Where Does Christmas Belong?

[Macfistowannabe]

for myself, christmas is a celebration of commercialism.

go commercialism!

Hey, however you want to celebrate it is cool with me.

 

[MadelynIris]

Santa Claus...I really don't care where Santa is; play him in the school, the Gap, the gas station, I really don't care

I find Santa Claus being pushed down my kids throat offensive.

 

[nbcrusader]

i think society has pretty much agreed that jesus isn't okay in public schools, but at home and in your yard, you can erect shrines to zeus for all anyone else cares.

If this statement was true, we wouldn't be discussing it.

There is a difference between teaching Jesus and mentioning Jesus.

 

[Irvine511]

If this statement was true, we wouldn't be discussing it.

There is a difference between teaching Jesus and mentioning Jesus.

yes, exactly. jesus belongs in history classes as a historical figure, he does not belong coming out of the mouths of 4th graders in a specifically worshipful context ("christ the savior is born" "oh come let us adore him christ the lord") during a mandatory holiday concert.

 

[nbcrusader]

he does not belong coming out of the mouths of 4th graders in a specifically worshipful context ("christ the savior is born" "oh come let us adore him christ the lord") during a mandatory holiday concert.

Singing does not equal worship. It is still subject to dispute and not societal agreement.

 

[cardosino]

That really wasn't irony. Unless you are taking English lessons from Ms. Alanis Morrsiette...

You guys really need some vocab lessons.

 

[Irvine511]

You guys really need some vocab lessons.

i·ro·ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
Dramatic irony.
Socratic irony.

sar·casm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (särkzm)
n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm.


i'm also a dorky SAT tutor. i know my vocab.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Thanks Irv, your "dorky" vocabulary is appreciated whenever necessary.

 

[nbcrusader]

I got this email today:

A woman was out Christmas shopping with her two children. After many hours of looking at row after row of toys and everything else imaginable; and after hours of hearing both her children asking for everything they saw on those many shelves, she finally made it to the elevator with her two kids.

She was feeling what so many of us feel during the holiday season time of the year. Overwhelming pressure to go to every party, every housewarming, taste all the holiday food and treats, getting that perfect gift for every single person on our shopping list, making sure we don't forget anyone on our card list, and the pressure of making sure we respond to everyone who sent us a card.

Finally the elevator doors opened and there was already a crowd in the car. She pushed her way into the car and dragged her two kids in with her and all the bags of stuff. When the doors closed she couldn't take it anymore and stated, "Whoever started this whole Christmas thing should be found, strung up and shot."

From the back of the car, everyone heard a quiet calm voice respond, "Don't worry, we already crucified Him." For the rest of the trip down the elevator it was so quiet you could have heard a pin drop.

Don't forget this year to keep the One who started this whole Christmas thing in your every thought, deed, purchase, and word. If we all did it, just think of how different this whole world would be.

 

[BVS]

WARNING MAY CONTAIN LANGUAGE NOT SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN.

I find Santa Claus being pushed down my kids throat offensive.

Then tell them the truth, that he doesn't exist.

 

[Irvine511]

Then tell them the truth, that he doesn't exist.

WHAT!?!?!?!

 

[BVS]

You guys really need some vocab lessons.

Now, you see that's ironic. The person who didn't know what irony was telling me I need vocabulary lessons. Now you're getting the hang of it.

 

[BVS]

WHAT!?!?!?!

Sorry I should have placed a warning on my post...I go back edit it if I can.

 

[Irvine511]

Sorry I should have placed a warning on my post...I go back edit it if I can.

too late. i've already converted to Judaism. at least they won't lie to me about fat men who break into my house late at night.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Then tell them the truth, that he doesn't exist.

I can prove he does!

 

[angel_of_L.A.]

Then tell them the truth, that he doesn't exist.

Actually the story of Santa Claus is based on the life of a real person, a saint named Saint Nicholas. The Dutch veneration of 'Sinter Klaus' was brought to North America with the Dutch settlers and eventually became the story of Santa Claus that everyone knows.

Saint Nicholas was the bishop of a city named Myra in Turkey in the early part of the fourth century. His feast day is December 6th because he died on December 6 or 7 in the middle of the fourth century. Nicholas was first a monk in the monastery of Holy Zion near Myra. Eventually he was made Abbot by the Archbishop, its founder. When the See of Myra, the capital of Lycia, fell vacant, St. Nicholas was appointed its Archbishop. It is said that he suffered for the Faith under Diocletian, and that he was present at the Council of Nice as an opponent of Arianism. His death occurred at Myra, in the year 342.

The most famous story told about St. Nicholas has to do with three young sisters who were very poor. Their parents were so poor that they did not have enough money for the daughters to get married. Every young girl needed money to pay for the wedding and to set up house for themselves. Nicholas heard about this family and wanted to help them, but he did not want anyone to know that he was the one who was helping them.

The story is told in a few different ways. In one version, he climbed up on their roof three nights in a row and threw gold coins down their chimney so that they would land in the girls' stockings, which had been hung by the fire to dry. After two of his daughters had been able to marry because of the money mysteriously appearing in their stockings, the father was determined to find out who was helping them, so he hid behind the chimney the next night. Along came Bishop Nicholas with another bag of money.

When he was discovered, he asked the father not to tell anyone else, but the father wanted everyone to know what a good and generous man the Bishop Nicholas was, so he told everyone he knew. That is how we have the story and the tradition of stocking full of gifts today.

The characteristic virtue of St. Nicholas appears to have been his love and charity for the poor. Because of this and of the many legends of his works, St. Nicholas is regarded as the special patron of children. The Emperor Justinian built a church in his honor at Constantinople in the suburb of Blacharnae, about the year 340.

He has always been honored with great veneration in the Latin and Greek Churches. The Russian Church seems to honor him more than any other saint after the Apostles.

As for why he wears the red Santa suit in our American drawings, well that's the beauty of legends and cultural folklore. It's pervasive and diverse. In anycase, the spirit of Christmas is goodwill and generosity towards your fellow man (and women) and those things transcend all cultural barriers.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

LOL... Santa Claus does/ did EXIST!!!

YAY!!!

Merry Christmas!

 

[DaveC]

As for why he wears the red Santa suit in our American drawings, well that's the beauty of legends and cultural folklore.

No, that's the beauty of Coca-Cola advertising.

 

[annj]

I find it ironic that people worry about if Jesus should be in the christmas celebration or not, when in fact it is nothing to do with him, he wasn't even born on December the 25th, in fact it seems October was more likely his date of birth and the christmas festival has more to do with the the pagan roman festival to saturnilia, the sun god and the idea it bring Jesus into it didn't happen till the fourth century when the Catholic church were trying to christianize pagan celebrations,

So I don't think Jesus himself would want to be included in a celebration, that does not even get his birth date right, but also includes traditions that give honour to some pagan roman God

I mean it would be like having a birthday party with every one supposedly celebrating your birthday only you weren't born on that day at all but its actually celebrating and honouring traditions of the people who were partly responsible for helping put you to death, if it was you, would you find it acceptable and happy to go along with it?

So I guess all those other christmas festivities are fine without having Jesus in it, because he was never really a part of it and should have never been included in it in the first place

 

[pax]

But does it really matter *when* we celebrate the birth of Jesus, so long as we actually do it? I mean, it seems to me that any guesses on when Jesus was born are just that--guesses. So it has to be sometime, and it may as well be December 25.

 

[MadelynIris]

Well we certainly shouldn't be celebrating a 4th century Catholic Bishop's life in school.

Ban Santa I say.

 

[annj]

But does it really matter *when* we celebrate the birth of Jesus, so long as we actually do it? I mean, it seems to me that any guesses on when Jesus was born are just that--guesses. So it has to be sometime, and it may as well be December 25.

I recognise that Jesus Birth was a signifigant event, but the actual christmas celebrations that go with it are pagan in nature
the evergreen trees, holly and the ivy even the exchanging of gifts and partying all go back to things carried out by the way romans celebrated the winter solstice, which took place on december 25th you can find this info in any good Encyclopædia,

so the question rises are we celebrating Jesus Birth or actually this old winter roman festival? And though Jesus birth is mentioned in the bible there is nowhere that gives instructions or a commandment how to celebrate his birth by himself or his early followers.

The early church were attempting to christianze pagan celebrations, but I think along the way what happened was it turned out that they just paganized christianity with man made customs, that the real christian message got lost

I agree in the spirit that we should show love and consideration and be kind to our fellow man, even giving gifts and presents and sharing good times with our family and friends and consider those less well of than ourselves.. and I know a lot of people believe this is what the christmas Nativity represents but I think we should do that all year round if possible and not one day a year

 

[verte76]

Specifically, December 25 was the date that members of a mystery religion devoted to the Persian Sun God, Mithras, observed as Natalis Sol Invictus, or The Birth of the Invincible Sun. This cult would have been more popular if it had accepted women, but it only accepted men. It was supposed to be celebrated on the winter solstice, but the Romans had miscalculated the solstice slightly and placed it on the 25th of December when it's actually closer to the 21st. It was particularly popular among soldiers. The purpose of adopting a pagan holiday for use in the Church made it easier for new converts to practice their new religion. That was the argument used for taking pagan practices and incorporating them into Christian practice. I understand why some people might not like it that it was originally a pagan practice but the adopted festivals and activities were indeed incorporated into the Church and given Christian themes. There's nothing pagan about celebrating the birth of Christ, it's just that they decided to do it the same day the Romans celebrated Natalis Sol Invictus.

 

[U2Kitten]

WARNING MAY CONTAIN LANGUAGE NOT SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN.
Then tell them the truth, that he doesn't exist.

Please don't, it's kids whose parents deny them Santa who get bitter and spread the news to the entire first grade, making everyone cry (it happened to me, happened to my daughter too)

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Please don't, it's kids whose parents deny them Santa who get bitter and spread the news to the entire first grade, making everyone cry (it happened to me, happened to my daughter too)

First grade is a little young for that. I would hope around fourth grade, most kids know it's just to get people excited to celebrate and shop.

 

[U2Kitten]

First grade is a little young for that. I would hope around fourth grade, most kids know it's just to get people excited to celebrate and shop.

Even when I was a kid, everyone had figured it out by about 8, and it seems to be getting earlier all the time. Even though the girl said that, I stil held out hope until I found my "Santa" toys under my big brother's bed- then I got this sick feeling in my stomach, oh no, she was right Of course, I didn't tell my parents I knew, I was afraid if they knew I no longer believed I wouldn't get so many gifts

 

[Macfistowannabe]

My parents told me at maybe 3rd or 4th grade. I guess it was my time, and they knew when I was old enough to handle it. At first, I didn't know how to react. Then later, I wondered who all the Santas were in real life. I still do.

It's a shame that some kids spoil all the fun for everyone though. It really is.

 

[U2Kitten]

In my family, no one ever 'told' anyone, you just reached a point where you knew, and everyone knew you knew. Santa brought us presents until we were 12, and stuffed our stockings until the day we left home


I think it's just the kids whose parents get holier than thou about Santa being commercial and not playing that game who get bitter and want to spoil other kids' fun. I lived next door to a Jewish family, and their oldest son was one of my best childhood playmates. He had to have known there was no Santa, but he never told me Also, my older brother and sister, mean as they were to me in other ways, never blabbed either I say let them enjoy the magic as long as they can.

 

[annj]

well you trust your parents when you are young and believe everything they tell you then you find out they have been lying all along I can understand being bitter about it.. I know I felt a real fool.. it kind of shakes you, but I guess you get over it,

So christmas is one big lie no real santa, and it isn't the date of Jesus Birth... but so what ...people can still make plenty of money out of it and its a good excuse to party, I guess thats the main thing for most people So I guess christmas really is all about commeralism *shrugs*

 

[U2Kitten]

I've known people who get on the "Santa is lying to your kids" kick. But I don't look at it as a lie, but a game, a game my parents loved me enough to play along with, giving someone else the credit for all the stuff their money bought. Same with Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.