What REALLY Caused Hurricane Katrina? - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-05-2005, 04:02 AM   #1
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What REALLY Caused Hurricane Katrina?

....according to more and more scientists, it was global warming.

So, unless this world begins to conserve its natural resources and we begin to find energy alternatives to fossil fuels, we should be expecting to experience more Katrinas.

Maybe now those Americans who have been resistant to alternative energy resources and conservation will begin to change their tune?

If not, no one should be surprised or upset when Katrinas happen.

We are being forewarned by scientists.

Our future depends on whether we want to listen or not.

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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20...urricanes.html


Experts: Brace for More Katrinas
AFP


Sept. 1, 2005 — As rescuers race to reach stranded survivors of Hurricane Katrina, scientists warn that the big storm will not be a unique event. Global warming appears to be pumping up the power of Atlantic hurricanes.

The death toll may reach into the hundreds from Monday's storm, and damages may top $15 billion, figures that put 2005 on track as the worst-ever year for hurricanes, according to experts measuring ocean temperatures and trade winds — the two big factors that breed these storms in the Caribbean and tropical North Atlantic.

Earlier this month, Tropical Storm Risk, a London-based consortium of experts, predicted that the region would see 22 tropical storms during the six-month June-November season, the most ever recorded and more than twice the average annual tally since records began in 1851.

Bush administration officials activated a new national emergency plan and announced they would tap strategic reserves of U.S. oil to ease fears of global shortages.


Seven of these storms would strike the United States, of which three would be hurricanes, it said.

Already, 2004 and 2003 were exceptional years: they marked the highest two-year totals ever recorded for overall hurricane activity in the North Atlantic.

This increase has also coincided with a big rise in Earth's surface temperature in recent years, driven by greenhouse gases that cause the sun's heat to be stored in the sea, land and air rather than radiate back out to space.

But experts are cautious, also noting that hurricane numbers seem to undergo swings, over decades.

About 90 tropical storms — a term that includes hurricanes and their Asian counterparts, typhoons — occur each year.

The global total seems to be stable, although regional tallies vary a lot, and in particular seem to be influenced by the El Nino weather pattern in the Western Pacific.

"(Atlantic) cyclones have been increasing in numbers since 1995, but one can't say with certainty that there is a link to global warming," said Patrick Galois with the French weather service Meteo-France.

"There have been other high-frequency periods for storms, such as in the 1950s and '60s, and it could be that what we are seeing now is simply part of a cycle, with highs and lows."

On the other hand, more and more scientists estimate that global warming, while not necessarily making hurricanes more frequent or likelier to make landfall, is making them more vicious.

Hurricanes derive from clusters of thunderstorms over tropical waters that are warmer than 27.2 degrees C (81 degrees F).

A key factor in ferocity is the temperature differential between the sea surface and the air above the storm. The warmer the sea, the bigger the differential and the bigger the potential to "pump up" the storm.

Just a tiny increase in surface temperature can have an extraordinary effect, said researcher Kerry Emanuel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

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Old 09-05-2005, 04:27 AM   #2
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I dont understand complacency when talking abut the environment and it's future.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:47 AM   #3
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Gosh, this is scary.
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Old 09-05-2005, 06:44 AM   #4
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Sorry, but how do you explain all these hurricanes? Obviously global warming wasn't a factor. I think its just a way to try and support an agenda.

Top 10 Most Intense Hurricanes in U.S. History:

1. Florida Keys 1935
2. Hurricane Camille 1969
3. Hurricane Andrew 1992
4. Florida and Texas 1919
5. Lake Okeechobee 1928
6. Hurricane Donna 1960
7. Galveston, Texas 1900
7. Grand Isle Hurricane 1909
7. Louisiana 1915
7. Hurricane Carla 1961
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Old 09-05-2005, 06:50 AM   #5
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Yeah, to say that global warming "caused" Katrina is kind of misleading. Is it possible that global warming may have played a factor in making it worse than it needed to be? Maybe. But it's not as if we had passed a few more environment-protection bills this wouldn't have happened. Let's not jump to conclusions. Natural disasters happen. Simple as that.
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Old 09-05-2005, 06:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Sorry, but how do you explain all these hurricanes? Obviously global warming wasn't a factor. I think its just a way to try and support an agenda.

Top 10 Most Intense Hurricanes in U.S. History:

1. Florida Keys 1935
2. Hurricane Camille 1969
3. Hurricane Andrew 1992
4. Florida and Texas 1919
5. Lake Okeechobee 1928
6. Hurricane Donna 1960
7. Galveston, Texas 1900
7. Grand Isle Hurricane 1909
7. Louisiana 1915
7. Hurricane Carla 1961


yes, continue to ignore global warming. it's just a theory, like evolution. there's a agenda in place, you must be right.

it's not the fact that the temperature in the Gulf of Mexico is a degree warmer than it was last year. it's not the fact that these storms are fueled by warm water, so while warming oceans might not create more hurricanes they do much to increase the intensity of the storm and to slow it down so that it creates more damage as it passes over land.
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:05 AM   #7
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Yes, and you go ahead and continue to ignore my point, Irvine...
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Yes, and you go ahead and continue to ignore my point, Irvine...


you had a point?

seems like you had a list.
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:19 AM   #9
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No there was a point there, really. Look a little harder..Okay I'll tell you. Global warming was not the cause of the intensity of Katrina. Not unless you can explain away the majority of the 10 most intense hurricanes in history. Your use of sarcasm to discredit the facts is pretty weak.
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Sorry, but how do you explain all these hurricanes? Obviously global warming wasn't a factor. I think its just a way to try and support an agenda.

Top 10 Most Intense Hurricanes in U.S. History:

1. Florida Keys 1935
2. Hurricane Camille 1969
3. Hurricane Andrew 1992
4. Florida and Texas 1919
5. Lake Okeechobee 1928
6. Hurricane Donna 1960
7. Galveston, Texas 1900
7. Grand Isle Hurricane 1909
7. Louisiana 1915
7. Hurricane Carla 1961
Who cares about intensity? The point is MORE of them are coming. This is obviously because of global warming. We can't ignor it forever...
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:28 AM   #11
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Well, it's not a secret that the intense heat of the Gulf of Mexico created Katrina. It was just a Category 1 storm when it hit Florida, and the 90 degree waters of the Gulf of Mexico made the storm explode.

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Old 09-05-2005, 07:44 AM   #12
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Global warming probably played a role in the strength of Katrina, but something that will make hurricanes more deadly and costly this this is population. Look at the population of costal communities now compared to 25 years ago. There is a huge increase. The more things we build in a potential hurricance path, the more damage there's going to be. If we had more trees and less homes, less people would die and it would be less expensive.
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Sorry, but how do you explain all these hurricanes? Obviously global warming wasn't a factor. I think its just a way to try and support an agenda.

Top 10 Most Intense Hurricanes in U.S. History:

1. Florida Keys 1935
2. Hurricane Camille 1969
3. Hurricane Andrew 1992
4. Florida and Texas 1919
5. Lake Okeechobee 1928
6. Hurricane Donna 1960
7. Galveston, Texas 1900
7. Grand Isle Hurricane 1909
7. Louisiana 1915
7. Hurricane Carla 1961
source ?
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
source ?
CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/hur...t.exclude.html
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby


CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/hur...t.exclude.html
Nothing from before the industrial revolution?

(btw, according to your source, the list you posted were the top-10 deadliest not the top-10 most intense, though the lists are similar)
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:59 AM   #16
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Here you go, ranking by intensity:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastint.shtml

Rank
Hurricane
Year
Category (at landfall)
Minimum Pressure (mb)
MinimumPressure (in)
1 Unnamed (FL Keys) 1935 5 892 26.35
2 Camille (MS, SE LA, VA) 1969 5 909 26.84
3 Andrew (SE FL, SE LA) 1992 5 922 27.23
4 TX (Indianola) 1886 4 925 27.31
5 Unnamed (FL Keys, S TX) 1919 4 927 27.37
6 Unnamed (Lake Okeechobee FL) 1928 4 929 27.43
7 Donna (FL, Eastern U.S.) 1960 4 930 27.46
8 Unnamed (New Orleans LA) 1915 4 931 27.49
8 Carla (N & Cent. TX) 1961 4 931 27.49
10 LA (Last Island) 1856 4 934 27.58
10 Hugo (SC) 1989 4 934 27.58
12 Unnamed (Miami FL, MS, AL, Pensacola FL) 1926 4 935 27.61
13 Unnamed (Galveston TX) 1900 4 936 27.64
14 Unnamed GA/FL (Brunswick, GA) 1898 4 938 27.70
14 Hazel (SC, NC) 1954 4 938 27.70
16 Unnamed (SE FL, SE LA, MS) 1947 4 940 27.76
17 Unnamed (N TX) 1932 4 941 27.79
17 Charley (Eastern U.S.) 2004 4 941 27.79
19 Gloria (Eastern U.S.) 1985 3a 942 27.82
19 Opal (NW FL, AL) 1995 3a 942 27.82
21 Unnamed (Central FL) 1888 3 945 27.91
21 Unnamed (E NC) 1899 3 945 27.91
21 Audrey (SW LA, N TX) 1957 4b 945 27.91
21 Unnamed (Galveston TX) 1915 4b 945 27.91
21 Celia (S TX) 1970 3 945 27.91
21 Allen (S TX) 1980 3 945 27.91
27 Unnamed (New England) 1938 3 946 27.94
27 Frederic (AL, MS) 1979 3 946 27.94
27 Ivan (AL, NW FL) 2004 3 946 27.94
30 Unnamed (NE U.S.) 1944 3 947 27.97
30 Unnamed (SC, NC) 1906 3 947 27.97
32 Unnamed (LA Chenier Caminanda) 1893 3 948 27.99
32 Betsy (SE FL, SE LA) 1965 3 948 27.99
32 Unnamed (SE FL, NW FL) 1929 3 948 27.99
32 Unnamed (SE FL) 1933 3 948 27.99
32 Unnamed (S TX) 1916 3 948 27.99
32 Unnamed (MS, AL) 1916 3 948 27.99
38 Unnamed (NW FL) 1882 3 949 28.02
38 Diana (NC) 1984 3c 949 28.02
38 Unnamed (S TX) 1933 3 949 28.02
41 Unnamed (GA/SC) 1854 3 950 28.05
41 Unnamed (LA/MS) 1855 3 950 28.05
41 Unnamed (LA/MS/AL) 1860 3 950 28.05
41 Unnamed (LA) 1879 3 950 28.05
41 Beulah (S TX) 1967 3 950 28.05
41 Hilda (Central LA) 1964 3 950 28.05
41 Gracie (SC) 1959 3 950 28.05
41 Unnamed (Central TX) 1942 3 950 28.05
41 Jeanne (FL) 2004 3 950 28.05
50 Unnamed (SE FL) 1945 3 951 28.08
50 Bret (S TX) 1999 3 951 28.08
52 Unnamed (Grand Isle LA) 1909 3 952 28.11
52 Unnamed (Tampa Bay FL) 1921 3 952 28.11
52 Carmen (Central LA) 1974 3 952 28.11
54 Unnamed (SC/NC) 1885 3 953 28.14
54 Unnamed (S FL) 1906 3 953 28.14
56 Unnamed (GA/SC) 1893 3 954 28.17
56 Edna (New England) 1954 3 954 28.17
56 Unnamed (SE FL) 1949 3 954 28.17
56 Fran (NC) 1996 3 954 28.17
60 Unnamed (SE FL) 1871 3 955 28.20
60 Unnamed (LA/TX) 1886 3 955 28.20
60 Unnamed (SC/NC) 1893 3 955 28.20
60 Unnamed (NW FL) 1894 3 955 28.20
60 Eloise (NW FL) 1975 3 955 28.20
60 King (SE FL) 1950 3 955 28.20
60 Unnamed (Central LA) 1926 3 955 28.20
60 Unnamed (SW LA) 1918 3 955 28.20
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:59 AM   #17
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Sorry, there is a link within that link at the top. My bad.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:17 AM   #18
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Anthopogenic Effects on Tropical Cyclone Activity

Everything you've ever wanted to know about this subject, especially if you visit his homepage.

Some interesting stuff:

Quote:
1.) Q: Is global warming causing more hurricanes?

A: No. The global, annual frequency of tropical cyclones (the generic, meteorological term for the storm that is called a tropical storm or hurricane in the Atlantic region) is about 90, plus or minus 10. There is no indication whatsoever of a long-term trend in this number.
Quote:
3.) Q: Is the intensity of hurricanes increasing with time?

A: There is some evidence that it is. Records of hurricane activity worldwide show an upswing of both the maximum wind speed in and the duration of hurricanes. The energy released by the average hurricane (again considering all hurricanes worldwide) seems to have increased by around 70% in the past 30 years or so, corresponding to about a 15% increase in the maximum wind speed and a 60% increase in storm lifetime.
Quote:
8.) Q: I gather from this last discussion that it would be absurd to attribute the Katrina disaster to global warming?

A: Yes, it would be absurd.
Quote:
9.) Q: OK, maybe we won’t see global warming effects in landfalling hurricanes for another 50 years or so, but shouldn’t we still be worried about it?

A: The answer to this question is largely a matter of one’s geographical and time horizons. For U.S.-centric concerns over the next 30-50 years, by far the most important hurricane problem we face is demographic and political. Consider that Katrina, as horrible as it was, was by no means unprecedented, meteorologically speaking. More intense storms have struck the U.S. coastline long ago. The big problem is the headlong rush to tropical coastlines, coupled with federal and state policies that subsidize the risk incurred by coastal development. Private property insurance is heavily regulated by each state, and political pressure keeps rates low in high-risk regions like tropical coastlines, thus encouraging people to build flimsy structures there. (Those living in low-risk regions pay for this in artificially high premiums.) Federal flood insurance pays for storm surge damage, and like private insurance, its rates do not reflect the true risk. We are subsidizing risky behavior and should not be surprised at the result.

On the other hand, if one’s view is not confined to the U.S. but is global, and/or one’s time horizon is more than 50 years, global warming may indeed begin to have a discernible influence on hurricane damage, especially when coupled with projected increases in sea level.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:33 AM   #19
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Dear George W.
Please reconsider Kyoto.

- Katrina

Biting piece of satire I read in a Danish newspaper yesterday. Please, Americans, make your country sign the Kyoto-treaty. This affects you too.

My sympathies to everyone affected.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:34 AM   #20
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Another environment issue is the regulating of rivers. The mississippi flows much faster than it did 100 years ago. This means that you have less sediments/little islands in front of NO, which would protect the city a little (i.e. breaking a big wave caused by a storm).

The "experts" who are still foolish enough to blame those disasters on nature alone, i.e. with the stubborn argument "storms have always been there", are paid, and whoever pays them directs the outcome of the analysis. Anyone who fails to see that is plain naive.

Some people will never learn, always continue to waste energy, burn gas, drive in big cars, eat at McDonalds producing tons of litter. There is nothing to do about that and they will not change a bit of their lifestyle even if ten hurricanes flood five states. They are so egoistic that they just don´t care if it hits someone else. They think the whole world´s resources are just created to serve them. That´s the mindset, and nobody´s gonna change that, so they are happy when industry pats them on the shoulders and says "no it´s not our fault, continue wasting away".

To put it simple: We have fucked with nature, now nature fucks with us.
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