When African/Jamacian Americans use the word "******"

[Kiki]

Ok not only African and Jamacian Americans, but people who are......um......negros(I'm trying to find a way to say this and not offend anyone), how do you feel though when they use the word "******"?

back in May I was visiting my boyfriend in Texas and his 13 year old brother was telling us that some kids from school were calling him "******", yet he's Mexican American and the four other guys he hangs out with at school are caucasion. He said that this group of African American boys were calling them by that name and saying they were racist because they didnt have "any blacks in your group". I asked my bf's brother if he asked the guys to hang out with them and he said yah, but the guys laughed at them and kept on calling them that. He said when he tried to say, "Come on, dont call me ******...I dont like that", they jumped all over him for using the word.

So he faced us with the question of why is it acceptable for Negros to use the word to each other and not think of it as bad? If you're going to say its offensive, which I agree the word is horrible and should not be used, then dont go around calling each other that and letting younger kids learn that too.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I think regardless of people's opinion on the word '******' most people think that 'negro' is an offensive word. Perhaps it's better to talk about Black people rather than 'negros'.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

this is just a sign of pure ignorance and lack of respect for african americans. it is also a sign of immaturity.

 

[Kiki]

ok I apologize, I didnt realize that the word "Negro" was offensive to. I'm caucasion and yet people call me white all the time...ok no big deal, but I've heard people get offensive when someone calls them black too....so what is the politically correct term? Because not everyone is African America or Jamacian...but you're right, its a sign of ignorance.

 

[nbcrusader]

So he faced us with the question of why is it acceptable for Negros to use the word to each other and not think of it as bad? If you're going to say its offensive, which I agree the word is horrible and should not be used, then dont go around calling each other that and letting younger kids learn that too.

Why? Racial politics. Presumed intent.

Given the general response to "the word", it is better left out of the vocabulary.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

"People call me white all the time."

Then refer to Black people as Black, don't use offensive language like the words you used in your first post.

 

[BVS]

Why? Racial politics. Presumed intent.

Given the general response to "the word", it is better left out of the vocabulary.

I agree.

most people think that 'negro' is an offensive word.

Is this true? I don't use the word because it sounds dated, but why then do we still have 'The United Negro College Fund'?

The lines of political correctness are wearing thin these days...

People call me white all the time.

They just call me pale.

 

[bonoman]

'Negro' is not an offensive word!

I have heard so many people use that word. Especailly on Tv, where they MAKE sure they are being politically correct.

 

[verte76]

A little history is in order here. Here in Birmingham, which was a real battleground in the civil rights moverment in the '60's it was perfectly acceptable and respectful to call African-Americans "Negroes". When we had our demonstrations and Ku Klux Klan atrocities and such "******" was a bad word; "negro" was not. It was only later that this word fell into (relative) disrepute and the word "black" was preferable. So that's why some older civil rights groups actually have the word "negro" in their names and such. I think because of the similarity in sound of "******" and "negro" the word "negro" is a bit emotional. Diane McWhorter, in her book about the civil rights movement in Birmingham "Carry Me Home" (read it, it's great) uses the word "Negro" but feels obligated to explain that it was perfectly respectful and proper in the '60's here. I agree with nbcrusader about the word "******". It's never acceptable.

 

[BAW]

To me, negro is a dated, old fashioned word along the same lines as "colored." Its something my grandparents still use but a word I personally don't like. I understand that its still used among older generations but I don't care to use it. It brings to mind ugly images.

The N word is offensive and I can't think of any situation where it would be acceptable.

 

[melon]

Oh God...are we still in the 1920s?

"Negro" is very much an offensive word; call any black person that word and you will get your ass kicked. The "United Negro College Fund" is just as much a traditional anachronism as the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). These words were marginally acceptable when these groups were founded (UNCF: 1943; NAACP: 1909). Out of tradition, I'm sure, they haven't changed their names.

Unless you really want to sound like a bigot (and this doesn't mean you are), refer to them as blacks or "African-Americans," although, lately, "black" has become more fashionable to refer to non-African black people.

It may not be rational, but, guess what? Life was never rational to begin with.

Melon

 

[deep]

Re: Re: When African/Jamacian Americans use the word "******"

Presumed intent.

Given the general response to "the word", it is better left out of the vocabulary.

This is correct..

Chris Rock can use the n-word because his presumed intent is humor not racism.

So many questions in here deal empathy or respecting boundaries. I can not understand why any white person would want to use a word that might offend someone.

 

[melon]

Re: Re: Re: When African/Jamacian Americans use the word "******"

I can not understand why any white person would want to use a word that might offend someone.

Because that would require T-H-I-N-K-I-N-G.

Argh...

Melon

 

[U2Bama]

But what about the issue of Kiki's boyfriend's younger brother, who happens to be Mexican-American, and his friends, who happen to be caucasion, being called (n-word) by a group of African-Americans? Is THAT acceptable? Is it acceptable for African-American school kids to call non-African-American school kids (n-words), outside of a Chris Rock routine, which this obviously wasn't?

~U2Alabama

 

[Dreadsox]

This made me think of my youth listening to Eddie Murphy. He dropped the "n" word quite often.

It is a difficult topic. As a teacher, it can be a touchy topic, especially when reading books about Harriet Tubman, Malcom X, or even fictionalized books about the South like Mississippi Bridge or Sounder. WE also address the word Negro as well and the fact that it is not appropriate in todays age, nor is colored. Very dated, and as someone here mentioned

I try and teach the history behind the word. We spend a lot of time discussing the fact that it is inapropriate to use.

I am not sure about the cultural things going on with what was described above.

 

[deep]

So he faced us with the question of why is it acceptable for Negros to use the word to each other and not think of it as bad? If you're going to say its offensive, which I agree the word is horrible and should not be used, then dont go around calling each other that and letting younger kids learn that too.

here was her question, I gave my thoughts.

back in May I was visiting my boyfriend in Texas and his 13 year old brother was telling us that some kids from school were calling him "******", yet he's Mexican American and the four other guys he hangs out with at school are caucasion. He said that this group of African American boys were calling them by that name and saying they were racist because they didnt have "any blacks in your group". I asked my bf's brother if he asked the guys to hang out with them and he said yah, but the guys laughed at them and kept on calling them that. He said when he tried to say, "Come on, dont call me ******...I dont like that", they jumped all over him for using the word.

As for this behavior it is wrong.

I went to an integrated school and was intimidated by some minority kids. That among other things caused me to have wrong attitudes about race. I stayed clear of them as much as possible. I got older I learned how to interact with people as individuals and not classify them. The problems seemed to go away.

 

[verte76]

To me, negro is a dated, old fashioned word along the same lines as "colored." Its something my grandparents still use but a word I personally don't like. I understand that its still used among older generations but I don't care to use it. It brings to mind ugly images.

The N word is offensive and I can't think of any situation where it would be acceptable.

That's right, some of these words used to be perfectly "respectful" and not offensive. Times change, the meaning of words change. If I used the word "negro" in Birmingham now I'd get my ass kicked. Likewise the word "colored". They're pretty ugly now.

 

[Kiki]

To FizzingWhizzbees and Bonoman

I had no intention at all to offend anyone and further more I did apologize about using the word Negro and not knowing anyone took offense to it. I assumed it was more politicaly correct to use that than say a bunch of black people. That and the reason that people would jump all over someone for calling them African Americans when they can be from several other regions, was the only reason that I used the word.

Further more, get past that. I was asking something totally different and you failed to see that.

 

[sue4u2]

I just went through a heated discussion about this last week. Being from the South myself, I cannot even spell it without cringing. It has and is still used 99.9 percent of the time as as derogatory slur towards a race and yes, by that same race. Even when it's used by a black person it's used in a derogatory manner. In most cases. It's a matter of education, and what is being taught by so called adults to children and their childrens, children. It has to stop. It's a horrible stain on the history of our country. Even in the art or music world, it makes me shudder. It should never be used or portrayed as a term of endearment, or funny in any respect. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to speak and I like to laugh as well as the next person, but not at the very word that has caused so much hate and pain in so many decades of our history. I don't care who says it - I am sick of hearing it, for Heaven's sake.

 

[Kiki]

It should never be used or portrayed as a term of endearment, or funny in any respect. I don't care who says it - I am sick of hearing it, for Heaven's sake.

EXACTLY my point from the very beginning.

Thank you SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Atticus Finch]

no comment.

Atticus

 

[maude]

Kiki obviously did not realize that using the term "negro" was offensive and it seemed rather evident to me that she was genuinely trying to understand and learn. A simple reply that "negro" wasn't the best terminology to use and suggesting more politically correct terms and leaving it at that was all that was required. There was no need to make her feel like a racist pig. Honestly, some of the reactions to her post are the reason so many people do remain ignorant of other cultures and races. So many people are afraid to ask genuine questions for fear that they'll offend or upset someone.

 

[U2NZ]

I think that if you use a word intending to offend somebody, then it's wrong. Kiki wasn't intending on offending.
Here in New Zealand, the polynesian people, or Maori's, call us whites "Pakiha". This mean "white pig" . Most Maori call us that...and it's a name that everybody uses without any thought into it, or mearly most people do not know what "Pakiha" actually means...I don't know how this fits into your original post Kiki, sorry.
Stop trying to make Kiki look guilty...It's just like me saying to a non white:
"If you call me:
1) White
2) Caucasion
3) Albino
4) Pakiha
5) or any other name
then I'll find out where you park your car!!! "

 

[sue4u2]

Speaking for myself only, I in no way felt that Kiki's question was racist. I took it as a sincere question of how one should or would have reacted to a controversial subject. I think it should be discussed not ranted about. and I also see your point about persons taking it the wrong way. It happens all to frequently. Still should be discussed however. There are alot of people who still use these words and justify it by saying, I don't mean all Black persons just the one's who act like.. (the word I no longer say or spell) I'm not being politically correct either, I just hate the word.

 

[Anthony]

Look, on such a sensitive subject, I know it is not considered 'fashionable' to defend offensive words, but one has to consider many factors before getting all 'offended' on such a particular topic, try not to be so thin-skinned.

It is immediately obvious to anyone that the inquiry was made out of genuine ignorance, and whats more, curiosity over the subject - ie; they wanted to know. What isn't needed, therefore, is for everyone to start flaming each other over a word that was used admittedly negligently. What everyone has to understand is that although this is one place where we all meet and discuss certain topics, we do not come from the same place. One can act exasperated with apparent ignorance, but the fact remains, trends do have an influence with words; what is offensive one minute is not offensive the next and vice versa. Whats more, things change at different speed in different countries, I know for a fact that in some places 'negro' isn't even considered offensive in the slightest. In fact, it came a surprise to us (an entire class of second-year law students living in London) the other day that labelling someone as an 'oriental' is considered extremely offensive in America. While 'oriental' is not something wonderfully PC, it has certainly never been considered offensive in my immediate environment. Now, whether the certain London neighbourhoods, magazines, news channels etc. are all a bunch of racist spartans, that could be debatable.

To put it crudely; what is offensive in the nuances of the American English language may not be as or even offensive somewhere else. Indeed, imagine the perspective on this topic if English is not even your first language! It is both presumptious and incorrect to think that someone is being purposefully offensive (or even, indeed, offensive speaking from that part of the world they are writing from).

So, while it may not be the 1920's, people, there is no such thing as universal application, especially with something as nonsensical as this.

I guess that was me speaking as a mod; keep those hot-heads under control, I do not believe the thread-starter was acting on racist intentions.

Now, as a poster, let me just express my growing disdain for PC. I am SICK to death with being concerned about what word to use. I am fed up with the school of Political Correctness raising the eyebrow and spanking the wrist of those who use words such as 'negro' or even '******', only for Black people (or African-Americans, or 'People with a Darker Skin Colour But Who Are in No Way Different to Myself and I Must Acknowledge This In Every Opportunity I Have') to use it in apparently every day use, even flogging it in raps and songs and other examples of pop culture; so one is to infer that ONLY Black people can call each other '******'? Now where are the truly racist sentiments located?

Apparently, even racism is subjective. The same applies to anything that has been labelled. We have homosexuals who like to refer to each other or themselves as 'queens', but it is apparently offensive for heterosexuals to make light of that.

I have lost patience entirely with our ridiculous system of labelling, with its incompetence and its impermanence. Between you and me, I don't really give a dingo's kidney what people call each other, the intention is what is truly the important matter. Some people are more thick-skinned than others, and some people like to change the very thickness and thinness of their skin as the trends allow them to; I have grown weary of caring. If you want to talk to someone who is more concerned about the way they phrase something rather than in what they're saying in actual fact, go talk to the PC-mongers. If you want to talk to someone who really doesn't give a second-rate belly-flop if you're a Black homosexual Jew with a shoe-fetish (I had to throw that one in), take the time to talk to me.

Ant.

 

[Dreadsox]

If you want to talk to someone who really doesn't give a second-rate belly-flop if you're a Black homosexual Jew with a shoe-fetish (I had to throw that one in), take the time to talk to me.

Ant.

Ant....I have never....in one year seen you let loose like this.

That said.....

Oh BOY.....You have done it now!!!


Boy do I miss the BOY thread!!!

Peace,

Matt

 

[Anthony]

Erm... I'll take that as a compliment.

Lets just say, though I think this forum is far more well-behaved than it used to be, I do grow weary of people being so thin-skinned, especially when the intentions of the thread-starter were quite clear.

Ant.

 

[Dreadsox]

Erm... I'll take that as a compliment.

It was!!!

 

[BAW]

Boy do I miss the BOY thread!!!

 

[cass]

bit unrelated , but it seems to fit.
My neighbours have started a vineyard and are making their own wine. They proudly served us one of their bottles the other week. They even make their own fancy very professional looking labels.
"Black American Red Wine"......the grapes are called Black Amercian.
I didn't see any ill-intent in the first thread of this topic, just a genuine interest to learn. Go easy on one another.