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Old 12-08-2004, 08:26 PM   #1
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Where Does Christmas Belong?

Source: America Online http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...08132009990010

The phrase "Merry Christmas" removed from a song in public schools. Christmas carols banned at a high school event. A religious-themed float denied entry in a local parade. The debate over where Christmas belongs is erupting across the country. Where do you stand on the issue?


Source: America Online Voting Poll

Are you OK with Christmas-themed retail displays?
Yes 96%
No 4%

Are you OK with Christmas music in public school?
Yes 95%
No 5%

Are you OK with Christmas displays in a local parade?
Yes 97%
No 3%


Sources: ABC News, The New York Times


"We just wanted to show them the love of God and what Christmas is all about." -- Laverne Gillespie, who protested the secular nature of Denver's holiday parade

"Holiday celebrations where Christian music is being sung make people feel different. And because it is such a majority, it makes the minority feel uncomfortable." -- Mark Brownstein, a parent in a town whose high school forbade a school band to play Christmas songs

"I think that people have become a little too dogmatic in their beliefs on either side." -- Eric Chabrow, a Jewish father who says his son should be able to play Christmas songs in the high school band
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:30 PM   #2
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If the majority of people don't care if Christmas music is played in public schools, then why does it seem like such a big shit is made about it?
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:40 PM   #3
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Well we've debated this one and to me it comes down to the birth of Jesus vs. Santa Claus.

Birth of Jesus should be celebrated in your home, church, any private sector.

Santa Claus...I really don't care where Santa is; play him in the school, the Gap, the gas station, I really don't care.

Christmas is already commercialized beyond meaning. But why insist on making Muslim, Jewish, etc listen to or sing "birth of Jesus" types of songs.

Come on be respectful! This is America, we call ourselves the melting pot, let's act like it.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:42 PM   #4
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One does have to wonder.

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1286465/posts

ACLU and holiday spirit
Washington Times ^ | 11/23/04 | Burt Prelutsky

Posted on 11/22/2004 10:06:21 PM PST by kattracks

I am not a religious man. I'm neither proud of that nor ashamed. I merely state that fact to establish where I'm coming from. I have friends who are believers and friends who are not. Where religion is concerned, I believe in live and let live. I only wish that the American Civil Liberties Union shared that attitude. I don't like to describe myself as an agnostic or an atheist because I don't care to align myself with the people whose own religion consists of a profound antipathy to everybody else's.

Having said all that, I wish to announce that I despise the ACLU for its relentless attacks on Christianity and Judaism. It's bad enough that they will wage battle on behalf of anybusybody looking to banish Christmas and Hanukkah symbols from public places, including one's own front yard. However, these very same lawyers will eagerly go to the mat to safeguard a Muslim's right to wear a disguise on her driver's license, a Navajo's right to smoke peyote, and a cultist's right to ritualistically slaughter small animals.

Because they are so out of step with the majority, they can rarely have their way via a democratic ballot. There are, in fact, only two means by which they ever have their way. The first is by getting liberal judges to set aside election results, as they have done over such issues as capital punishment, illegal immigration and affirmative action. The second way is by intimidating those people — be they individuals, cities or organizations — that lack the backbone or thefinancial wherewithal to defend themselves against the ACLU's mob of shysters.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:46 PM   #5
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People are free to celebrate Christmas any way they want, the holiday is so exciting, and so much fun to celebrate. While the voting poll did not specify what kinds of "Christmas songs" they were referring to, it got a landslide majority vote. To me, it seems like some of these people want me sued if I wish someone a "Merry Christmas" at work.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:50 PM   #6
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Yes I'll be the fist to admit the ACLU goes to extremes.

The problem is these groups started with good intentions and then they got overzealous.

But let's differenciate between the ACLU, the "PC movement" and common everyday tolerance and manners.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
To me, it seems like some of these people want me sued if I wish someone a "Merry Christmas" at work.
Well if you happen to wish it to a Jewish person than you are being insensitive. But no you shouldn't get sued over it.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes I'll be the fist to admit the ACLU goes to extremes.
I'm very glad you admit to that.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well if you happen to wish it to a Jewish person than you are being insensitive. But no you shouldn't get sued over it.
I do keep this in mind, and wish them a happy holiday instead.
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:58 PM   #10
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Merry CHRISTmas everyone !
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:00 PM   #11
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Originally posted by cardosino
Merry CHRISTmas everyone !
Oh look someone thinks they're funny...
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:01 PM   #12
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Happy New Year... I hope I'm still allowed to wish that.
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:10 PM   #13
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Apparently, an army of 700 lawyers are ready to fight the lawsuits.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41610

And just to balance it all out, here's this link too.

http://www.aclu-em.org/newsletter/19...tmasspirit.htm
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Oh look someone thinks they're funny...
God bless you, I forgive you.
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Old 12-08-2004, 10:26 PM   #15
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Allow me to attempt making this thread any more ridiculous...
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Old 12-09-2004, 04:51 AM   #16
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Here's my opinion on the matter- Christmas is pointless if there is no Jesus involved. I mean, what else are we celebrating (technically). ANyway, if schools want to avoid any controversy, they should just eliminate any sort of holiday reference and stop pretending that we are celebrating winter or something like that. Now kids sing about snow and sleigh rides and we all know how many times those events happen in Southern Cal or North Texas! I feel that if i were to go to a predominantly Muslim country where Ramadan is a huge part of their life, I would not want them to worry about what I feel. I mean, I would be the minority and I would not think they are trampling on my rights. WHy force the huge majority of Muslims to stop having public demonstrations of Ramadan (or even the daily call to prayer) for me. Very selfish I think, and thin skinned.
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Christmas is already commercialized beyond meaning. But why insist on making Muslim, Jewish, etc listen to or sing "birth of Jesus" types of songs.
No one is forcing anyone to sing anything. What's wrong with adding Hannakuh decorations and traditions too?

Quote:
Come on be respectful! This is America, we call ourselves the melting pot, let's act like it.
That's not much of a melt when you have 96% suffering for what 4% complain about. I say if that few people are offended, let them leave the room.

In the school I went to, everyone was encouraged to share their religious traditions with the class. It was very informative and spread understanding and acceptance. Hiding from it only makes it look like something bad. Interestingly enough, it was the Jehovah's Witnesses who were most offended by any mention of holiday celebration, even secular ones, and had to be sent out of the room.
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:24 AM   #18
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The extremely small yet vocal minority that claims wishes of Merry Christmas to be insensitive has taken its toll.

We now get groups like Save Merry Christmas
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:47 AM   #19
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These rules would have eliminated just about every float in the Christmas parade I was in last week. Not our float--it looked like a little castle--but just about all of the others.
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:01 AM   #20
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hasn't this issue already been argued to death in FYM?

i think society has pretty much agreed that jesus isn't okay in public schools, but at home and in your yard, you can erect shrines to zeus for all anyone else cares.
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