what do you think "free your mind" means?

[Like someone to blame]

Re: Re: hoo haaaaa

I was just about to "take my ball home" until I read your compliment!
~U2Alabama

LOL!
I think you just insulted me, Bama.

Rob

 

[doctorwho]

I would have to agree
wish I could say I'm surprised by it

Well, I'm glad you aren't surprised. I often feel the mods and admins are responsible for some of the negative comments in these forums. Often, admins are all to quick to close a thread, simply because they do not approve of it. This creates additional hostility and does not allow for a healthy discussion where issues can be resolved. While some threads need to be closed, I have often thought some mods/admins were a little too "trigger-happy" with their power. Additionally, the mods/admins are just as guilty of instigating nasty comments or prolonging negative discussions as they will make little side comments, post confusing smileys or ask loaded questions, like the one asked here in this thread, cause strong negative reactions. For this thread to be anything BUT ugly would seem inappropriate to the question asked.

Therefore, if you want to "clean up" Interference, lead by example.

 

[diamond]

Hey Dr Handsome-
Nice new avatar, btw.
DB9

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I appreciate your comments. I agree that both sides are guilty of being nasty and hypocritical...I just sincerely believe it is more prevalent amongst the GOP-nationally and in this forum.

Am I the ONLY forum member who recalls Democrats accusing Republicans of WANTING to starve kids, kill the elder, and destroy the environment? Anybody remember why? Because the recently elected GOP-led Congress (c. 1995) wanted to decrease spending increases from THREE TIMES the rate of inflation to only TWICE the rate.

(I also love how that Congress was "the Republican takeover." See, only Democrats are apparently elected to public office. Republicans MUST take political power by force. Their ideas couldn't possibly be popular. Naaaah...)

Other examples:

"In South Africa, we call it apartheid. In Nazi Germany, we'd call it fascism. Here in the United States, we call it conservatism,? said Jesse Jackson years ago. There?s no evidence that he?s changed his mind. During the Florida mess he accused Bush of ?Nazi tactics? and suggested that Jeb Bush was deliberately targeting Holocaust victims, ?once again.?


During the debates over the Contract with America Rep. John Lewis read Martin Niemoller's timeless speech about the Nazi takeover: "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews ... trade unionists ... Catholics ... Protestants ..." And then with all the gravity he could muster he said, ?Read the Republican contract. They are coming for the children. They are coming for the poor. They are coming for the sick, the elderly, and the disabled.?

In addition to his comments that Bush used Nazi tactics and that Jeb targeted Holocaust survivors all over again, Jesse Jackson also said that he saw little to no difference between the Dred Scott case (which upheld slavery) and the Supreme Court decision stopping the Florida recounts.

Remember Ted Kennedy denouncing Robert Bork? He said that in Robert Bork?s America ??blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids.? In 1987, People for the American Way ran ads saying that Bork favored ?mass sterilization? and Gregory Peck hosted a commercial suggesting Bork favored restoring literacy tests and the poll tax.

But WE conservatives are the nasty ones?

RIIIIGHT.

 

[Salome]

For this thread to be anything BUT ugly would seem inappropriate to the question asked.

even though I admit that I posted this thread while being extremely pissed off (and it takes a lot to piss me off) because of certain comments I read in other threads

was that a wise decision?
maybe not,
another option was to forget I am a mod and just rip into the person who annoyed me

would that have been a better decision?
I think not

my last option was to just keep my mouth shut
again
would that solve anything?
this place does a nice enough job of getting out of control without any help of me or so called "loaded questions" from me

I asked what "free your mind" means to you
the reason why I asked it is because I genuinely feel some members do about anything they can think of in this forum except for being open to other people's believes, convictions etc etc
I added the part of "using it against you" because I was pissed off and because I actually would use it against anyone if I should ever get this pissed of again

 

[joyfulgirl]

sucking up to a mod

Well I for one appreciate your voice, Salome, and find you to be fair, tolerant and I like your dry sense of humour. Not many people could handle the abuse and nonsense that goes on in here any better.

And speaking of humour, one of the well-kept secrets here is that the Dutch on this forum have the best sense of humour (coughdrteethcough) but the word is starting to get out.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Re: sucking up to a mod

And speaking of humour, one of the well-kept secrets here is that the Dutch on this forum have the best sense of humour (coughdrteethcough) but the word is starting to get out.

yes, it is true. They're so funny, I have decided to route part of my trip through Holland just to see the crazy Dutchies. shhh, don't tell tho.

 

[Like someone to blame]

Am I the ONLY forum member who recalls Democrats accusing Republicans of WANTING to starve kids, kill the elder, and destroy the environment?

Geez, now that you mention it...I do indeed remember Republicans WANTING to starve kids, kill the elderly, and destroy the environment. Well, practice does make perfect...so eventually they might accomplish this. So much for compassionate conservatism...

p.s. that was some niffting spinning of my previous post, Bubba. Guess I won't be seeing you in the "No Spin Zone" anytime soon.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

*sigh*

gee, Rob, do ya really think that last post is going to make anyone who aligns themselves with either Republicanism or conservatism want to play nice with you? Honestly.

Quite frankly, I'm getting sick of all the shit being thrown around here. It stinketh.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Geez, now that you mention it...I do indeed remember Republicans WANTING to starve kids, kill the elderly, and destroy the environment. Well, practice does make perfect...so eventually they might accomplish this. So much for compassionate conservatism...

p.s. that was some niffting spinning of my previous post, Bubba. Guess I won't be seeing you in the "No Spin Zone" anytime soon.

I hope I'm missing the sarcasm, irony, and wit in this post - because it is galling (though not that surprising) to believe that a liberal in this forum would ACTUALLY believe that the GOP wants dead senior citizens and dirty air and water.

(I will also remind you that YESTERDAY you said this: "I will pledge to refrain from such over-the-top statements in the future...as long as we all understand that I'm not cowering from my beliefs...let's just say I'll try to be more 'tactful' and 'diplomatic'and dare I say 'polite'...which really is all I've wanted some of the conservative members here to embark upon as well.")


And Salome:

I don't think that we should be asked to be open-minded if open-mindedness includes accepting as a valid opinion idiotic statements like the one above. I adamantly refuse to look at statements like this and say, "Well you may have a point," because the author DOESN'T.

If that makes me close-minded, so be it.

 

[Rono]

Re: Re: sucking up to a mod

yes, it is true. They're so funny, I have decided to route part of my trip through Holland just to see the crazy Dutchies. shhh, don't tell tho.

,.....maybe it is a good reason for a dutch interference get together.

Anyway, this forum means for me :

- getting information about life issues ( Politics, Relgion )
- Getting insights about the difference between Republicans and Democrats.
- and if i feel myself strong enough to endure some beatings,..i post my thoughts about some topics because i feel the need to do so.

 

[rafmed]

I wonder how can one really come to think he OWNS the ultimate truth in everything, or the right to JUDGE which comment is idiotic or not, I'm sure that everyone comments are for some valuable and for others idiotic, thank god we are all diferent, and that we don't have to live under the same narrow mind that some seem to enjoy.
All I can say from my part is that tolerance is the first virtue needed to post in this forum, and that the world can be seen throw diferent eyes.
Oh, and that I only know that I don't know anything. As a wise men said many many years ago.

 

[Like someone to blame]

I wonder how can one really come to think he OWNS the ultimate truth in everything, or the right to JUDGE which comment is idiotic or not, I'm sure that everyone comments are for some valuable and for others idiotic, thank god we are all diferent, and that we don't have to live under the same narrow mind that some seem to enjoy.

That was well said, rafmed. I couldn't agree more.

Sula, I've given up on getting anyone from the "other" side to play honest with me...they are capable of it...just not interested...and I refuse to stand pat. You make it sound as if I'm the only one guilty of mudslinging...when in fact my views have personally been called "idiotic" (credit goes to Bubba on that one-multiple offender btw) and many other personal insults by my conservative foes. Don't recall seeing you chastise him in public...So...I'm only exercising my rights to self-defense because while the spin put on my Bubba and others is that I'm the root of this "evil" the facts are...they started it long before I came on the scene...I'm just an easy target for them...and that's fine...it makes for some good clean fun.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Ah, the All Opinions Are Valid school of thought.

Three problems with this belief:

1) To review:

- Rob seems to be accusing the Republican party of the attempted murder of the United States' senior citizens.

- I hold that the only difference between such an opinion and a bag of horseshit is the bag itself.

It strikes me as absurd that there's NOTHING wrong with Rob's opinion and everything wrong with mine.


2) Those like Rafmed claim to believe that "all opinions are valid," but they can't POSSIBLY mean it. Otherwise, they would never criticize anyone else's opinion. Ever.

What they really believe is "all opinions are valid, except for those that believe otherwise." That's a BIT different, and it seems like a very arbitrary line to draw.


3) In the end, nobody REALLY believes this brand of subjectivism, anyway.

Rafmed claims that "I only know that I don't know anything." I don't think he really believes it.

First, I bet he believes such obvious truths as "1+1=2." Beyond that, if someone wrongs Rafmed - takes something that belongs to him or lies about him - I bet he REALLY thinks that an objective moral law was actually broken.

Otherwise, most humans would never appeal to things like "fairness," would never try to explain to the other why his action was wrong.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Sula, I've given up on getting anyone from the "other" side to play honest with me...they are capable of it...just not interested...and I refuse to stand pat. You make it sound as if I'm the only one guilty of mudslinging...when in fact my views have personally been called "idiotic" (credit goes to Bubba on that one-multiple offender btw) and many other personal insults by my conservative foes. Don't recall seeing you chastise him in public...So...I'm only exercising my rights to self-defense because while the spin put on my Bubba and others is that I'm the root of this "evil" the facts are...they started it long before I came on the scene...I'm just an easy target for them...and that's fine...it makes for some good clean fun.

And what statement did I rightfully call idiotic?

THE ACCUSATION THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GUILTY OF THE ATTEMPTED MURDER OF SENIOR CITIZENS.

I quote: Geez, now that you mention it...I do indeed remember Republicans WANTING to starve kids, kill the elderly, and destroy the environment. Well, practice does make perfect...so eventually they might accomplish this. So much for compassionate conservatism...

It's not only idiotic, it's fucking absurd unless you can start giving some hard evidence.

And, um, "self-defense" is no excuse for a comment like the one you made.

 

[Like someone to blame]

Ah, Bubba, the true mettle of the man always rises to the top...how very Christian of you to throw out the f word when things aren't going your way...I have no respect for you...the little I had you just blew. I don't associate with individuals in my personal life who use such foul language...and I'm not about to converse with one here any further. You are only serving to give Christian conservatives a bad name with that sort of outburst and it sheds a lot of light on your character.

In closing, I would only add that many examples exist of Republican efforts to destroy the environment, starve kids, and hurt the elderly...I'm just not going to take the time to spell them out for you, well, ok...maybe just one for the road.......ANWAR.

Mods...am I mistaken or do I not recall reading somewhere in our user agreement that profanity would not be tolerated...maybe someone could reinforce this requirement to Bubba...I find his use of profanity most offensive. Thank you.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Okay. So me using the word "fuck" is MUCH MORE offensive than you accusing my political party of ATTEMPTED MURDER, an accusation you CONTINUE to put forward

What the fuck is wrong with you?

(As an aside, to say that drilling in ANWR may hurt the environment is a BIT different than saying that the GOP wants to drill IN ORDER TO hurt the environment. Either way, I have no idea how drilling in ANWR leads to starving kids and dead grandmothers. I'd appreciate it if you could connect the dots.)

In conclusion, I don't care that you've lost all respect for me.

You have repeatedly stated that my political party WANTS to kill the elderly, starve children, and destroy the planet.

How much respect could you have had to begin with?

 

[verte76]

I probably shouldn't post here........I don't like controversy, and damn, this is war! We had a hellacious political dispute on another U2 discussion list. U.S. liberals and conservatives were really spitting on each other. It was depressing. I mean, I can think someone's opinion isn't necessarily right, as in correct, but also isn't necessarily immoral. I don't smell ulterior motives on either side. Maybe it's because I was a philosophy minor in school and couldn't have passed my courses if I'd been crystallized in my beliefs. I'm a practicing Catholic and I took a religion class taught by an agnostic, which was full of various and sundry forms of skeptics. I was allowed to write my term paper on a traditional Catholic topic, which I won't bore you with (it's a very dense theological argument from the early Middle Ages). Now mind you, I had to argue both sides of the dispute. I couldn't just use my opinion and not do any research. I couldn't exactly scream "heretic" at the other side. I would have flunked the hell out of the thing. That's sort of what I think of when I think of "freeing your mind".
Catholics using the word "hell" and not meaning it literally? You bet. You should have heard the priest who confirmed me at our Pentecost party.

 

[z edge]

...I just sincerely believe it is more prevalent amongst the GOP-nationally and in this forum.

but what is currently going on in this forum?
who is the one that is stirring all of the shite here?

It never fails that when I watch a politically oriented show that 9 times out of 10 the Republican starts the "attack".

You've obviously never watched a liberal show.... example PI with Bill Maher

A fine example of this is just last night on MSNBC's "Donahue". Donahue devoted his entire show to discussing the Patriot Act...and hands down his right wing guest Mr. May of some conservative public interest group whose only goal is to strip us of our civil liberties and turn America into a quasi police state was aggressive, nasty and relentless as he berated everyone from a civil liberties attorney to a poor middle aged Muslim woman whose husband has been illegally detained since October...with no charges brought against him...other than being Muslim. Mr. May "personally attacked" the civil liberties attorney and insulted this innocent Middle Eastern woman on national TV. He showed an inability to debate without making it personal...that is what burns me. It was compassionate conservatism at it's best.

SO you are mad at all 6-7 conservatives in this forum cause of a damn tv show???

Grow up son

The record will show that I've tried extending an "olive branch" and striking a concilliatory chord with some conservative members...

ohhhhhhh.........you mean like you are doing right now with Bubba?
some olive branch

and that by and large I've never challenged their intellect (one exception being z edge-who shows no interest in being polite).

after 130 posts, you know everything about me?

Two wrongs don't make a right...

yet you continue these attacks against conservatives for what????

but in my mind I'm challenging the perception that us liberals are "whimmpy".

and who said that?
you are being presumptious

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". I am reminded of this verse daily...especially when I'm visiting this forum. I think all Christians here can appreciate the fact that our sinful human ways get the best of us from time to time...so understand that many times it would be better for me (and others too) to "walk away" from the fight...instead of jumping right in. Satan wins some of the battles, too...regrettably.

Rob

ANd who is it that you are comparing to Satan?????

elaborate please.

I hope you are not twisting my religion around to fit your little arguement

You are bring hypocritical

everyone can see it

You have done a fine job of proving your point to everyone but yourself

 

[z edge]

Well, I'm glad you aren't surprised. I often feel the mods and admins are responsible for some of the negative comments in these forums. Often, admins are all to quick to close a thread, simply because they do not approve of it. This creates additional hostility and does not allow for a healthy discussion where issues can be resolved. While some threads need to be closed, I have often thought some mods/admins were a little too "trigger-happy" with their power. Additionally, the mods/admins are just as guilty of instigating nasty comments or prolonging negative discussions as they will make little side comments, post confusing smileys or ask loaded questions, like the one asked here in this thread, cause strong negative reactions. For this thread to be anything BUT ugly would seem inappropriate to the question asked.

Therefore, if you want to "clean up" Interference, lead by example.

Very well said Doctorwho!

I will say that in the past few weeks that I have seen all the mods concentrate more on fairness

 

[z edge]

even though I admit that I posted this thread while being extremely pissed off (and it takes a lot to piss me off) because of certain comments I read in other threads

was that a wise decision?
maybe not,
another option was to forget I am a mod and just rip into the person who annoyed me

would that have been a better decision?
I think not

my last option was to just keep my mouth shut
again
would that solve anything?
this place does a nice enough job of getting out of control without any help of me or so called "loaded questions" from me

I asked what "free your mind" means to you
the reason why I asked it is because I genuinely feel some members do about anything they can think of in this forum except for being open to other people's believes, convictions etc etc
I added the part of "using it against you" because I was pissed off and because I actually would use it against anyone if I should ever get this pissed of again

Perhaps if you are really that pissed at some individual then perhaps you should use some method of telling them so they know.

I think asking this question with the sole intention of using it against this individual is probably taking the low road

 

[Achtung Bubba]

You are Z Man, z edge.

If I may, an analogy.

There is a difference between killing civilians and WANTING to kill civilians. The difference is one of intent. The vast majority of the time, the United States military does not WANT to kill civilians, does not intentionally kill civilians, and does its best to avoid doing so while still accomplishing its military objectives.

On other hand, the terrorists that sent passenger jets into the World Trade Center WANTED TO KILL CIVILIANS. They and their leadership gloried in the possibility of killing as many innocent lives as possible.


What does this have to do with the conversation at hand?

Well, I believe that even IF Republican policies hurt the environment, children, and the elderly, that such damage is NEVER the intent. There are NO "Republican efforts to destroy the environment, starve kids, and hurt the elderly."

To suggest otherwise, to suggest that we INTENTIONALLY plan the deaths of senior citizens is to suggest that we are simply evil - at LEAST as evil as the al Queda terrorists.

Rob, you ARE repeatedly making such an accusation, and it is FAR, FAR more offensive than my use of any profanity.

 

[z edge]

You are Z Man, z edge.

If I may, an analogy.

There is a difference between killing civilians and WANTING to kill civilians. The difference is one of intent. The vast majority of the time, the United States military does not WANT to kill civilians, does not intentionally kill civilians, and does its best to avoid doing so while still accomplishing its military objectives.

YES! How nice of someone to insinuate that we enjoy killing babies. Thanks! Anyone with half a brain who wants to know the truth please ask me about it.

One more time for those who don't know

z edge=army veteran / current government air force civilian

On other hand, the terrorists that sent passenger jets into the World Trade Center WANTED TO KILL CIVILIANS. They and their leadership gloried in the possibility of killing as many innocent lives as possible.

once again correct
even my ( a liberal) mother is supporting Bush and was shocked into disbelief as the nature of these bastards has unveiled, including on the news program where they foiled a plot to blow up 10 Boeing 747's ( in 95 or 96) and had her thinking aloud "i dont care what happend to those people (terrorists)"

What does this have to do with the conversation at hand?

Well, I believe that even IF Republican policies hurt the environment, children, and the elderly, that such damage is NEVER the intent. There are NO "Republican efforts to destroy the environment, starve kids, and hurt the elderly."

To suggest otherwise, to suggest that we INTENTIONALLY plan the deaths of senior citizens is to suggest that we are simply evil - at LEAST as evil as the al Queda terrorists.

Rob, you ARE repeatedly making such an accusation, and it is FAR, FAR more offensive than my use of any profanity.

AMEN Bubba

 

[diamond]

ROBBIE PLEZ TAKE HEED...

MrSomeoneRobbieToBlame-
Please be more openminded as you encourage us Republican folk to be.
Thank you-
DB9
:idea:

 

[rafmed]

Ah, the All Opinions Are Valid school of thought.

Three problems with this belief:

1)

2) Those like Rafmed claim to believe that "all opinions are valid," but they can't POSSIBLY mean it. Otherwise, they would never criticize anyone else's opinion. Ever.

What they really believe is "all opinions are valid, except for those that believe otherwise." That's a BIT different, and it seems like a very arbitrary line to draw.


3) In the end, nobody REALLY believes this brand of subjectivism, anyway.

Rafmed claims that "I only know that I don't know anything." I don't think he really believes it.

First, I bet he believes such obvious truths as "1+1=2." Beyond that, if someone wrongs Rafmed - takes something that belongs to him or lies about him - I bet he REALLY thinks that an objective moral law was actually broken.

Otherwise, most humans would never appeal to things like "fairness," would never try to explain to the other why his action was wrong.

2) To disagree doesn't mean to disrespect, I never said one can't criticize a position or a point of view, or in your case, many times your "dogmas" or your infalible "truth", if you can't accept that people around the world can have another opinions and point of views, then what is the point in a forum like this one?

3) You obviously have no idea what "I only know that I don't know anything" was meant for.

In any case, the first to state that I'm not perfect or have the ultimate truth, its me, obviously not your case, maybe you need that the world work exactly and perfectly by your own set of rules, and if someone disagree with you, seems like the cosmic order may be broken, seriously I think this is a place to share opinions not to preach.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Upon second consideration - and talking with my girlfriend, if you must know the truth of it - I have come to the conclusion that my reaction to Rob's posts were not in any way a Christian reaction.

Rob accused a political party, the party to which I am affiliated, of conspiring to kill the old, starve the young, and destroy the planet - he accused my party of being evil.

I should have turned the other cheek, and I did not. I should have not used any profanities, called the comment idiotic, or even defended my party from such accusations.

In defense of my behavior, I would ask all of you to consider whether you could have held your tongue given such comments. I would also ask, before you accuse me of constantly behaving this way, consider how I've acted in the religion threads; when I have faced opinions that were very different to my own - different, but well-reasoned and certainly not offensive - I have been more than capable of maintaining a very civil debate.

But for my actions here, I apologize.

In the end, I ask only two things. First, I ask that everyone would consider how offensive Rob's accusation really is and refrain from such an accusation unless there is an avanlanche of evidence to suggest otherwise. Second, I ask the moderators to consider equating such an accusation to the use of the "Nazi" epithet - a word that Elvis has already criticized in detail.

If that is not going to happen, I would appreciate the moderators telling us as quickly as possible, so that we conservative Republicans can reconsider whether the discussions in this forum are worth the cost of subjecting ourselves to this openly hostile environment.

Either way, I sincerely apologize and pledge to improve my control of my temper.

 

[Astroboy]

father told me humans acted rather strangely

 

[verte76]

Hey, Bubba, it happens to the best of us. I can see how you lost it. I can see why you'd be upset at that sort of accusation. I admit to being, uh, more leftist in my political views than you are, but I'd never say that about conservative Republicans. I'm capable of lighting a few fireworks upon occasion myself. Sometimes I get peeved at my fellow liberals, and yes, sometimes I get peeved at conservatives. But accusing someone of blatantly plotting to kill or whatever isn't something I'd ever do. I'm glad you've settled on the right thing to do--i agree with you there---but don't judge yourself too harshly. At the end of a day we're all flesh and blood.

 

[U2Bama]

In closing, I would only add that many examples exist of Republican efforts to destroy the environment, starve kids, and hurt the elderly...I'm just not going to take the time to spell them out for you, well, ok...maybe just one for the road.......ANWAR.

What about the Alaskan Democrats and the labor union people who support drilling in ANWR? Does this mean they are joining in on the effort to destroy the environment, starve kids, and hurt the elderly?

And conversely, does that mean that the entire bi-partisan delegation of Florida, along with their Republican governor and House & Senate, want to save the environment, feed kids, and heal the elderly, since they are opposed to drilling in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico, whilst Alabama and Mississippi's Democratic governors and bi-partisan delegation (except for Bachus) WANT to drill in the region?

Forget about it; I agree with Sula here:

Originally posted by Sulawesigirl4
Quite frankly, I'm getting sick of all the shit being thrown around here. It stinketh.

I have friends on both sides of the aisle in this forum, but the anger being thrown about is depressing. Maybe I really should "take my ball and go home." Or at least take my BEACH ball and go float in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico.

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

Re: Re: Re: hoo haaaaa

don't you be goin' nowhere, mister! yours is a refreshing voice in here.

You don't have to call me "mister," ma'am; THE WHOLE WORLD CALLS ME HANK!

I will be back. One day.