Weddings & Religion

[Bonochick]

Well, as most of you have heard, drgnwolf1969 and I are engaged now. We won't be getting married for probably 2 or 3 years though, as we both want to finish school first, and one of us will have to move to be with the other. However, we are doing some rough planning and speculation. One was the type of wedding we'd have. He is a Baptist, and I am a Catholic. He suggested a Baptist wedding, and I agreed. I told my parents and my sister, and they said, "Are you serious? Baptist? They don't drink or dance!" Mom says I should have Presbyterian wedding. That is what she had, but she is a Presbyterian.

I'll be honest, I possess very little knowledge on different religions and the types of weddings they have. Does anybody have any advice for us?

I know it may be a little early to be thinking about such things, but it has been eating away at my mind the past few days.

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"I Can Lose Myself, You I Can't Live Without"

 

[U2Bama]

Congratulations on your engagement!

My wife and I had a Methodist ceremony (we are both Methodist) at my childhood church, followed by a short reception at the church, but many of the weddings we've gone to have been followed by a reception elsewhere.

A Baptist wedding ceremony is usually shorter than a Catholic ceremony, as the Catholic ceremony involves more ritual. he Baptist (and some Methodist) ceremonies I've been to last about 20 - 30 minutes.

Alcohol wouldn't be served at a reception on the church grounds at a Baptist or Methodist church, and probably not at a Presbyterian church either. Some Espiscopal services may alllow wine and champagne to be served but probably not beer or liquor, all of which I have seen at Catholic churhc receptions.

Even if you had a Baptist church ceremony, you could have a drinkin' and dancin' and heck-raisin' reception afterwards at a nice house or country club or hotel, etc. I went to one like that last week and they played "Whoomp! (There It Is!)."

~U2Alabama

 

[pub crawler]

Get the best of both worlds -- go Episcopalian. We dance, drink, and even say the 'F' word when appropriate. At our church we have a few openly gay folks serving in leadership positions, which is pretty rad. Wine and cheese are common at social functions, be it on the church grounds or at someone's home.
Bama, we do serve beer at our functions, but you may be right about liquor (I haven't seen it served on church grounds, anyway).

 

[pub crawler]

Oh, and Bonochick, congrats!

 

[AM]

First of all: Congratulations on your engagement! ?

I?m a Bahai and my husband is protestant, but when we decided to get married, we wanted both a Bahai wedding.

In the Bahai faith, we have no priests, so when we get married, we say the 'magic' words ourselves directly to God. There need to be two witnesses present, but that?s all.

You can have a Bahai wedding whereever you like, we had ours in a little cottage and invited only some of our best friends and closest family. It was lovely. Very intimate. Very spiritual, exactley like we wanted it to be.

 

[melon]

Tradition states that the bride's religion is where the wedding should take place. As it currently stands, you seem to be flip-flopped.

By all means, if you really want one, you should have a Catholic wedding, as that is your (the bride) religion. It will, however, only be a ceremony, not a mass, as the Catholic Church only includes a mass when both the bride and groom are Catholic.

If you choose to have a wedding outside the Catholic church--regardless of the religion--it will not be recognized by the Catholic Church, unless you have a priest present. He doesn't necessarily have to participate in the ceremony at all, but--someone correct me if I'm wrong--one just has to be there to witness it and henceforth validate it.

I do not know how devout of a Catholic you are, but please be aware that conflict often takes place amongst people of such vastly different religious backgrounds (Baptist and Catholicism are pretty much on opposite ends of the Christian spectrum). I do hope that both of you have discussed areas of potential confliction--i.e., What religion would your children be? What does he expect out of you as a wife?--beforehand. You might find yourself unpleasantly surprised if you don't bring it up. Needless to say, many divorces do arise from religion problems.

Concerns aside, congratulations! I hope you two will be very happy together.

Melon

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?Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality.? - Hui-neng (638-713)

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 08-22-2001).]

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

Congrats Bonochick! Bama gives a good synopsis of the differences between the two ceremonies. I think melon brings up some very good points. That's REALLY important stuff for you guys to talk about now.
Also, and this may only be a matter of semantics, I would say that the two of you aren't of different religions. Different denominations, I guess, but Baptists and Catholics are both part of Christianity...of the Church of which Christ is head. Both the Catholic church and most (if not all) Baptist churches agree with the Nicene Creed. Yes, the two may differ beyond that in terms of style of worship, importance of the Pope and the Bible, justification by faith, and the preisthood, (some significant issues) but there is a great deal in common between the two. For example, Melon and I would disagree on A LOT of "religious issues", but from what I've read from him, we agree on the big stuff and I consider him a brother in Christ. I guess I'm getting off topic here. Anyway...this is a decision for the two of you to make together. You need to understand the difference between the Catholic church and the Baptist church and then decide how important those differences are to each of you. Talk to your priest/his pastor. Be honest with each other and with yourselves.

Just my advice...(you asked for it!

)

 

[Bonochick]

Well, I basically became a Catholic because it was expected of me. Growing up, I hated my church because the kids that I was grouped with at the church for classes and such were always mean to me, which made it an unpleasant experience. I did however sing in a Presbyterian choir and was a member of a Baptist youth group.

I think I'm just confusing myself more now...*sigh*

Thank you, Bama, melon, pubcrawler, AM, and Spiral...looks like John and I have lots to talk about.

Anybody else have any input?

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"I Can Lose Myself, You I Can't Live Without"

 

[Anthony]

"Anybody else have any input?"

I hope you won't mind my input?
I'll take silence as a positive token.
Primarily, congrats! I have always been a protestor for marriage, always sermonising on how marriage destroys the female and glorifies the male, devastating their life together and turning into mulch.. however, I have been told that I am terribly old-fashioned.

What can you do? Marriage has always gotten in the way for me...

My advice, again, forgive me for butting in, is to have a CIVIL wedding... as in, no real church or religious institution. WOuld you mind that? Would your faince? That way you can unify all faiths and at the same time deplore the concept of diverse religions in one go. I think its safe to say that all religions, by nature, are one and praise the same God anyway... is it necessary to satisfy all faiths, when you can just embrace them with a token of unification? All faiths are one, and I hope the both of you become one, if you aren't already.

My blessings'
Ant.

 

[Anthony]

Oh, and another thing. I see some talk about the upbringing of your children and their religion; the concept of religion corrupts the human mind in the end... it is always safe to keep your children free of such corruption (not that anyone who follows religion is corrupt... but religion causes more trouble than its really worth, you must agreee!)

Ant.

 

[pub crawler]

Oh, I dunno, Anthony.... religion can't be all bad... it has, afterall, made me into the helpful fuck I am today -- you know, a real do-gooder.

Yay for world peace! Yay for lifting the poor out of the morass!

It depends on what you do with it.

 

[Anthony]

"It depends on what you do with it."

True, I have to agree with you there. However, I think that your goodness and you being a 'helpful fuck' or words to that effect is more owed to your inherent goodness as a decent human being, rather than religious indoctrinations. My only point was that, more often than not, religion is at best superfuous...if not corruptive.

Ant.

 

[Bonochick]

Anthony~

That actually isn't a bad idea. We've been doing a lot of talking lately, and that will be something for us to consider. I confess, I've never been much of a religious person, since I did not like my church growing up. I loved the Presbyterian church where I belonged to the choir, but after I had to move, I never did find a new church, so religion hasn't played much of a role, except for personal prayer and such.

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"I Can Lose Myself, You I Can't Live Without"

 

[pub crawler]

I'm glad you've posted on this thread, Anthony, because you provide one of the few dissenting voices from the (seemingly numerous) Christians that post on this board. We need varying perspectives if we're ever going to have fruitful and interesting discussion here.

I'd be curious to read more of your thoughts on marriage, because some of your statements appear to be at odds with other of your statements. On the one hand, you state that you "have always been a protestor for marriage, always sermonising on how marriage destroys the female and glorifies the male, devastating their life together and turning into mulch.." On the other hand, you suggest that Bonochick consider a Civil marriage. If marriage is so terrible, why suggest it as an option at all?

Needless to say, I don't have a problem with marriage, per se.

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
On the other hand, you suggest that Bonochick consider a Civil marriage.

Whoops, I meant to write Civil wedding. I'm sure the marriage will be civil.

 

[Anthony]

Dear Pub Crawler;

The first thing you will and have noticed about me is my ability to contradict myself, but it is not without good reason.

Indeed it is true, I HAVE always been a protestor against marriage, always sermonising on how marriage destroys the female and glorifies the male, devastating their life together and turning into their promising life into mulch, in a way I still do. I have lost so much faith into marriage, simply because no one ever seems happy in it. What is it that Darryl Van Horne said in "THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK"? Something along the lines of 'marriage is a nasty word; I hate it. Good for the man but lousy for the woman; all you get in the end is a man complaining about how he's fucking a dead woman when he's the one who killed her!" Forgive the profanity, and forgive the fact that the quote is coming from a fictional character who's not only mysoginst but also the devil. That phrase does somewhat ring true to me. I have seen so many marriages fail, so many destroy REAL love and so many ruin people's lives. I have also seen it cause so much suffering when the two parties want to split and divorce scews the lives of their children... it just doesn't seem worth it and its also somethign really out of date. As you may have picked up, I am thoroughly anti-catholic (despite coming from a strictly catholic upbringing) and marriage is one of those things that fall under Catholicism for me, albeit Catholicism didnt invent marriage.

On the other hand, I do suggest that Bonochick consider a Civil wedding/marriage. Mainly because a) a civil marriage is so much less complicated, as it ignores the entire concept of religion and b)it is so much less OFFICIAL, if you know what I mean. Not that it is considered any less binding or valuable than any other marriage, but its a purely psychological thing. For some reason, the human brain finds it in itself to complicate the simplest of matters; the role of religion within the marital structure is of no exception. See how many debates and interests are festering at the mere hint of the word 'marriage'? Who gives a pair of rotted dingo's kidney's what church Bonochik uses, as long as she and her fiance are together in soul? Apparently, some people do, and God knows you can't satisfy everyone's demands and expectations. Its too much to ask for. That is why a CIVIL WEDDING would be the most logical option. It IS a marriage (and they DO want to get married, don't they? Who am I to judge their relationship at all... THAT is why I'm advising marriage altogether) but it isn't a relgious one. Therefore, it doesnt really contradict my argument, my aim is to get rid of religious intervention, get rid of that and just be happy with the concept of being together.

Ant.

 

[Crzy4Bono]

Bonochick - first of all congratulations again!

*crzy had an Episcopal wedding - you know catholic light - all of the sin, none of the guilt lol - plenty of wine flowing there anyway*

I really have two suggestions for you:
1. You could go ahead and have the wedding in a baptist church - if it doesn't really matter to you, then the wedding could go ahead in the church (and a lot shorter than a catholic mass too!

) then adjourn to a country club or some other location for your reception, where you can drink and dance and do whatever else to your heart's content. (This is actually what we did for my wedding and it worked out great).

2. You could also get married somewhere other than a church (could be a civil service, or not). You can even arrange to have a priest and a minister from each religion there to satisfy both families. Could be a park, a beach, your college campus, whatever.

Good luck and just keep in mind - the only thing that matters about your wedding is that the two of you walk away from it married - all the rest is just dressing!

Peace!

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She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

 

[AM]

Originally posted by Anthony:
Oh, and another thing. I see some talk about the upbringing of your children and their religion; the concept of religion corrupts the human mind in the end... it is always safe to keep your children free of such corruption (not that anyone who follows religion is corrupt... but religion causes more trouble than its really worth, you must agreee!)

Ant.

I think it is very important to bring up your children so that they will love and honour God. You know, religion and faith is something completely different. Religion is manmade. But faith is something directly from God. It is a gift from God that he gave us.

I?m also very surprised about what you have to say about marriage. I?ve been married for 4 years now, and I?m very happy. But marriage is always what YOU make of it. It?s not the institution itself, but what YOU make out of it.

 

[Anthony]

Dear AM,

I am not a parent, and I have no proper views on how to raise a child, but I was always brought up to love and honour Man, not just a God in some heaven. Bernard Shaw once said "beware of the man who's God lives in the sky". The best way for children and people to honour God is to honour humanity everyday of their lives; not by attending church every Sunday or whatever your particular faith dictates. I am not saying that religion is completely negative, but you do not need religion, or faith for that matter, to raise a decent if not beautiful human being. God isn't in the heavens looking down upon us in judgement and expecting us to honour it, it (I refer to God as IT, since I hate it when people refer to it as HIM or HE, since when was it known that God had a gender?)exits in us all. The belief in God doesn't purely have to stem from 'faith'.

"I?m also very surprised about what you have to say about marriage."

Surprised, but not offended I hope. I didn't mean to offend, merely to present another side, marriage hasn't worked for everyone.
Marriage is indeed what you make of it, and most people know that (though, ofcourse, some do not), however, I am still of the belief that Love doesn't have to be so 'labelled'. As long as the love between the two people is recognised by them, who cares what anybody else recognises? People refer to marriage as the 'union before God', thats complete nonsense. As I stated before, God doesn't live in a Church, at least, mine doesn't. I am happy that you are happy in your marriage, but it still doesnt' remove the fact that I have seen tradition corrupt many lives, marriage falls under tradition for me.

Ant.