish, or loving? My wife and I have two boys — 22-month-old Brendan and 3-month-old Aidan. My wife and I didn't have kids so they would be our slaves and bow down before us and serve our needs only, we had children out of love. We wanted to love children, be there for them, help them grow, learn and live. It's the same thing with God. You're God's child and so am I.
God doesn't need our love, he wants it.

You said the best way to appreciate God's love is to appreciate the life he gave us and to keep living — I would say that's part of it. However, it's also how you live to. If my son grows up and constantly disobeys me as a father and goes against me in everything he does and denies me as a parental figure, but continues to live, is he really showing me love?

 

[financeguy]

Well, anyway Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all share the same roots, to an extent! I know there are quite a few significant theological differences between them.

As a non-believer in either of the three Gods I have my own opinions on which I prefer - but that could only be because I am from a Christian background. When leaders of countries start claiming they have God on their side, that's when I get worried.

 

[nbcrusader]

with such inherent belief that the god is on their side, that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it is no wonder that conservative christians are impossible to convince

Convince of what? That we are evil?

And it is not a belief that God is on our side. We are on God's side.

scripture would of course write that, it couldnt really say, 'well, this is what we got down so far, wait for the next edition of our holy book series, we'll send one as soon as its finished!'

Wait, people try this all the time. Look at the Book of Mormon. It is claimed to be the next edition.

frankly, i believe that god probably did send us messengers, although we persecuted and brutally killed some of them, but there is no way i could accept the idea of christianity that is being presented at the moment. christ's way or the highway? no thanks.

OK.

 

[coemgen]

I agree with you there financeguy! (can we use this as a way back to the original point of the thread now?)

 

[financeguy]

My wife and I have two boys — 22-month-old Brendan and 3-month-old Aidan.

Two good Irish names there!

 

[all_i_want]

Well, anyway Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all share the same roots, to an extent! I know there are quite a few significant theological differences between them.

As a non-believer in either of the three Gods I have my own opinions on which I prefer - but that could only be because I am from a Christian background. When leaders of countries start claiming they have God on their side, that's when I get worried.

true

everyone can believe whatever they want, as long as they dont disregard other people's faiths by, lets say, saying our way is the only way and the rest of you are going to hell. all three religions suffer from this and i dont think it is a positive contribution to co-existence of people of different beliefs.

edit: nbc, im not saying conservative christians are evil or anything, everyone's faith to themselves, but saying your way is the only way is equal to saying everyone else is wrong, and in a religious context i find that intolerant towards people of different faith

 

[deep]

Convince of what? That we are evil?

no,

just an alternative point of view.

 

[coemgen]

That's why I picked the names, finance guy. I think I told you before, I have Irish blood in me and I've visited the mother land and call it my real home now. Beautiful place. You're a lucky guy to live there.

 

[financeguy]

That's why I picked the names, finance guy. I think I told you before, I have Irish blood in me and I've visited the mother land and call it my real home now. Beautiful place. You're a lucky guy to live there.

Yes indeed I remember our discussion on the William Lane Craig debate.

Ireland has its pros and cons like anywhere else!

 

[coemgen]

I'm outta here. Peace and God bless.

 

[blueyedpoet]

Yes, just war is the only war that's condoned by God. I'm saying the "turn the other cheek" argument doesn't apply here.

Actually there is something remarkable going on there. Jesus was speaking to those who live in poverty. Many times Roman guards would slap, beat, kick the shit of the poor. Jesus was saying that if a person of high stature (such as a guard) were to slap you they would've back handed you. An open hand slap means the two are equal. So, turn your other check...either he'll slap you with an open hand (thus making you his equal) or he'll stop slapping you because he doesn't want you to be his equal.
Gandhi, for one, really took this to heart. Jesus' message here is for civil disobedience. Amazing!

 

[verte76]

I'm a practicing Catholic. All last year I kept hearing people say that I couldn't vote for Kerry and be a decent Catholic at the same time. Well, as it turned out this was *not* the official position of the Church. We were strongly encouraged to vote, but no one told me who to vote for. We heard some stuff about the issues from the pulpit, not surprisingly, abortion and gay marriage, in particular. A document called "A Catholic Call to Citizenship" was put out in every church, and it encouraged Catholics to vote based on the "consistent life ethic" which was the brainchild of Joseph Cardinal Bernardin and adopted by the Church. This includes abortion, but also health care, opposition to capital punishment and war, including opposition to pre-emptive strikes. So, it did not come down clearly on the side of either candidate. I chose Kerry. I did decide not to put a bumper sticker on my car because he was controversial in the church for his position on abortion and I go to church to get strength, not to engage in the latest controversies. The majority of practicing Catholics voted for Bush. I saw a gazillion Bush buttons in church during the campaign; I didn't see a single Kerry button, maybe the others were like me and didn't want controversy. But I'm all for taking the politics out of Christianity, I really don't like to mix them.

 

[swissair135]

God wants a relantionship with us, in order to make a positive contribution. God has the morals that we need to suceed. But if we are not willing to listen to god, and the particular morals, then we become selfish, and focus on "selfish and individual salvation".. How many christians give a crap about what goes on in Africa.. the genocide, the starving people? How many of us christians had to balls to vote against the lunatic in office at the White House?

Christians control the western world, yet it remains one full of sin. So Somebody is missing the point.. maybe god is not fully onboard with us.

The war in Iraq was an agression.

It is fact, that once Saddam was thrown out, the americans troops first safeguarded the oil fields. Museums on ancient babylonian history, including timeless and priceless artifacts, were looted at free willl.. never to be found again,

Over 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died in this war, not to mention 2,000 coalition troops,

THIS IS NOT PART OF GOD'S PLAN

This is Satan, manipulating the figure of god to keep the world's most powerful economy, in control of the world's 2nd biggest proven reserve of oil.. IRAQ.

Wish to debate this point... go ahead.

Bush has more in touch with Satan than Jesus.

God bless and peace.

Mark

 

[financeguy]

The war in Iraq was an agression.

It is fact, that once Saddam was thrown out, the americans troops first safeguarded the oil fields. Museums on ancient babylonian history, including timeless and priceless artifacts, were looted at free willl.. never to be found again,

Over 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died in this war, not to mention 2,000 coalition troops,

THIS IS NOT PART OF GOD'S PLAN

This is Satan, manipulating the figure of god to keep the world's most powerful nature, in control of the world's 2nd biggest proven reserve of oil.. IRAQ.

Wish to debate this point... go ahead.

Bush has more in touch with Satan than Jesus.

God bless and peace.

Mark

Well personally I think comparing Bush to Satan is over the top. Criticize his policies, criticize the man even, but I don't think bringing Satan into it is helpful to the debate.

In terms of your point about the war being about oil there may be some merit in that argument - but consider this, how can it be in the interests of oil companies to have prices going haywire as a result of war/instability? Their interest is in stability of oil prices surely and oil companies are happy to do business with anyone, including Saddam, once they have that!