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Old 01-27-2008, 07:47 PM   #221
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"This will propell her to victory in virtually every other state."


I don't think so.


Obama won

Iowa
SC

he will win DC

can he win in these?

Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, Virginia, Delaware, Vermont, Alaska, Texas?
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:58 PM   #222
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I think many of those states could go either way...Virginia will be interesting. Northern Virginia is kind of split between Obama and Hillary, the rest of the state is mostly split between Obama and Edwards.

I'll be seeing Obama on Feb 9, and possibly Hillary Clinton as well (and MAYBE John Edwards) so that'll be interesting.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:07 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

like Jackson he gets them

fired up and ready to go

Jackson was very influential in Clinton's 92 win
getting voters to the polls


I just believe that Hillary has a better chance of capturing more (in all age groups) moderates, independents and moderate GOP like myself.

I remember how I respected Jesse Jackson back then, and the feeling that even with all that he spoke, and I agreed with - I was still going to vote for Bill Clinton, and did.
With Obama however, its different.

With that said, I completely agree with your last point.
Hillary has a much better chance of reaching a larger range of voters.
Guess we'll see, to a degree, on super Tuesday.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:26 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
"This will propell her to victory in virtually every other state."


I don't think so.


Obama won

Iowa
SC

he will win DC

can he win in these?

Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, Virginia, Delaware, Vermont, Alaska, Texas?
"Virtually"

And I believe there are only three states in which the African American voters approach the numbers that SC has.

There is also a big difference betwee Iowa - a caucus verses a primary.

So, CA and NY go to Hillary - Game set match.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:34 PM   #225
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This article explains why voters are attracted to Obama.

Personally I would vote for him over McCain. With Obama you get the real deal, who has integrity, faithful to his wife and isn't a conniving or plotting person:

Dear Mr. Obama;

You’re right. Your assertion from the past week is absolutely correct. You ARE running against “both Clintons.”



US Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama (D-IL) is pictured during a roundtable discussion with women in Columbia, South Carolina, January 25, 2008. The next Presidential Primary will be held in South Carolina on January 26. REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008 (USA) I’ll address “both Clintons” in a moment. First, let me congratulate you and thank you for staying “above board,“ and conducting a mostly honorable and positive campaign.

Given my previous criticisms of some of your ideas, in this and other publications, you might be surprised to find me being complimentary now. But this gets to an important point: I can disagree with your ideas, while still respecting your conduct. And at this moment I’m commenting on your conduct.

Unlike some “black leaders” (self-appointed as they may be) of our day, you seem to be running a campaign that is generally devoid of the race baiting rhetoric that has become commonplace. And while I’m sure that you have experienced plenty of prejudice and bigotry in your lifetime, I don’t sense that you assume yourself to be a victim merely because of your skin color, or that you would assume me to be your perpetrator merely because of mine. This is very refreshing, and I’m grateful for it.

Similarly, I’m impressed that you and your wife Michelle seem to be contented and confident in your respective rolls. A well educated and accomplished professional in her own right, Michelle appears to be comfortable with the reality that you are campaigning for the presidency, and she is not. Based on what we can observe publicly, it seems that the Obama family simply “is what it is,” regardless of whether or not “it” is politically expedient at any given moment. This, too, is refreshing. It’s good for you, your family, and our country.

Now, about the Clintons. Yes, it’s tragic what they are doing, both to you, and to your party. As for you, they have most certainly distorted your position on the war in Iraq, and your statements about President Reagan. As for the party, they have made key issues of race and gender, and have enflamed racial tensions that some people didn’t know existed. But surely you can’t be surprised by this - - can you?

Let’s examine some of what’s happened. Earlier this month, after several days of Bill trashing your character, complete with the “fairy tale” and “hit job” accusations, you finally called him on it. Shortly thereafter, we saw Bill speaking in a black church claiming “I kind of like seeing Barack and Hillary fighting” - - his clever, passive way of implying that he isn‘t in the fight himself.

Then, after yet another week of Bill assaulting you and distorting your record, complete with his repeated, grotesque, red-faced tirades before the tv cameras, Hillary got “emotional” again - - claiming reluctantly that she’s been attacked by you, and then in her oh-so regretful tone of voice stating that she has no other choice but to “counterpunch.”

Mr. Obama, are you surprised by any of this? I’m younger than you are, and I remember the politics of the 1990’s all too well. Surely you must also remember.

Mr. and Mrs. Clinton are the merciless masters of misinformation. The veracity of their assertions and subtle implications, and the damage that they might bring about at any given moment, doesn’t matter - - their “story” will change later, anyway. What matters for the Clintons is what they can accomplish politically for themselves, in the moment. This was the politics of the Clintons’ White House, and it is now the politics of the Clintons’ campaign to destroy you.

And as much as you have tried to not make your ethnicity an issue in your campaign, it matters. Especially for the Clintons. While Bill likes to fancy himself as America’s “first black President,” and Hillary thinks that nobody has done more for the cause of “civil rights” than herself, you symbolize something very unnerving to them. You’re the accomplished, confident black man from a younger generation who doesn’t need their help. Worse yet, you have the “audacity” to challenge their authority. You obliterate their long-held stereotype, and threaten to obliterate an entire political paradigm. You endanger the old-school politics of the Clintons.

But doesn’t this ultimately lead us to your concept of the “politics of hope,” Mr. Obama? When the Clintons speak of “change,” they’re merely speaking of an end to Republican rule and their own return at White House. For you, it seems that “change” and “hope” mean a departure from the Clintons’ duplicitous, deceitful politics of personal destruction. Tell us more about that, Mr. Obama. And feel free to tell us how the Clintons’ “good candidate / bad candidate” gamesmanship appears from your vantage point.

And regardless of how your campaign ends, I believe that your candidacy has already accomplished great things. Ultimately, I believe that American politics will be better-off when your party relinquishes itself from the Clintons’ stranglehold, and I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

But not matter how these next several weeks unfold, be strong. And remember, Mr. Obama. You’re right.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:35 PM   #226
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I doubt he could win CA or NY but I think he could definitely pick up delegates in both.
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, Virginia, Delaware, Vermont, Alaska, Texas?
IMO...yes, yes, yes, yes, doubtful, maybe, doubtful, probably, no idea, doubtful
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:09 PM   #227
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Originally posted by diamond

For you, it seems that “change” and “hope” mean a departure from the Clintons’ duplicitous, deceitful politics of personal destruction. Tell us more about that, Mr. Obama. And feel free to tell us how the Clintons’ “good candidate / bad candidate” gamesmanship appears from your vantage point.
Good/bad gamesmanship? Someone's been listening to too many talking heads.
STOP LISTENING TO SOUNDBITES.
Duplicitous, deceitful politics of personal destruction.
This is a tactic fabricated and promoted by the Carl Rove machine.
That goes along with the bullshit that Hillary is using him to do the dirty work.
Bill isn't becoming the monster some of the media wants him to be.
He's picking his battles and letting Hillary run on her own merit.
But he's not going to let it ride when people attack her... or him for that matter.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:13 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Personally I would vote for him over McCain. With Obama you get the real deal, who has integrity, faithful to his wife and isn't a conniving or plotting person:
I find this funny considering McCain's light years ahead of any other GOP candidate.

Huckabee's running for Protestant Pope, and Romney's downright infuriating.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:26 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Personally I would vote for him over McCain. With Obama you get the real deal, who has integrity, faithful to his wife and isn't a conniving or plotting person:

I am just amazed. . .amazed. . .by the blindness of the Democratic establishment. You've got conservatives. . .CONSERVATIVES. . .saying they'd vote for Obama! Okay, maybe diamond is just being hypothetical but the point remains. This guy has the appeal. Hillary does NOT speak to those outside the party faithful. Obama does. The party faithful though are too blind to see it. They're so dazzled by the Clinton legacy--those glory years of the 90's and they're forgetting how negatively much of America viewed both Clintons. Whether that that anti-Clinton distaste is warranted or not is debatable but the point is, it's there. The Republicans know it. The Republicans WANT her to get the nomination. . .do the Clinton worshipers ever stop to wonder why?
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:12 AM   #230
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Originally posted by maycocksean

The Republicans WANT her to get the nomination. . .do the Clinton worshipers ever stop to wonder why?
There is such a thing as a Clinton worshiper? Seriously?
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:42 AM   #231
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Reports: Kennedy clan rift over racial attacks on Obama
By Jessica Van Sack | Monday, January 28, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s endorsement of presidential hopeful Illinois Sen. Barack Obama reportedly came after mounting anger toward the Clintons over the racial overtones of campaign attacks against Obama.

Quoting anonymous sources, both the Washington Post and New York Times [NYT] reported that Kennedy was frustrated with attacks on Obama by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, which he thought to be misleading. Sources confirmed Kennedy expressed his angst to Bill Clinton directly.

According to the Post, the senior senator’s frustration boiled over Saturday when the former president sought to downplay Obama’s South Carolina win by comparing him to the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who won the Palmetto State in his long-shot 1984 and 1988 campaigns.

In bracing for his wife’s South Carolina defeat at a rally in Columbia, S.C., Bill Clinton told a reporter, “Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in ’84 and ’88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here.”

Meanwhile, there is widespread speculation on the campaign trail that Bill Clinton will tone down his hatchet-man role in the campaign after weeks of being on the front lines.

The senior Bay State senator’s nod for Obama today is an especially painful blow as it comes as Hillary Clinton is scheduled to campaign in Springfield, followed by a high-rolling Hub fund-raiser.

Kennedy plans to campaign aggressively for Obama in the critical days leading up to the multistate Super Tuesday primary Feb. 5. The Obama campaign announced late last night that Kennedy will campaign for Obama today at American University in Washington, D.C., along with his niece Caroline Kennedy.

The hotly contested Democratic contest has spawned a political family feud of sorts within the famous Kennedy clan, prompting the children of Sen. Kennedy’s slain brother, Robert Kennedy, to affirm their support for Clinton.

“I respect Caroline and Teddy’s decision but I have made a different choice,” said Kathleen Kennedy Townsend in a statement released yesterday by the Clinton campaign after news of the senator’s endorsement was leaked.

Townsend also noted her brother Robert, an avid environmentalist, and Mary Kerry, a human rights activist, endorsed the New York senator.

Caroline Kennedy declared her support in a weekend New York Times op-ed, and in a state where devoted Irish-Catholics still dutifully keep portraits of JFK on their mantles, the late president’s daughter may be especially effective.

“It’s a special kind of endorsement,” said Paul Watanabe, political science professor at the University of Massachusetts at Boston.

The latest SurveyUSA poll shows Clinton with a tidy lead in the Bay State, running with 59 percent compared to Obama’s 22 percent and former Sen. John Edwards’ 11 percent.

“The Clintons put on a full-court press to get the Kennedy endorsement,” a longtime Kennedy confidante told the Herald.

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Steve Grossman, an active Clinton operative and longtime friend of the Kennedys, sought to downplay the senator’s endorsement.

“The people of this state are going to make up their minds based on record of achievement and ability of candidates,” he said.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:56 AM   #232
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ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: Nobel Prize winner Toni Morrison -- who famously declared Bill Clinton to be the nation's "first black president" -- is endorsing Barack Obama for president today, an Obama campaign source tells ABC News.

This comes as Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., also announces his support for Obama on Monday, at a rally in Washington.

In an October 1998 essay in The New Yorker, Morrison wrote: "Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black president. Blacker than any actual person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime."

The Morrison endorsement is expected to come via letter from Morrison to Obama that the campaign is releasing later today.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:08 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


There is such a thing as a Clinton worshiper? Seriously?
in this country, yes.

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Old 01-28-2008, 09:32 AM   #234
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There is such a thing as a Clinton worshiper? Seriously?

Yes! Until recently most people in the Democratic party were Clinton worshippers. People adore(d) him. Things are changing now.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:17 AM   #235
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hey, U2dem, when is our date for primaries in VA? I thought I saw Tuesday, Feb 12. Is that right? Not that I have decided who to vote for yet, but I want to participate.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:28 AM   #236
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ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: Nobel Prize winner Toni Morrison -- who famously declared Bill Clinton to be the nation's "first black president" -- is endorsing Barack Obama for president today, an Obama campaign source tells ABC News.

This comes as Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., also announces his support for Obama on Monday, at a rally in Washington.

In an October 1998 essay in The New Yorker, Morrison wrote: "Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black president. Blacker than any actual person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime."

The Morrison endorsement is expected to come via letter from Morrison to Obama that the campaign is releasing later today.
Yep, you can fool some of the people some of the time..Go Toni, Go Barrack!
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:05 AM   #237
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I think Kennedy's endorsement of Obama is huge. When people think of the Democratic party, what name do people think of the most? Obviously, the Kennedy name.

And the timing, just before Super Tuesday, I'm sure was done on purpose, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Before I thought Clinton would dominate most of Super Tuesday, but now I'm not so sure. An endorsement from Kennedy will get a lot of attention.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:57 AM   #238
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NY Observer

Why Obama Might Win Massachusetts
by Steve Kornacki | January 27

Ted Kennedy's direct link to Camelot means that his endorsement of Barack Obama will have national implications. But its impact might be most acute in Massachusetts, one of the largest states to vote on February 5 and a very winnable target for Obama.

Polling has been sporadic in Massachusetts, but Hillary Clinton has led -- often decisively -- in the surveys taken so far. But her margins may shrink as the state's electorate focuses more closely on the race, and in the wake of Obama's South Carolina victory.

With Kennedy on board, Obama now has a monopoly on the Bay State's highest profile Democrats: John Kerry signed on two weeks ago, and Governor Deval Patrick endorsed Obama late last fall.

To be sure, Clinton has her share of elected official support in Massachusetts. But generally, they are lower-profile and less dynamic establishment figures. Kennedy is a revered figure among rank-and-file Democrats, as is Patrick, the state's first black governor (and the first black Democrat ever to win statewide office in Massachusetts). In fact, there are some remarkable thematic and stylistic similarities between the Obama campaign and Patrick's own '06 effort.

Not insignificantly, Obama is also being assisted by Phil Johnston, a loyal Kennedy family lieutenant who chaired the Massachusetts Democratic Party for a decade before stepping down last year.

A Massachusetts win would be a nice feather in Obama's February 5 cap. Not only are 93 delegates at stake (the fifth most among the 23 states and territories voting on February 5), but it would refute suggestions that Obama has been marginalized as "the black candidate:" There are fewer blacks in Massachusetts per capita (five percent) than in Kansas, and George Wallace actually carried Boston in the 1972 Democratic primary.

A victory in Massachusetts, where just 33 years ago rocks were thrown at buses carrying black students to South Boston High, would serve as powerful evidence that Obama's vision of a coalition that transcends old ethnic divides is more than just rhetoric.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:17 PM   #239
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WASHINGTON (AP) - Two generations of Kennedys—the Democratic Party's best known political family—endorsed Barack Obama for president on Monday, with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy calling him a "man with extraordinary gifts of leadership and character," a worthy heir to his assassinated brother.

"I feel change in the air. What about you?" Kennedy said in a speech salted with scarcely veiled criticism of Obama's chief rival for the nomination, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, as well as her husband, the former president.

Kennedy's endorsement was ardently sought by all three of the remaining presidential contenders, and he delivered it at a pivotal time in the race. A liberal lion in his fifth decade in the Senate, the Massachusetts senator is in a position to help Obama court Hispanic voters as well as rank-and-file members of labor unions, two key elements of the Democratic Party.

He is expected to campaign actively for Obama in the eight days leading up to next Tuesday's delegate-rich primaries and caucuses across 24 states, beginning later this week in Arizona, New Mexico and California.

The senator made his comments at a crowded campaign rally at American University that took on the appearances of a Kennedy family embrace of Obama.

He was introduced by Caroline Kennedy, daughter of the late president, who said Obama "offers that same sense of hope and inspiration" as did her father. Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island, son of the senator, also offered his support.

In is own remarks, Kennedy sought one by one to rebut many of the arguments leveled by Obama's critics.

"From the beginning, he opposed the war in Iraq. And let no one deny that truth," he said, an obvious reference to former President Clinton's statement that Obama's early anti-war stance was a "fairy tale."

"With Barack Obama, we will turn the page on the old politics of misrepresentation and distortion.

"With Barack Obama we will close the book on the old politics of race against race, gender against gender, ethnic group against ethnic group, and straight against gay," Kennedy said.

The Massachusetts senator had remained on the sideline of the presidential campaign for months, saying he was friends with Obama, Clinton and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, as well and several Senate colleagues who are no longer in the race.

Lately, according to several associates, Kennedy became angered with what he viewed as racially divisive comments by Bill Clinton. Nearly two weeks ago, he played a personal key role in arranging a brief truce between the Clintons and Obama on the issue.

Kennedy refers only sparingly to his assassinated brothers, John and Robert, in his public remarks, and his endorsement of Obama was cast in terms that aides said was unusually personal.

"There was another time, when another young candidate was running for president and challenging America to cross a new frontier. He faced criticism from the preceding Democratic president, who was widely respected in the party," Kennedy said, referring to Harry Truman.

"And John Kennedy replied, 'The world is changing. The old ways will not do. ... It is time for a new generation of leadership.

"So it is with Barack Obama," he added.

Kennedy began his remarks by paying tribute to Sen. Clinton's advocacy for issues such as health care and women's rights. "Whoever is our nominee will have my enthusiastic support," he said.

But he quickly pivoted to a strong endorsement of Obama, whom he said "has extraordinary gifts of leadership and character, matched to the extraordinary demands of this moment in history."

"I believe that a wave of change is moving across America," Kennedy said.

Also Monday, Obama picked up the endorsement of author Toni Morrison, who once labeled Bill Clinton as the "first black president." Morrison said she has has admired Obama rival Hillary Rodham Clinton for years because of her knowledge and mastery of politics, but cited Obama's "creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom."

Morrison said her endorsement had little to do with Obama's race—he is the son of a black father from Kenya and a white mother from Kansas—but rather his personal gifts.

Writing with the touch of a poet in a letter to the Illinois senator, Morrison explained why she chose Obama over Clinton for her first public presidential endorsement.

"In addition to keen intelligence, integrity and a rare authenticity, you exhibit something that has nothing to do with age, experience, race or gender and something I don't see in other candidates," Morrison wrote. "That something is a creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom. It is too bad if we associate it only with gray hair and old age. Or if we call searing vision naivete. Or if we believe cunning is insight. Or if we settle for finessing cures tailored for each ravaged tree in the forest while ignoring the poisonous landscape that feeds and surrounds it."
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:21 PM   #240
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I'm watching Kennedy right now.

I just don't get it. I just don't get how all he has to do is mention the word "change" or "hope" or "inspiration" over and over and the crowd erupts. I hope this is not how we choose the next president.

From Kennedy and Obama's supporters I get the impression that they believe Obama will supposedly make everyone happy and united and there won't be any more division in this country, and they present it like that's a good thing. It isn't. America is supposed to be divided and have debates. They talk like everyone is going to fall in love with Obama and become Democrats and march in lockstep behind him.
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