WH knew NO would flood *before* Katrina hit - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-24-2006, 12:29 PM   #1
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,370
Local Time: 09:09 PM
WH knew NO would flood *before* Katrina hit

but i thought no one anticipated the breach of the levees!?!?!?!



[q]White House Was Told Hurricane Posed Danger

By ERIC LIPTON
Published: January 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 - The White House was told in the hours before Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans that the city would probably soon be inundated with floodwater, forcing the long-term relocation of hundreds of thousands of people, documents to be released Tuesday by Senate investigators show.

A Homeland Security Department report submitted to the White House at 1:47 a.m. on Aug. 29, hours before the storm hit, said, "Any storm rated Category 4 or greater will likely lead to severe flooding and/or levee breaching."

The internal department documents, which were forwarded to the White House, contradict statements by President Bush and the homeland security secretary, Michael Chertoff, that no one expected the storm protection system in New Orleans to be breached.

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," Mr. Bush said in a television interview on Sept. 1. "Now we're having to deal with it, and will."


Other documents to be released Tuesday show that the weekend before Hurricane Katrina made landfall, Homeland Security Department officials predicted that its impact would be worse than a doomsday-like emergency planning exercise conducted in Louisiana in July 2004.

In that drill, held because of common knowledge that New Orleans was susceptible to hurricane-driven flooding, emergency planners predicted that in a Category 3 storm, one million people would be forced to move away, 17 percent of the nation's oil refining capacity would be knocked out and as many as 60,000 lives might be lost.

"Exercise projection is exceeded by Hurricane Katrina real-life impacts," the Aug. 27 department report said, two days before the storm hit New Orleans.

The loss of life in Hurricane Katrina was far less - at least 1,350 deaths have been confirmed so far - but the estimated number of dislocated residents was not far off.

A White House spokesman, asked about the seeming contradiction between Mr. Bush's statement on Sept. 1 and the warning as the storm approached, said the president meant to say that once the storm passed and it initially looked as if New Orleans had gotten through the hurricane without catastrophic damage, no one anticipated at that point that the levees would be breached.

The Senate investigators have also found evidence that at least some federal and state officials were aware last summer that the hurricane evacuation planning in the New Orleans area was incomplete.

"We're at less than 10 percent done with this trans planning when you consider the buses and the people," said a summary of a July briefing held with local, state and federal officials regarding a possible hurricane in Louisiana and referring to transportation planning. "If you think soup lines in the Depression were long, wait til you see the lines at these collection points," the summary said, referring to buses that were supposed to help pick up people to evacuate New Orleans.

Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, who is chairwoman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said that despite such evidence, officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency had told investigators that leading up to Hurricane Katrina they believed that local and state governments could handle the evacuation on their own.

"It is another example of a lack of coordination and planning and a disconnect between what the FEMA officials' perception was and what the reality was facing state and local officials," Ms. Collins said.

Separately Monday, a Democrat on the House committee that is also investigating Hurricane Katrina urged Representative Thomas M. Davis III, Republican of Virginia, who is the chairman of the House inquiry, to enforce a subpoena presented to Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld for documents related to the storm.

The Democrat, Representative Charlie Melancon of Louisiana, said in a letter that recent interviews by House investigators had produced evidence that "the Defense Department frustrated FEMA's attempts to get this aid delivered to the stricken region," and that the documents from the Pentagon were necessary to address the accusations.

A Defense Department spokesman declined to comment on the letter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/24/na...erland&emc=rss
[/q]
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
Old 01-24-2006, 12:41 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,601
Local Time: 09:09 PM


But he meant to say...

I wish someone had asked him about this at that town meeting
__________________

MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 12:44 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
The internal department documents, which were forwarded to the White House, contradict statements by President Bush and the homeland security secretary, Michael Chertoff, that no one expected the storm protection system in New Orleans to be breached.
I thought that the leeve system was designed to withstand up to Catagory 3 and everyone knew it. At least, I've had that in my head since before the storm actually hit....
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:16 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2Girl1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the altar of the dark star
Posts: 19,374
Local Time: 08:09 PM
I thought there was another article out where it states Bush didn't pass a law(?) 2 years ago to fix the levee?
U2Girl1978 is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:17 PM   #5
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 06:09 PM
Maybe it was one of those historical memos, though....

AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:34 PM   #6
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 17,958
Local Time: 09:09 PM
WAIT.

Bush was dishonest in a public statement?

NO!!!
anitram is online now  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:47 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41
Maybe it was one of those historical memos, though....

It was stuck in the pile with the "Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened" memo....
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:50 PM   #8
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 64,498
Local Time: 09:09 PM
am i mistaken or wasn't katrina downgraded to a high 2/low 3 by the time it hit new orleans?
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:11 PM   #9
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
am i mistaken or wasn't katrina downgraded to a high 2/low 3 by the time it hit new orleans?
I thought it made landfall as a 4 and then lessened (as they will all do once they hit land), but I could be wrong...
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:14 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Here we go....

Quote:
At one stage a category-5 hurricane, Katrina ultimately made landfall in Louisiana and Mississippi at category 4 strength.
http://www.weather.com/newscenter/tr...=wxcenter_news
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:14 PM   #11
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 06:09 PM
I believe when Katrina hit it was a catagory 4, like what LivLuv said. It was going to be a catagory 5 but changed direction and lost some speed.
Justin24 is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:47 PM   #12
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,370
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


It was stuck in the pile with the "Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened" memo....


you mean the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within the US" memo?
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 01-24-2006, 02:55 PM   #13
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,228
Local Time: 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


It was stuck in the pile with the "Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened" memo....
That's a big pile and Bush has admitted he's not a big reader.

Cut him some slack.
BVS is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 08:35 PM   #14
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Se7en's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: all around in the dark - everywhere
Posts: 3,531
Local Time: 08:09 PM
honestly, who's surprised by this?
Se7en is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 09:12 PM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
am i mistaken or wasn't katrina downgraded to a high 2/low 3 by the time it hit new orleans?
That was my recollection....

They downgraded it...and all over the news the next morning were reports that New Orleans had weathered the brunt of it fine.

I love these threads....almost made me retire the last time I got into one.

Have at it kids....

I held back three weeks ago when the economic information came out that CLEARLY showed that economics had nothing to do with the loss of life....I figured that it really was not worth stirring the pot that nothing productive could come of such a discussion. It certainly would not bring anyone back from the dead.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 09:39 PM   #16
Refugee
 
wizard2c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,580
Local Time: 01:09 AM
reply

Tell it to the insurance carriers here in Florida.....premium jumps of up to 100%!! And that does not even include the flood insurance which is recommended for all.
Oh happy day........................
wizard2c is offline  
Old 01-24-2006, 11:20 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


That was my recollection....

They downgraded it...and all over the news the next morning were reports that New Orleans had weathered the brunt of it fine.
Unfortunately "the news" in general seems to lack even rudimentary knowledge of how a hurricane works.

Not to mention, arguing (from either side) that the levees should have withstood this or that Category is almost arbitrary considering....

Quote:
the levees that protect New Orleans was built before the creation of the Saffir-Simpson scale of classifying hurricanes, so different parts of the system protect against varying levels of wind speed, storm surge and barometric pressure.
Katrina was a Category 3 or 4 at landfall (I keep finding different reports from different sources), but these Categories have wide ranges for storm surge, wind speeds, ground speed, etc. Not to mention that once the hurricane passes, there's the pressure system left trailing behind that will dump rain for days. If the storm surge doesn't do severe damage at landfall, the flooding will inevitably be destructive in a place like NO.

I still don't understand why anyone though they had a fighting chance. I don't understand the evacuation procedures, WAY too little, too late, and I don't understand why people wanted to stay, or why people were allowed to stay.
Liesje is offline  
Old 01-25-2006, 10:11 AM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,652
Local Time: 07:09 PM
White House Declines to Provide Storm Papers
By ERIC LIPTON
Published: January 25, 2006

WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 - The Bush administration, citing the confidentiality of executive branch communications, said Tuesday that it did not plan to turn over certain documents about Hurricane Katrina or make senior White House officials available for sworn testimony before two Congressional committees investigating the storm response.

The White House this week also formally notified Representative Richard H. Baker, Republican of Louisiana, that it would not support his legislation creating a federally financed reconstruction program for the state that would bail out homeowners and mortgage lenders. Many Louisiana officials consider the bill crucial to recovery, but administration officials said the state would have to use community development money appropriated by Congress.

The White House's stance on storm-related documents, along with slow or incomplete responses by other agencies, threatens to undermine efforts to identify what went wrong, Democrats on the committees said Tuesday.

"There has been a near total lack of cooperation that has made it impossible, in my opinion, for us to do the thorough investigation that we have a responsibility to do," Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat of Connecticut, said at Tuesday's hearing of the Senate committee investigating the response. His spokeswoman said he would ask for a subpoena for documents and testimony if the White House did not comply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/25/po...rtner=homepage
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 01-25-2006, 12:11 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,440
Local Time: 01:09 AM
Does anyone remember all the news reports the day after the hurricane (Monday), when the news reporters were all talking about how great it was that N.O. had been largely spared? Brian Williams etc walking around dry areas of N.O., saying the storm was over and the rebuilding could begin...

The levees didn't start breaking in earnest until Monday night -- long after the storm had passed.

The levee problem has been bouncing around in policy for the past twenty years. I'm not sure what anyone could do two hours before the storm hit...esp since N.O. had been largely deserted and Nagin refused to deploy the waiting buses.
nathan1977 is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 12:50 PM   #20
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ATL and Boca Raton
Posts: 133
Local Time: 01:09 AM
Re: reply

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard2c
Tell it to the insurance carriers here in Florida.....premium jumps of up to 100%!! And that does not even include the flood insurance which is recommended for all.
Oh happy day........................
I hear you. Palm Beach County taxes have doubled as well. I am seeing a lot of places up for sale because some can simply not afford it anymore. They are saying that it is the Atlantic's turn this year. My insurance company stil hasn'f fixed my roof damage from Wilma.
__________________

BOCAGATOR is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×