Why Bush, Why???????

[OzAurora]

For any of you who are Bush lovers than I think I better warn you that you probably should not read any further. In this post you are going to hear my true feelings towards this guy- and it aint nice, yes all of my opinions will probably be flawed by your standards if you like him, but I dont care, no amount of persuasive rhetoric will make me change my mind-call my thoughts here subjective or whatever you like- just dont rant and rave pro-bush crap, this is a thread for those who oppose this mans beliefs to discuss why it is that he is the way that he is. So after saying that I would just like to know why this man wnats to single handedly try and start or lay the foundations down for what could be WW III, a war based on escalating the already established conflicts between christian and muslim, why does he believe that he can do this- no one apart from Blair adheres to his campaign- I for one certainly dont, I see him as an arrogant war monger trying to finsih off what his Daddy started. I realise three things for certain,

The war machine fuels the American economy

There is oil in Iraq

Sadam is a product of the Reagan adminstration's own doing- remember the Iran/Iraq war- one of their own 'puppets' who they now want to bomb the crapper out of- how hypocritical, just look back to Vietnam guys, it probably wont work or it will esculate out of and beyond control...

Why does Bush feel that he can over ride the wishes and concerns of both the UN and practically every 'western' country in the world- does this man have a plank of wood between his head??? is he a sadist and gets great pleasure from killing, maming, seeing countries struggle into economic dissaray and having countless people the world over despise both him and his policies........

Now to the issue of Sadam- sure I can congress that he is a mad-man, but in all honesty from where I stand both he and Bush dont really share to many disparities at the moment, it is kinda like who is the lesser evil?????? and really if Sadam wants to make chemical weapons, how on earth is he going to do this, where on earth is he going to get the weapons grade plutonium from???? anyway this could go on for ages but I just want to let you know that I despise Bush and everything that he stands for why does he think that he can act as a supreme, benevolent dictator to the world???? I wish he would go an nuke himself and all of his propaganda bullshit up instead

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Wow. I think that's actually what I've been wanting to say about Bush for quite some time now. As for your questions about why Bush thinks he can ignore the wishes of the rest of the world and sanction the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people, I think you summed it up with these two comments:

The war machine fuels the American economy

There is oil in Iraq

Bush, along with the rest of his ultra-conservative administration appears to think the United States has automatic rights of access to any and all natural resources it wants. If it wants control of Iraqi oil, it sees nothing wrong with bombing the country to get it. Let's not have any illusions about this, Bush doesn't care if Saddam is replaced by a dictator every bit as brutal as Saddam, so long as that dictator is friendly to the United States. After all, who sold arms to Iraq, who sent money to Iraq right through the 1980s, during the Iran-Iraq war, and during the time that Saddam was gassing his own citizens? You guessed it - the United States. After all, a country which put General Pinochet into power in Chile (on September 11th, 1973, ironically enough - I didn't notice any remembrance services for the tens of thousands murdered under Pinochet's regime last week) can hardly hold human rights in the highest regard.

 

[diamond]

Hi girls..
Bush Bono
and
I
love you
xxox
Db9

 

[pinkfloyd]

just a note to DB9 the big mun

Hello Diamond !!!!!!!!!!
How You doing old buddie , so good to see ya !!!!!



I'm extremely friendly today .
Give my Regards too .


Peace & Love .

 

[nbcrusader]

News item - Iraq agrees to allow weapons inspectors access.....

This would not have happened if Bush were among the silent leaders of the world. Global politics sometimes takes tough talk.

Peace.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

News item - Iraq agrees to allow weapons inspectors access.....

This would not have happened if Bush were among the silent leaders of the world. Global politics sometimes takes tough talk.

Peace.

I'd be a lot more impressed if the agreement hadn't been immediately dismissed as "false hope" by the White House.

I guess this may clarify the situation further though, if Bush decides to go ahead with bombing despite the readmittance of inspectors it will throughly disprove the assertion that the motivation for an attack is Iraq's violation of UN resolution and supposed possessions of weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Anthony]

I don't think I can give my opinion of Bush without upsetting his adoring fans and most certainly without using profanity in each sentence.

I can say, though, OzAurora, that I do agree with most of what you say, if not more.

It is a shame. I'd like to think that I don't let myself be driven by emotions when I write, however, if I were to write about Bush - I'd probably lose my mod status. Considering I don't want to lose it, this is reinforced by the fact that I don't want to lose it over writing about Bush.

I'll just let the others say it, there appears to be a few, anyway.

Ant.

 

[diamond]

I don't think I can give my opinion of Bush without upsetting his adoring fans and most certainly without using profanity in each sentence.

I can say, though, OzAurora, that I do agree with most of what you say, if not more.

It is a shame. I'd like to think that I don't let myself be driven by emotions when I write, however, if I were to write about Bush - I'd probably lose my mod status. Considering I don't want to lose it, this is reinforced by the fact that I don't want to lose it over writing about Bush.

I'll just let the others say it, there appears to be a few, anyway.

Ant.

Ant-
Thank you for not abusing your power and practicing 'compassionate conservativism' w/o even realizing it

DB9

 

[The Wanderer]

oh c'mon now Ant! why not have a go at him, no reason to be so timid, after all this isn't the war against the colonies!

 

[nbcrusader]

I'd be a lot more impressed if the agreement hadn't been immediately dismissed as "false hope" by the White House.

This is called keeping the pressure on. Sometimes politics is not pretty or gets under our skin - but things get done.

 

[Anthony]

after all this isn't the war against the colonies!

You called that a war? That was a skermish, dear boy.

There was once a wise man who said 'This isn't Spain, you know, this is England'... I still don't know what that means.

Compassionate conservatism, Diamond? You will have to explain that to me, because it seems like an oxymoron from where I'm standing.

In retrospect, your message SEEMS to be saying that if I were to give my opinion I would somehow be abusing my power? Not so. I could diss Conservatives until the cows come home, however, I'm not going to. Not because I'm timid, and its not because I'm noble - its because life is really too short to be arguing over something as trivial over Bush' intelligence. Whether he's the next Einstein or the next Charlie Brown, he's still going to invade Iraq and he's still going to help worsen the Middle Eastern crisis. A crisis, might I add, that is no nearer to being solved than when it was ten years ago.

Ant.

 

[U2Bama]

just dont rant and rave pro-bush crap, this is a thread for those who oppose this mans beliefs to discuss why it is that he is the way that he is.

So much for the concept of "open debate" in a forum known as "Free Your Mind."

And for all of you who are already placing your bets on Bush's ultimate respnse to Saddam's new weapons inspections offer, please remember that Saddam made the same pledges in the 1991 cease fire, violated it, and made the same promise to the UN during the Clinton era 2 or 3 times (most recently in 1998), violating it each time. Saddam seems a bit more predictable in this particular circumstance. He may very well violate his pledge again and run around screaming and crying to his current mistress "Who is America?!?!?! I am Saddam!!!!"

~U2Alabama

And p.s. I didn't post any "pro-bush crap," just some anti-saddam poo poo (I guess).

 

[diamond]

Q-Whos more predictable..Saddam lovers or Bush Haters?
A- Its a tie.

There both equally predictably miserable..

hoo
hah-

-diamond-
xxox

 

[The Wanderer]

skermish, if you like, but either way it's the reason why you have to "kiss so much American arse" in the 21st century

 

[OzAurora]

Re: Re: Why Bush, Why???????

So much for the concept of "open debate" in a forum known as "Free Your Mind."

Sorry, but I just didn't want this to turn into a 'this is why I love Bush, that was crap what you just said', kind of forum, I was hoping to get all of the Bush despisers to talk amongst themselves and discuss why his policies are the way that they are, like I said before, I dont want to hear people exclaiming why they love him or how great he is, no amount of that will ever make me be persuaded to believe that he is a decent human being and Diamond, please leave Bono out of this!!!!

And for all of you who are already placing your bets on Bush's ultimate respnse to Saddam's new weapons inspections offer, please remember that Saddam made the same pledges in the 1991 cease fire, violated it, and made the same promise to the UN during the Clinton era 2 or 3 times (most recently in 1998), violating it each time. Saddam seems a bit more predictable in this particular circumstance. He may very well violate his pledge again and run around screaming and crying to his current mistress "Who is America?!?!?! I am Saddam!!!!"

Ok- I can see this, but I can also understand why Sadam is fed up with the sanctions that have been placed on him by the US- I can see why he is pissed off, I do not condone some of his actions, however if I had been used and abused by the US in the same manner that he and his country have been since the early 80s and the days of the Iran/Iraq war, well I guess I would be wanting to say 'stuff you' to whoever the opressor was- however before you flame me, please dont take that as htough I am pro-Sadam, as I am not, however I can see where his anger towards the US probably stems from, I think that a lot of people need to wake up and realise that the US created Sadam, so ironically they only have themselves to blame.....

~U2Alabama

And p.s. I didn't post any "pro-bush crap," just some anti-saddam poo poo (I guess).

Thankyou

 

[hiphop]

The war machine fuels the American economy

There is oil in Iraq

Why does Bush feel that he can over ride the wishes and concerns of both the UN and practically every 'western' country in the world- does this man have a plank of wood between his head??? is he a sadist and gets great pleasure from killing, maming, seeing countries struggle into economic dissaray and having countless people the world over despise both him and his policies........

I don?t think he is a sadist - he just doesn?t give a fuck, which is the same bad in his position. He doesn?t care, you know. He doesn?t care about children dying or his responsibility. He is just a criminal who thinks only about himself and his friends. His hands are full of blood, but he stays totally without any emotion towards the pain that he causes.

He doesn?t get a great pleasure from killing (if I look at his career, well.... - but I think he just pursued his career). He only gets pleasure from making money and from using his power. You know, he is an ill man. A true, one hundered percent capitalist. A mass murderer.

And you can bet that he knows what he?s doing, just like every psychopathic street killer who?s able to lie to the... what do they call it... truth detector?

 

[Dreadsox]

OK

FACT: Iraq invaded another country.
FACT: They lost a war.
FACT: They agreed to a CEASE FIRE.
FACT: They violated it.
FACT: They continue to violate it.
FACT: We went to the UN.
FACT: Saudi Arabia and Egypt changed their tunes towards invasion after the Bush speech.
FACT: Inspectors are going to be "allowed" in.
FACT: The White House should react with guarded hope. We have heard Saddam's tune before.
FACT: Itaq is TOAST if Saddam does not follow through this time. The UN will take action.

Sounds like the policy is working to me.


Peace to all.

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

Re: Re: Re: Why Bush, Why???????

I was hoping to get all of the Bush despisers to talk amongst themselves and discuss why his policies are the way that they are, like I said before, I dont want to hear people exclaiming why they love him or how great he is, no amount of that will ever make me be persuaded to believe that he is a decent human being...

Yes. The best way to approach a topic of global importance is to find a bunch of people that believe the same as you and then have at it. Please, no opposing view points here. I don't want to see something through anyone else's eyes. Then things wouldn't be so cut-and-dried.
I want clarity of thought, not truth.

 

[nbcrusader]

OK

FACT: Iraq invaded another country.
FACT: They lost a war.
FACT: They agreed to a CEASE FIRE.
FACT: They violated it.
FACT: They continue to violate it.
FACT: We went to the UN.
FACT: Saudi Arabia and Egypt changed their tunes towards invasion after the Bush speech.
FACT: Inspectors are going to be "allowed" in.
FACT: The White House should react with guarded hope. We have heard Saddam's tune before.
FACT: Itaq is TOAST if Saddam does not follow through this time. The UN will take action.

Sounds like the policy is working to me.


Peace to all.

Dreadsox, please do not let facts get in the way of the Bush bashing.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

FACT: Itaq is TOAST if Saddam does not follow through this time.

I trust that when you make a statement like this, you realise it's not simply that "Iraq will be TOAST" it's "tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens will be brutally murdered." In all honesty, your statement seemed to show a complete lack of regard for the thousands of innocent lives which will be taken if the United States bombs Iraq.

Please, try putting yourself in the position of an Iraqi person - imagine how afraid you'd be if you heard that a country as militarily powerful as the United States was planning to bomb your country. Imagine if you remembered what that had been like back in 1991. Imagine how afraid you'd be, imagine how you'd want to protect your family but be unable to. Imagine being trapped there and not knowing if you'd still be alive tomorrow.

I know some people support bombing Iraq despite these things, but please at least show some understanding of the horrendous impact bombing will have on innocent Iraqi citizens, don't dehumanise them with statements like "Iraq will be toast."

(Sorry Dreadsox, I was replying to your statement to begin with, but I'm not actually directing all of this post at you specifically.)

 

[bono_luvva]

how can you say something anything like 'iraq will be toast'
haven't you thought of the thousands of people who have nothing to do with iraq apart from living in it (not as stupid as it sounds)......all these innocent people will die if 'iraq will be toast'...just think about it

 

[diamond]

Dreadsox, please do not let facts get in the way of the Bush bashing.

yeah Dread..you are sorta interrupting the loving spirit of ppl from the left in this thread

DB9

 

[hiphop]

yeah Dread..you are sorta interrupting the loving spirit of ppl from the left in this thread

DB9

Whats up with you dude?

I know we may have different political viewpoints, but your comments in this thread were reduced to pure cynicism.

No offense, but I think thats uncool, diamond. It neither fits your style nor your personality.

I am sure I got lots of more loving spirit than your idol Bush, and I don?t like when people joke me when I am, for one time, not showing it.

Ok, daddy?

 

[diamond]

No prob HipHop w us.
I do think its uncool to bash ANY Pres in office tho regardless of ANY party affiliation.
Ok?
No worries..


Peace-
Dave

 

[hiphop]

I do think its uncool to bash ANY Pres in office tho regardless of ANY party affiliation.

brother

Do you really think its uncool to bash any President in office? Why I ask myself. Several reasons possible, one of them that if you (I) were (was) in his (the Presidents) shoes, who knows what we would (have to) do (in order to stay alive and well).

I don?t think its particularly cool, but I think power should be controlled. W the President it can?t really be controlled, so at least some criticism is important - important for him, too (if he wasn?t the criminal he actually is - sorry to appear uncool now... thats life ).

 

[Dreadsox]

OK


FACT: Itaq is TOAST if Saddam does not follow through this time. The UN will take action.



Peace to all.

First...I should never type that early in the morning. Excuse the Ttaq and change it to Iraq.

2nd: Poor choice of words toast. It was insensative. I will now correct it.

Please change this fact to:

FACT The United Nations will be forced to take action and remove the curent regime.

That sounds so much better than toast.

 

[Dreadsox]

I trust that when you make a statement like this, you realise it's not simply that "Iraq will be TOAST" it's "tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens will be brutally murdered." In all honesty, your statement seemed to show a complete lack of regard for the thousands of innocent lives which will be taken if the United States bombs Iraq.

Yes, and I have corrected my toast comment. I disagree with the term murder. The correct terms are "casualty of war" and unfortunatley "collateral damage". Murder is what their leader has done to their own population. Please, do not call the men and women who serve this country by putting their lives on the line murderes.

Please, try putting yourself in the position of an Iraqi person - imagine how afraid you'd be if you heard that a country as militarily powerful as the United States was planning to bomb your country. Imagine if you remembered what that had been like back in 1991. Imagine how afraid you'd be, imagine how you'd want to protect your family but be unable to. Imagine being trapped there and not knowing if you'd still be alive tomorrow.

Having been a PROUD member of the United States Army in 1991 I understand everything you are saying. I remember how quickly they surrendered, to reporters and service people. They were terrified and beaten down. Unfortunately, Saddam is not going to line his troops up out in the open this time. They will be in the cities, next to schools, mosques, and hospitals and he will dare us to conduct another air campaign.

I know some people support bombing Iraq despite these things, but please at least show some understanding of the horrendous impact bombing will have on innocent Iraqi citizens, don't dehumanise them with statements like "Iraq will be toast."[/B]

Again, words were poor. I am sorry. Brace yourself because if this goes down it will be worse than Desert Storm. Unfortunatley, the world is faced with a difficult decision.

(Sorry Dreadsox, I was replying to your statement to begin with, but I'm not actually directing all of this post at you specifically.) [/B]

It's not personal. The facts are the facts. Debate is good in a democratic society.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia are suddenly in line with the Bush Administration and if the UN says go in and remove Saddam it will happen. Again, sorry about my poor word choice.

peace to all

 

[OzAurora]

OK

FACT: Iraq invaded another country.

Ok, time for some homework peoples, why dont you all try and find out exactly who it was that initially gave an unoficial allowance for Iraq to gain entry into Kuwait in order to trade their oil from a sea port in the late 80s???and where was this oil going to end up- gee I wonder????- sometimes you know, what you perceive to be 'facts' are in fact wrong, or rather they have been politicised and used as propaganda, now you can all flame me for this one, but hey the American media in all of its various genres has never been very good at giving an un-biased and correct acount of events- they generally serve up sugary and patriotic tripe in order to keep the spoon fed masses under the thumb whilst wearing their rose coloured glasses or should that be stars'n'stripes??????

 

[Dreadsox]

Ok, time for some homework peoples, why dont you all try and find out exactly who it was that initially gave an unoficial allowance for Iraq to gain entry into Kuwait in order to trade their oil from a sea port in the late 80s???

Please....enlighten us with your accurate sources. It does not change the fact that Iraq invaded another country.

Peace to ALL

 

[TylerDurden]

I don't think Bush is that bad. He's probably an alright guy. I think he's probably nice enough, pretty funny, dumb as a plank of wood.

Bush is only a worry because he isn't that smart. He's just a monkey puppet. It's Cheney and Rumsfeld who are the real worry. If I could give one bit of advice to Bush it would be 'more Powell, less the other two'. At least problems would be getting fixed rather then more fucked up.

The argument with Iraq has so many holes in it, on both sides. As it stands, where the game is right now, this hour, I don't think either the 'for' or 'against' can really claim to win any argument. It's a real mess. I think an unnecessary mess. Now the situation with the UN has gotten really complicated really quickly. It's going to be a really really big deal from here on in.

I have a list of about 50 questions I'd love a few people here to answer, but Im afraid of what the thread would turn into... it's actually not political, just more 'what now' questions. I think you can forget asking whether or not the US should attack Iraq, it's going to happen, it's more how, when, under what law, what next, what happens to the UN, what happens to the world...

Iraq may end up getting themselves blown off the map, but in the process they may make the US look really terrible and may spark the beginning of the end of the UN. The winner is..?