BonoVoxSupastar said:Are we talking eternal justice or "law of the land" justice?
coemgen said:"All debts are removed." That's Grace.
Also, that doesn't mean justice on Earth can't be, or doesn't need to be, carried out.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I agree with this for the most part, we just have to careful of what our earthly "justice" is...
Irvine511 said:i love the inclusiveness of "window in the skies."
many skies. over many countries. for many different kinds of people.
reminds me of a great Springsteen lyric:
[q]This train
Carries saints and sinners
This train
Carries losers and winners
This Train
Carries whores and gamblers
This Train
Carries lost souls
This Train
Dreams will not be thwarted
This Train
Faith will be rewarded
This Train
Hear the steel wheels singin'
This Train
Bells of freedom ringin'
This Train
Carries broken-hearted
This Train
Thieves and sweet souls departed
This Train
Carries fools and kings
This Train
All aboard[/q]
coemgen said:
I like these lyrics, too. Thanks for posting. May we all chose to get on the train.
Irvine511 said:
and i'm pretty sure we'll find the Buddha, Vishnu, Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad on that train.
Irvine511 said:
and i'm pretty sure we'll find the Buddha, Vishnu, Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad on that train.
coemgen said:
That would be nice, but the differences of all these people's faiths lead them to take different trains.
coemgen said:Irvine, by saying faith is all that matters, you're not really solidifying the discussion though. I can have faith that God is a tomato and you can only get to heaven if you make a mean bottle of ketchup out of it. Does that make it true?
And all of these faiths can't be the same train (I see the train as the way to God or heaven). Jesus claimed he's the only way to God. Jews don't believe Jesus is the Christ. Islam just considers Jesus a prophet and Buddhists don't even really believe in God. How can they all lead to the same place?
As true as your own lord and saviour, how can one fallacy be better than another? Say what you will about a lack of belief at least it's consistent, we all end up dead.I can have faith that God is a tomato and you can only get to heaven if you make a mean bottle of ketchup out of it. Does that make it true?
Irvine511 said:
God, Jesus, Mohammad, the Buddha -- all different cultural understandings of the same thing.
nathan1977 said:
Buddhists -- as I mentioned in the other thread -- don't believe in god per se -- certainly not a Supreme Being in any relational sense. There is only enlightenment.
Muslims believe in a God of supreme and inconceivable holiness, who rules based on His own laws of justice, laws that humans (as unholy creatures) cannot comprehend.
Christians believe in a God of mercy and grace, Who trumps His laws of justice with a greater law of love.
Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Son of God (because humans are too unholy for God to consort with), don't accept His sacrifical death on a cross (they believe that God switched Jesus and Judas on a cross -- a holy God would not allow a noble prophet like Jesus to die), and thus have no concept of grace (unmerited favor).
Buddhists would not accept anyone who claims to be God in a Supreme sense, because everyone has the capacity to be "enlightened" (i.e., gods in their own minds). In this no one one should be set up above another. (Even the Buddha as we know him is just a teacher.)
Each of these God-concepts carries substantial differences from the other -- differences not just in the application but in the fundamental identity (or not) of God Himself.
Irvine511 said:
the song being what happens when you die, all are explanations of the same thing, our connection to the infinite (i.e., Nirvana could also be understood as akin to an existence in heaven).
Irvine511 said:to add something: it's not that "it's all the same" in that all religions are the same; rather, all religions are concered with, and provide access and answers to, the same thing.
coemgen said:
Yes, but the answers are very different. Many contradict each other, and/or don't even acknowledge the others as being true.
A_Wanderer said:Can we really never know? People die and are brought back to life more today than any other time in history, there are those who take these experiences to reinforce beliefs but they still provide information, the number of NDE cases will only increase in time.
To reduce all religions to the banality of something like death robs them of anything inherently special, now thats all well and good but it is not the catch cry of any belief system offering absolute revealed truth.
Irvine511 said:
but it's still the same question. it's all about the same thing that we cannot ever know: what happens when we die.
f you want to get Freudian you can reduce it all to eros and thanatos.Irvine511 said:
love and faith and sex and fear / and all the things that keep us here