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Old 09-09-2007, 12:23 PM   #21
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Granted I try to pay attention to European politics but Norway just isn't usually in the picture


yes, but Norwegians think they know all about the US.

so you're just an ignorant American.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:27 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes, but Norwegians think they know all about the US.

so you're just an ignorant American.
Now you're just being unnecessarily hostile, for reasons I can't really understand, to be honest. Have you come across Norwegians who behave in this way or are you projecting?
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:41 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Irvine511
and yet, so many seem to think they know exactly what the US should do no matter what the issue and feel perfectly free to broadly criticize everything about a culture -- not to mention the monocausal explanations they come up with in order to explain a complex foreign policy -- they only understand from the movies and perhaps a trip to Manhattan.

so it's good to see us resisting the urge to do the same to other countries.
I think that's nonsense.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:47 PM   #24
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Originally posted by anitram
Now you're just being unnecessarily hostile, for reasons I can't really understand, to be honest. Have you come across Norwegians who behave in this way or are you projecting?
If I had to venture a guess, it's a reaction against all the global "anti-Americanism" out there, and all the stereotypes of Americans being "insular" and flat-out "stupid" of the world around them.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that a lot of nations learn about the United States and learn English in school...then turn around and see that American students learn nothing about "them."

On the other hand, what the rest of the world doesn't understand is that we'd have to study the intricate details of over 170 countries to learn about "them." It ends up not being a fair match.

As a matter of circumstance, I happen to know a fair amount of both Canadian and U.S. politics. And if I were so motivated, I could probably do the research necessary to get reasonably fluent with Norwegian history and politics. I already familiar with Norway's "language politics" of the last century up to today, for instance, as a result of Norway trying to develop a written-word identity separate from their former Danish masters. Yet that idealistic quest is turning out to be more challenging than originally conceived in the late 19th century.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:51 PM   #25
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes, but Norwegians think they know all about the US.

so you're just an ignorant American.
That's just as much a generalisation as Americans being ignorant.

I think everyone is guilty of forming opinions about things they really don't know enough about, like us non-US citizens on American politics or American culture. But it's not true to say "Norwegians think they know all about the US". Sure, there are some who think so, as there are some Germans, Brits, French or whoever. But the majority wouldn't discuss American domestic politics in the way you picture it.

And Americans are as guilty of doing so about us. Just think how France and Germany got critizised, and even attacked, for not participating on the invasion in Iraq. It was not only Rumsfeld or Bush who talked shit about us, you would hear hostilities like these also from normal citizens.

We get to hear a lot about American politics in general, and I'm sure much of it gets simplified to a degree you can't even laugh about, but this being the only source some people draw a picture and live with that.
Of course that's wrong, but it's also wrong to speak in such generalisations about it.

Or did you encounter so many Norwegians who started to lecture you?
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #26
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Originally posted by melon

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that a lot of nations learn about the United States and learn English in school...then turn around and see that American students learn nothing about "them."

On the other hand, what the rest of the world doesn't understand is that we'd have to study the intricate details of over 170 countries to learn about "them." It ends up not being a fair match.



this is exactly right.
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:58 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega

But it's not true to say "Norwegians think they know all about the US". Sure, there are some who think so, as there are some Germans, Brits, French or whoever. But the majority wouldn't discuss American domestic politics in the way you picture it.



i was making an ironic point, nothing against Norwegians in particular.



[q]And Americans are as guilty of doing so about us. Just think how France and Germany got critizised, and even attacked, for not participating on the invasion in Iraq. It was not only Rumsfeld or Bush who talked shit about us, you would hear hostilities like these also from normal citizens.[/q]

and those normal citizens were idiots and i called them as such in here.



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Or did you encounter so many Norwegians who started to lecture you?
i have gotten ample elections from Europeans. ample.

and all i'm trying to say is that it's all idiocy.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:00 PM   #28
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Okay...so I think I knew enough about Norwegian politics to answer this survey (although I, admittedly, answered in the "neutral" slot for a few of the questions):

The Liberal Party: One of Norway's more right-leaning "center" parties that supports tax relief but also a strong public sector, liberalized immigration and environmental protection measures.

49 % Liberal Party
48 % The Labour Party
36 % The Socialist Left Party
35 % The Progress Party
33 % The Conservative Party
25 % The Christian Democrats
24 % The Reds
20 % The Center Party

I guess that that sounds about right?
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:00 PM   #29
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I would venture a guess though that most Americans (present company excluded, although I would include myself) do not know as much about ONE other country as a tremendous amount of nonAmericans know about us.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:06 PM   #30
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Lecturing is idiotic.

However, people can have educated views about your foreign policy which very much affect them. For example, the effects of NAFTA (95% of whose benefits only benefit the USA) on Canada, the provisions regarding Canadian oil production (to Canada's detriment, and America's benefit...not an uncommon thread, mind you), the illegal softwood lumber levies applied by the US government, the drawdown from Afghanistan which resulted in Canadian troops sustaining the greatest losses, due largely to an inadequate troop number when Bush decided to have fun in Iraq instead, the influence of Falwell et al. in Canadian politics during the gay marriage debate, the continued meddling regarding marijuana laws, the transportation of handguns from the US border states which have pathetic gun control laws, and so on. Likewise, your elections matter, because the party in power is going to largely determine trade policy, tax treaties, joint economic ventures and increasingly things like defence. Maybe you are particularly irked by Europeans for some reason, but the fact remains that just about EVERY single one aspect of your foreign policy affects Canada, for better of for worse. And no, it's not idiocy to advocate for your own best interests where that is concerned.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:09 PM   #31
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I would venture a guess though that most Americans (present company excluded, although I would include myself) do not know as much about ONE other country as a tremendous amount of nonAmericans know about us.


well, i'd argue that i know as much about the UK as most people in the UK know about the US, and i'd also point out the fact that, at least in my public high school, i had two full years of European history, and one year of American history. why? because when you're talking about history, there's way, way more of it in Europe that has affected how the modern world works. i would absolutely say that European history is more "important" to understanding how the globe works than, say, America's relatively recent history.

this applies to modern culture/politics today. the US is ascendent. it's actions reverberate throughout the world. it's actors and actresses and rock stars prompt interest in American culture -- and i'd say that this applies to the UK as well as it's exported popular culture is enormously influential (the beatles? harry potter?) an interest in countries beyond those that do not directly affect your life is a botique interest born out of intellectual curiosity than self-interest.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:10 PM   #32
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I would venture a guess though that most Americans (present company excluded, although I would include myself) do not know as much about ONE other country as a tremendous amount of nonAmericans know about us.
Like melon said, it's not a fair and even match. The whole world is fascinated with America so I'm not at all surprised that the rest of the world knows as much or more than the average American. In return, how is it fair to expect Americans to know everything about every country? LOL

But there is a lot of ignorance about the world here. I think it stems from the fact that most people are raised in a "America is the world" kinda mentality. Just take baseball for instance. World Series?
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:10 PM   #33
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Originally posted by melon
Okay...so I think I knew enough about Norwegian politics to answer this survey (although I, admittedly, answered in the "neutral" slot for a few of the questions):

The Liberal Party: One of Norway's more right-leaning "center" parties that supports tax relief but also a strong public sector, liberalized immigration and environmental protection measures.
My results are almost identical to yours. I'm interested in the question regarding whether the state should fund artificial insemination (or IVF I suppose) for lesbian couples. Does anyone know whether state funding is available for heterosexual couples in this regard? Because that would largely affect my answer.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



i was making an ironic point, nothing against Norwegians in particular.



[q]And Americans are as guilty of doing so about us. Just think how France and Germany got critizised, and even attacked, for not participating on the invasion in Iraq. It was not only Rumsfeld or Bush who talked shit about us, you would hear hostilities like these also from normal citizens.[/q]

and those normal citizens were idiots and i called them as such in here.





i have gotten ample elections from Europeans. ample.

and all i'm trying to say is that it's all idiocy.
Yes, I know people who are that way myself. In general they are pretty left in their political view, and most I've met live in a world of ideology and out-of-this-world views I don't agree with either.

I think you will find those people everywhere, and unfortunately many of them are just seeking for opportunities to start a discussion.
America is in this unique position of being looked at by the world, influencing much of what's going on in other countries. Thus, many people feel qualified to give their opinion on what's going on in the US and some even have this sense of know-all superiority.

I also had the impression, the questionnaire being about Norway, that this thread wasn't meant to be too serious, but it was nice to see which questions are of concern in Norway. I love that country, but you hear so little about it.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:15 PM   #35
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Originally posted by anitram
Lecturing is idiotic.

However, people can have educated views about your foreign policy which very much affect them. ... And no, it's not idiocy to advocate for your own best interests where that is concerned.


i agree.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:15 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Irvine511




well, i'd argue that i know as much about the UK as most people in the UK know about the US, and i'd also point out the fact that, at least in my public high school, i had two full years of European history, and one year of American history. why? because when you're talking about history, there's way, way more of it in Europe that has affected how the modern world works. i would absolutely say that European history is more "important" to understanding how the globe works than, say, America's relatively recent history.
I'd already excluded you from not knowing about other countries.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:16 PM   #37
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega

America is in this unique position of being looked at by the world, influencing much of what's going on in other countries. Thus, many people feel qualified to give their opinion on what's going on in the US and some even have this sense of know-all superiority.


this is all i'm trying to say.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:17 PM   #38
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Originally posted by BonosSaint


I'd already excluded you from not knowing about other countries.


oh, i know -- was just using your post as a jumping off point.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:17 PM   #39
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:18 PM   #40
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so, yeah, back to Norwegian politics ...
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