What if God forgives everyone? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-10-2006, 09:12 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 09:51 PM
What if God forgives everyone?

Then what happens to our feelings on judgement and justice?
__________________

Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:19 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 17,761
Local Time: 10:51 PM
I guess that would depend on what your individual feelings on those subject matters are to begin with. Certainly humanity doesn't hold a universal belief in either of those.

Personally, nothing about my belief regarding judgment would change because I already feel that forgiveness is a tool which allows you to liberate yourself and that is why it is worthy of pursuit. As for justice, I don't believe there is such a thing anyway so that wouldn't change either.
__________________

anitram is online now  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:38 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:51 PM
My faith teaches that we are to forgive all men and that God will forgive who he chooses to forgive.

dbs
diamond is offline  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:11 PM   #4
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,226
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Are we talking eternal justice or "law of the land" justice?
BVS is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 05:43 AM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Are we talking eternal justice or "law of the land" justice?
I suppose both.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:40 AM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:51 PM
I believe God forgives anyone who sincerely asks for it through his son. "All debts are removed." That's Grace.
Also, that doesn't mean justice on Earth can't be, or doesn't need to be, carried out.
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:48 AM   #7
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,226
Local Time: 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
"All debts are removed." That's Grace.
Also, that doesn't mean justice on Earth can't be, or doesn't need to be, carried out.
I agree with this for the most part, we just have to careful of what our earthly "justice" is...
BVS is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:50 AM   #8
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,216
Local Time: 10:51 PM
i love the inclusiveness of "window in the skies."

many skies. over many countries. for many different kinds of people.

reminds me of a great Springsteen lyric:

[q]This train
Carries saints and sinners
This train
Carries losers and winners
This Train
Carries whores and gamblers
This Train
Carries lost souls
This Train
Dreams will not be thwarted
This Train
Faith will be rewarded
This Train
Hear the steel wheels singin'
This Train
Bells of freedom ringin'
This Train
Carries broken-hearted
This Train
Thieves and sweet souls departed
This Train
Carries fools and kings
This Train
All aboard[/q]
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:53 AM   #9
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 64,184
Local Time: 10:51 PM
meet me in the land of hope and dreams
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:16 AM   #10
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I agree with this for the most part, we just have to careful of what our earthly "justice" is...
I agree with you there. (For the record, I don't agree with the death penalty.)
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:19 AM   #11
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i love the inclusiveness of "window in the skies."

many skies. over many countries. for many different kinds of people.

reminds me of a great Springsteen lyric:

[q]This train
Carries saints and sinners
This train
Carries losers and winners
This Train
Carries whores and gamblers
This Train
Carries lost souls
This Train
Dreams will not be thwarted
This Train
Faith will be rewarded
This Train
Hear the steel wheels singin'
This Train
Bells of freedom ringin'
This Train
Carries broken-hearted
This Train
Thieves and sweet souls departed
This Train
Carries fools and kings
This Train
All aboard[/q]
I like these lyrics, too. Thanks for posting. May we all chose to get on the train.
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:40 AM   #12
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,216
Local Time: 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


I like these lyrics, too. Thanks for posting. May we all chose to get on the train.


and i'm pretty sure we'll find the Buddha, Vishnu, Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad on that train.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:50 AM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




and i'm pretty sure we'll find the Buddha, Vishnu, Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad on that train.
I want to ride on that train and meet all of those great beings!
verte76 is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 11:26 AM   #14
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




and i'm pretty sure we'll find the Buddha, Vishnu, Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad on that train.
That would be nice, but the differences of all these people's faiths lead them to take different trains.
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 11:53 AM   #15
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,216
Local Time: 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


That would be nice, but the differences of all these people's faiths lead them to take different trains.


there's only one train, like there's only one window, but we all find our way onto that train or through that window.

to solidify the discussion a bit, i think in many ways, faith is all that matters. i find the understanding of the death "tunnel of light" image as a creation of an asphyxiating brain (as A_W could probably explain better). if you are a person of faith, that's god. right there. he's reaching out to you and you walk towards it and then maybe blackness and you're back to where you were before you were born, which is blankness and blackness, but your faith has given you access to that place for those fleeting seconds before your brain dies. kind of how a dream can seem to take a lifetime, but it's really taking place in those seconds before you wake up in the morning.

so, just some thoughts, and i do believe that if you believe you will be with God when you die, then you will be, as far as you are concerned, even if it isn't empirically true.

if that makes sense.

ever seen Waking Life?
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 11:57 AM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:51 PM
The evolutionary spandrel of conciousness affords us a wonderful death, although I would have an interest in altered states from a strictly materialist viewpoint; of course we don't need to wait for death for such things.
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 12:15 PM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
coemgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:51 PM
Irvine, by saying faith is all that matters, you're not really solidifying the discussion though. I can have faith that God is a tomato and you can only get to heaven if you make a mean bottle of ketchup out of it. Does that make it true?

And all of these faiths can't be the same train (I see the train as the way to God or heaven). Jesus claimed he's the only way to God. Jews don't believe Jesus is the Christ. Islam just considers Jesus a prophet and Buddhists don't even really believe in God. How can they all lead to the same place?
coemgen is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 12:22 PM   #18
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,216
Local Time: 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Irvine, by saying faith is all that matters, you're not really solidifying the discussion though. I can have faith that God is a tomato and you can only get to heaven if you make a mean bottle of ketchup out of it. Does that make it true?

And all of these faiths can't be the same train (I see the train as the way to God or heaven). Jesus claimed he's the only way to God. Jews don't believe Jesus is the Christ. Islam just considers Jesus a prophet and Buddhists don't even really believe in God. How can they all lead to the same place?


what i am saying is that if you have faith, your brain will give you the perception that you have gone to heaven when you die, and then blankness. so it's all okay.

God, Jesus, Mohammad, the Buddha -- all different cultural understandings of the same thing.

perhaps God speaks to us in our own language, or we use our own language to speak to ourselves about God.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 12:25 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 12:51 PM
Quote:
I can have faith that God is a tomato and you can only get to heaven if you make a mean bottle of ketchup out of it. Does that make it true?
As true as your own lord and saviour, how can one fallacy be better than another? Say what you will about a lack of belief at least it's consistent, we all end up dead.

If Jesus is the only path to God and God is the only God then does that make every unbeliever destined to hell? Whatever realms other faiths believe in can they exist, did Vikings go to Valhalla?
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 12-11-2006, 12:50 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,440
Local Time: 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

God, Jesus, Mohammad, the Buddha -- all different cultural understandings of the same thing.
Buddhists -- as I mentioned in the other thread -- don't believe in god per se -- certainly not a Supreme Being in any relational sense. There is only enlightenment.

Muslims believe in a God of supreme and inconceivable holiness, who rules based on His own laws of justice, laws that humans (as unholy creatures) cannot comprehend.

Christians believe in a God of mercy and grace, Who trumps His laws of justice with a greater law of love.

Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Son of God (because humans are too unholy for God to consort with), don't accept His sacrifical death on a cross (they believe that God switched Jesus and Judas on a cross -- a holy God would not allow a noble prophet like Jesus to die), and thus have no concept of grace (unmerited favor).

Buddhists would not accept anyone who claims to be God in a Supreme sense, because everyone has the capacity to be "enlightened" (i.e., gods in their own minds). In this no one one should be set up above another. (Even the Buddha as we know him is just a teacher.)

Each of these God-concepts carries substantial differences from the other -- differences not just in the application but in the fundamental identity (or not) of God Himself.
__________________

nathan1977 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×