what do you think "free your mind" means?

[Like someone to blame]

umm, now honestly. Do you really truly think this attack on one "group" was called for? Quite frankly, I have seen my share of both conservative and liberal posters stooping to low levels, and singling out the opposite "side" (as you are doing in this case) simply shows your inability to rise above partisanship.

I really don't consider this an "attack" Sula. I really don't. From my perspective I'm simply calling it as I see it. With very few exceptions, those conservatives who frequently comment in this forum are truly arrogant and pretentious. I sincerely believe this. Granted, we are probably only talking about 7-10 members (and I suspect it may be fewer than this if multiple user names are considered) but the facts speak for themselves. More often than not, the moderate-liberal members of this forum are polite and remain above the fray. I believe this can be verified. If time permitted, I could run out countless examples of some prominent conservative forum members acting like spoiled little brats...the "I'm taking my ball home" mentality. I would be hard pressed to find many liberal forum members who resort to such actions.

I'm not suggessting this sort of "punch/counterpunch" doesn't occur on both sides...it is just far more rampant in the conservative ranks of this forum and it truly does mirror the majority of the Republicans in Congress...those "compasssionate" conservatives who are always touting the virtures of Christianity yet routinely forget the teachings of the very Savior whose name they routinely invoke. Extremely hypocritical.

As far as my "inability to rise above partisianship" goes...I've never been interested in rising above it. I hold strong convictions on the progressive left of the political spectrum (you know this)and make no apologies about this to any one. It's unlikely any rightwinger will change my mind...and vice versa. In fact, with exceptions, the majority of forum members who routinely comment in this forum are unabashedly partisian...and I have no problem with this. Partisianship really isn't the issue here...personal conduct is...and I feel that this clearly is a problem more prevalent with the rightwingers here than the left.

Maybe this is just all a case of a few bad apples leaving a blemish on the majority who know how to actually debate an issue and discuss ideas in an adult, civil manner. (Sula-you are gifted at this and I commend you for it!) But frankly, it sickens me that there are some here who cannot seem to resist the urge to take the focus off the discussion of ideas and issues and lead us down a path littered with sarcastic, preposterous remarks whose only intent is self-gratification. Reread a couple of comments before this one to see what I'm getting at. Is this what "Free Your Mind" is really all about? I think not.

I believe that some members here are less interested in talking about the subject matter and more interested in how many "points' they can score with their conservative bretheran, i.e. who can come up with the best one-liner of the night. Any respect I had for them is out the window...doesn't matter if the comment was directed at me or another forum member. Just gives me a little inkling into the type of individual they are.

Back to Salome's original question about "Free Your Mind". It is by and large a great forum to visit...with the exception of a few bad apples who lack the appropriate social skills necessary for a lively, engaging, and yes...."civil" debate...null and void of those sarcastic comments that only serve to pump up their "manly egos".

 

[z edge]

<-------

That scared me; I was afraid you were going to tell me "we are going to soon be compiling an actual list of Free Your Mind interferencers who should be deleted."

probably already been done

 

[verte76]

To me, "free your mind" means giving up any and all preconceived notions, looking at each situation independently, and coming to a conclusion based on what you see and think and feel. You can't come up with an honest opinion without emotion in some cases, contrary to what some people think. *That's* a preconceived notion! If you had Belief X five minutes prior to getting yourself in a situation you may have to give up Belief X to make sense out of it. It might be too constraining and screw up your judgment. The idea is to not constrain yourself.

 

[Salome]

thanks to eveyone who gave their opinion on this subject

as Sicy said, a list of rulles for FYM is being compiled

so also a "thank you" to those who have proven we need a special set of rules in here (however childish more rules may seem)

 

[follower]

Salome,

without reading the whole thread...I?ll take the risk to answer...maybe

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery???

Okay, back to the shadows follower

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I really don't consider this an "attack" Sula. I really don't. From my perspective I'm simply calling it as I see it. With very few exceptions, those conservatives who frequently comment in this forum are truly arrogant and pretentious. I sincerely believe this. Granted, we are probably only talking about 7-10 members (and I suspect it may be fewer than this if multiple user names are considered) but the facts speak for themselves. More often than not, the moderate-liberal members of this forum are polite and remain above the fray. I believe this can be verified. If time permitted, I could run out countless examples of some prominent conservative forum members acting like spoiled little brats...the "I'm taking my ball home" mentality. I would be hard pressed to find many liberal forum members who resort to such actions.

I'm not suggessting this sort of "punch/counterpunch" doesn't occur on both sides...it is just far more rampant in the conservative ranks of this forum and it truly does mirror the majority of the Republicans in Congress...those "compasssionate" conservatives who are always touting the virtures of Christianity yet routinely forget the teachings of the very Savior whose name they routinely invoke. Extremely hypocritical.

Wow. Looks like somebody's hiding behind his internet persona as an excuse to launch attacks against those who disagree with him.

Good thing you're not a conservative!

Look:

You berate conservatives for making personal attacks.

You then personally attack conservatives, calling them hypocrites and betrayers of their faith - arrogant and pretentious "brats" - while claiming to NOT making an attack.

That makes YOU a hypocrite and a liar - and not very good at either.


(The NERVE! How the hell can you simultaneously call us hypocritical brats AND claim to be "above the fray"?)


I can speak for no one else, but I admit that I am not the most consistent Christian on planet Earth - that I let my temper get the best of me, and that that temper is occasionally tied to my own personal pride rather than an upholding of the truth.

But that, first of all, does not make Christianity itself wrong. I know you weren't suggesting that, but I want to make clear to non-believers that the disharmony between Christian teachings and my life are evidence of MY short-comings, not Christianity.

Second, even if I should hold my tongue on some comments, that does not make the comments I make any less TRUE. Some of the things said here ARE idiotic: the assertions that the Pledge of Allegiance is "clearly" unconstititutional, that George Washington was as bad (or worse) as Yassir Arafat, and that the liberals in this forum are "polite and above the fray" come immediately to mind.

(And, generally speaking, I try to be as precise as possible in my "name-calling." If I call someone ignorant, I usually mean in the literal sense - that they do not know what they are talking about.)

There are certain beliefs that can certainly be impugned here, beliefs that SHOULD be blasted to kingdom come, such as the belief that one race is inherently superior to another or that the Holocaust never happened. Why shouldn't we be free to blast other idiotic ideas that happen to come from the extreme left?

And while we're on the subject of Christianity, Jesus Christ Himself called people hypocrites, thieves, fools, and vipers.

How was this possible? How could the perfect Messiah call people names? Well, Christians believe Christ exhibited righteous anger, the "wrath of God" that is angered at things people SHOULD get angry about.

Certainly, we Christians must be VERY careful to allow only righteous anger into our hearts - to discern between affronts to our own pride and affronts to TRUTH. But anger in itself is not always a bad thing.

Bubba


PS - I actually go by "Bubba" in real life, and I never use other identities in this forum; there is very little hiding behind internet personas on the part of THIS angry conservative.

How 'bout you?


PPS - Salome, a list of rules is a commendable idea, but I ask for two things:

1) The ability to continue to call things as they are. If a comment is racist, misinformed or anti-American, we should have the freedom to call it such.

2) Equal application of whatever rules are made. If conservatives are to be asked not to call others idiots, liberals MUST be asked to not call us hypocrites, fascists, etc.

 

[Like someone to blame]

Well, Bubba, in true conservative fashion you managed to personally insult me 3 -4 times in your diatribe. Do you feel better now?

I personally DO remain above the fray because I choose not to personally insult your viewpoints...oh, I disagree with them most vigorously but I am confident in stating that I don't call other forum members "idiots" or other choice words simply because I don't agree with them. I admit to using language in some of my posts that may incite an angry response...but I refrain from personally attacking the other member in rebuttal. Nothing is gained from such actions. It is this notion of "personal attacks" that angers me most about some of the conservative members here. Look, I've nothing against anyone expressing their views here and of course there are going to be occasions where the passion one feels on an issue interjects itself into the dialogue but I simply have no use for the self-serving comments that are intended to illicit nothing more than a jolly good laugh from the posters' "buddies" in the forum.

Let me address your remarks about Christianity: Your post suggests that I am somehow a non-believer. This couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I was saved (born again) at the age of 8 in the church that at the time was being pastored by (coincidentally) our very own forum member Spiral Staircase's father, Pastor Joe. This was an evangelical/baptist church. I'm now 30...and the Lord and my Christian beliefs are more important to me now than ever. My father is an elder in the church we attend now...an evangelical free church and needless to say I was raised in a wonderful Christian home...brought up on Biblical principles...the whole nine yards. I just find it laughable that there is this perception that if you are "saved" that somehow you are automatically lumped into the conservative right movement. To take it further...the perception exists that you are somehow "less" of a Christian or "not truly a believer" if you somehow disagree with the conservative right's agenda. My point is that these Christian conservatives routinely invoke our Savior's name...yet routinely embarrass it. As if "God is a Republican" or something crazy like that.

In many respects, while a self-described progressive liberal (and I'm not ashamed of this) I'm more conservative on the issue of separation of church/state than most conservatives. I truly believe the framers intended the two should not be merged...yet everyday conservatives in this country are blurring the lines between church and state...I am a strick separatist on this issue...I don't enjoy it when my pastor invokes his conservative political beliefs during his sermons...the pulpit is not the place for it. Nor is it appropriate in my opinion for a pastor who holds liberal beliefs to do the same. In any case...I thought you may be interested in this....

I don't advocate you or any other member from holding their tongue in a debate...just keep things on the up and up is all I ask. Inflammatory remarks will undoubtedly occur...as long as they are not personal I have no problem with them...I really don't.

As far as "hiding" behind the very internet persona I criticize...I mean, all of us here do that to varying degrees...it's just part of being "connected" on the web. A clearer explanation of this may be that I just feel that it is easy to launch personal attacks in this format...much more difficult in person, face to face or in a room filled with casual observers. So to this extent, yes, I feel that some members here utilize the "behind the scenes" nature of the internet to take personal pot shots at others. I could tell you my "real" world name...but what difference/importance is that to you in the big picture? Short of providing you with my personal data sheet, an 8x12 photo, and inviting you to my next church supper you can argue that I'm still "hiding". I personally don't think I'm guilty of hiding...I've attended multiple U2 concerts...met a number of fellow forum members there...maintain e-mail contact with many...etc etc. Everyone that reads this forum knows where I stand on most of the issues (to the left) and understands that while I may engage in some pretty heavy rhetoric and hyperbole from time to time I generally avoid sarcastic remarks and the like. Not trying to say I'm better than anyone else...just trying to let you know that people here know more about me than you may think and that short of taking the steps I mentioned earlier I'm not sure how more "open" I could be.

Bubba, you are a worthy adversary on the other side of the issues...much like diamond and some of the others. I have no personal hatred towards you...I don't always like the manner and tone in which you respond to differing viewpoints...but I'm sure you don't always like mine either. You have demonstrated an ability to articulate on your thoughts here and I genuinely enjoy reading your comments because they are a)well thought out and b) passionate. Your thoughts are flawed in my opinion...but it doesn't make you an idiot. It just makes you wrong

Rob

 

[diamond]

See.
Now thats the tone.
See how nice Robbie plays
Oops I meant Rob.
Hoo
Hah-
DB9

 

[Sicy]

bubba and like.. calm please.

as Sicy said, a list of rulles for FYM is being compiled

The rules will be for all forums.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Rob, you do NOT remain "above the fray." In that one post, you launched the following attacks (insults in red):

With very few exceptions, those conservatives who frequently comment in this forum are truly arrogant and pretentious.

If time permitted, I could run out countless examples of some prominent conservative forum members acting like spoiled little brats...the "I'm taking my ball home" mentality.

You then said we were "extremely hypocritical" and that we "litter" our posts with "sarcastic, preposterous remarks whose only intent is self-gratification." True, you never used the actual term "idiot," but those comments are AT LEAST as insulting.

 

[zonelistener]

hoo haaaaa

Display your ignorance

Soooo true.

For me, I would see it as a place to find a good argument between Bubba and Melon with no point other than to argue.

A place to catch up on the latest Douchetastic stuff from Lemonite.

And, a place to read humor-filled reposnses from Bama (still one of the best posters on Interference.)

 

[Like someone to blame]

Bubba:

I don't consider those statements to be "personal" in nature, i.e. I didn't attach a specific conservative member's name to the statements or suggest they were somehow ignorant...which IMHO makes it personal. I was speaking more to the fact that I felt the tone of their posts were arrogant and pretentious and that their responses mirrored those of "spoiled little brats".

I do believe that some posts are littered with "sarcastic" remarks whose only intent is "self-gratification". Was I a little heavy on the hyperbole? Admittedly so.

Most people like scoring points in favor of their views in any debate...you and I are no different. I've read your posts for many months now...you have the ability to score points based on the merits of the argument without needlessly having to get involved in the "attack dog" mentality that I believe is so prevalent here. You are a fierce competitor and I like that about you, Bubba-I just don't think you (or I or others) need to resort to making some of the remarks that you (and I or others) do to get our respective points across.

I can see how these statements may be construed as personal in nature, however, and I sincerely apologize to you if you felt that way. I will pledge to refrain from such over-the-top statements in the future...as long as we all understand that I'm not cowering from my beliefs...let's just say I'll try to be more "tactful" and "diplomatic"and dare I say "polite"...which really is all I've wanted some of the conservative members here to embark upon as well.

Rob

 

[joyfulgirl]

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery???

follower, this is the best thing I've read in FYM since...well, maybe ever

 

[z edge]

...but I refrain from personally attacking the other member in rebuttal. Nothing is gained from such actions. It is this notion of "personal attacks" that angers me most about some of the conservative members here. Look, I've nothing against anyone expressing their views here and of course there are going to be occasions where the passion one feels on an issue interjects itself into the dialogue but I simply have no use for the self-serving comments that are intended to illicit nothing more than a jolly good laugh from the posters' "buddies" in the forum.

I have issues with your post here. Your attacks on me yesterday and today are only because I silenced you on a different issue. You are carrying this over and around the forum and it need to cease.

Also you made personal attacks against me to which I provide proof:

stay tuned

 

[diamond]

For The Record-
Once Robbie called me a fathead, but then he called me beloved in the same sentence.
So i was ok w that
But it was not in FYM.
It was about the Bos DVD,
Ok
goodbye-
DB9

 

[Like someone to blame]

Your attacks on me yesterday and today are only because I silenced you on a different issue.

LMAO!
I think your future lies in the stand up comic ranks young apprentice!

 

[z edge]

LMAO!
I think your future lies in the stand up comic ranks young apprentice!

LMFAO

thank you
psssssssssssssssssss....
i'm older than you btw

 

[follower]

follower, this is the best thing I've read in FYM since...well, maybe ever

So maybe we both should thank good old Bob Marley, there in heaven...Redemption Song is my fave Marley song...and that line says it all along with the next one...

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"

ugly thread, btw...

 

[joyfulgirl]

So maybe we both should thank good old Bob Marley, there in heaven...Redemption Song is my fave Marley song...and that line says it all along with the next one...

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"

I love that! Being a slave to the mind is suffocating to the soul.

 

[DrTeeth]

I like "We're Jamming" better.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I like "We're Jamming" better.

lol..I like "We're Jamming" better sung by a friend of mine who sings it in a really corny big Broadway voice...hilarious

 

[U2Bama]

Re: hoo haaaaa

And, a place to read humor-filled reposnses from Bama (still one of the best posters on Interference.)

Well, thank you, zonelistener! I was just about to "take my ball home" until I read your compliment! And I even like the picture of you molesting the little statue, though it frightens me.

~U2Alabama

 

[Salome]

ugly thread, btw...

I would have to agree
wish I could say I'm surprised by it

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Well, Salome, ask a loaded question...

 

[Rono]

Damn, i am stuck in my mind,......

 

[hiphop]

...those "compasssionate" conservatives who are always touting the virtures of Christianity yet routinely forget the teachings of the very Savior whose name they routinely invoke. Extremely hypocritical.

Agreed. Can?t be mentioned often enough.

 

[hiphop]

So maybe we both should thank good old Bob Marley, there in heaven...Redemption Song is my fave Marley song...and that line says it all along with the next one...

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"

"Have no fear for atomic energy
?Cause none of them can stop the time
How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look
Some say its just a part of it
We?ve got to fulfil the book"

- - not to mention the first verse. I dig "Jamming" too, btw.


(This thread should end with everyone saying)

One Love

 

[babble]

Free Your Mind....I think, as others have pointed out, it means to let go of ignorant preconceived notions, become more educated on different subjects and come to an understanding of different viewpoints. I think that's the whole purpose of this forum....to learn from each other and even if we don't agree to at least understand that not everyone feels the same way we do and see their reasons for believing the way they do.

Learning is the reason I first came here I suppose because sometimes, when I'm reading the newspaper or just thinking about different things, I just can't imagine why certain people think the way they do and why they believe certain things. So I think coming on this forum where there are a wide range of beliefs and ideas, I can read posts by or have a discussion with a person who might have a completely different viewpoint as me and I can come to understand ,to a certain degree, their beliefs. For instance, I knew nothing about Satanism until Ravenstar posted about it. Though I don't agree with her beliefs as they are completely opposite of my Christian beliefs, at least I can have some understanding of where she is coming from and the next time I hear about Satanism, images of animal sacrifices won't pop into my head.

I do think that it's unfortunate that there is so much political prejudiceness on both sides in this forum (and in real life) and I think both sides are equally as guilty. I guess we're all a little guilty of it because I think in our society ,in America at least, you have to be one or the other and the one has to dislike and never agree with the other. Someone to blame, I think if you go back to some of your previous posts and replace the word conservative with African American, Hispanic, or Jew it might help you to understand why some conservatives took such offense to your remarks. I think if you spend enough time here it is quite apparant that both conservatives and liberals are equally guilty of being nasty and hypocritical and neither group of people should be singled out as being the bad guys.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Re: Re: hoo haaaaa

Well, thank you, zonelistener! I was just about to "take my ball home" until I read your compliment! And I even like the picture of you molesting the little statue, though it frightens me.

~U2Alabama

don't you be goin' nowhere, mister! yours is a refreshing voice in here.

 

[Like someone to blame]

Someone to blame, I think if you go back to some of your previous posts and replace the word conservative with African American, Hispanic, or Jew it might help you to understand why some conservatives took such offense to your remarks. I think if you spend enough time here it is quite apparant that both conservatives and liberals are equally guilty of being nasty and hypocritical and neither group of people should be singled out as being the bad guys.

babble:

I appreciate your comments. I agree that both sides are guilty of being nasty and hypocritical...I just sincerely believe it is more prevalent amongst the GOP-nationally and in this forum. It never fails that when I watch a politically oriented show that 9 times out of 10 the Republican starts the "attack". A fine example of this is just last night on MSNBC's "Donahue". Donahue devoted his entire show to discussing the Patriot Act...and hands down his right wing guest Mr. May of some conservative public interest group whose only goal is to strip us of our civil liberties and turn America into a quasi police state was aggressive, nasty and relentless as he berated everyone from a civil liberties attorney to a poor middle aged Muslim woman whose husband has been illegally detained since October...with no charges brought against him...other than being Muslim. Mr. May "personally attacked" the civil liberties attorney and insulted this innocent Middle Eastern woman on national TV. He showed an inability to debate without making it personal...that is what burns me. It was compassionate conservatism at it's best.

The record will show that I've tried extending an "olive branch" and striking a concilliatory chord with some conservative members...and that by and large I've never challenged their intellect (one exception being z edge-who shows no interest in being polite).

Two wrongs don't make a right...but in my mind I'm challenging the perception that us liberals are "whimmpy". I don't have to lay down and "take it" from the aggressive and relentless attacks from some on the right. I prefer to keep things on the up and up...but I can sling mud with the best of them if I need to. I have no problem taking the lead on this and being the "whipping boy". In the end, I prefer to see a more civil and cordial tone amongst us here with one big BUT...if the attack dogs come out first then us liberals here need to respond accordingly and not passively refrain from expressing our thoughts...which I think happens nationally and yes, in here from time to time.

There are some truly intelligent members here from all sides of the political spectrum...diamond, U2Bama, Bubba, Spiral Staircase, Melon, whenhiphopdrovethebigcars (love that name btw), Sula, Salome, whiteflag, joyfulgirl, and many others who bring a lot to the table in this particular forum. I enjoy hearing all of their thoughts and I ultimately am striving to simply add my own to the mix...hopefully in a manner that does not insult anyone's intelligence or get carried away with excessive hyperbole and over-the-topness.

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". I am reminded of this verse daily...especially when I'm visiting this forum. I think all Christians here can appreciate the fact that our sinful human ways get the best of us from time to time...so understand that many times it would be better for me (and others too) to "walk away" from the fight...instead of jumping right in. Satan wins some of the battles, too...regrettably.

Rob