Virtuous Religious Leaders

[A_Wanderer]

Keeping the faith

MOGADISHU, Somalia - Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days.

Public places such as shops and tea houses in Bulo Burto, about 124 miles northeast of the capital, Mogadishu, should be closed during prayer time and no one should be on the streets, said Sheik Hussein Barre Rage, the chairman of the town’s Islamic court.

Those who do not follow this edict “will definitely be beheaded according to Islamic law,” Rage told The Associated Press by phone. “As Muslims, we should practice Islam fully, not in part, and that is what our religion enjoins us to do.”

He said that the courts are announcing the edict over loudspeakers in the town.

link

 

[coemgen]

This is sick and sad. I can't help but honestly feel and after hearing this. These are barbaric spiritual lies. My prayers are definitely for everyone involved.

 

[Axver]

Way to show the love of God!

What I would like to know is how they plan to enforce this. To find shops open during prayer times, wouldn't they have to actually go out, drive around, find these shops, and miss prayers themselves?

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Way to show the love of God!

What I would like to know is how they plan to enforce this. To find shops open during prayer times, wouldn't they have to actually go out, drive around, find these shops, and miss prayers themselves?

Don't worry they told Allah before hand and he said 'it's cool' in a surprisingly down to earth manner.

Not much can be said about this. I'll just say I really don't like Islam even the 'moderate' version of it. I've read too much about it and it's not just the fundamentalist side I dislike, it's the core. It regulates EVERY aspect of life and it leaves human development of anyone who adopts it in the dark ages. No one in Islamic society will ever progress especially considering the way in which state law is so closely correlated with the teachings of Islam and I think everyone will agree with me. I don't like Islam and I am not afraid to say it. Bring on the flames.

 

[DaveC]

*waits to see what's going to happen*

 

[verte76]

This is sick.

 

[all_i_want]

Don't worry they told Allah before hand and he said 'it's cool' in a surprisingly down to earth manner.

Not much can be said about this. I'll just say I really don't like Islam even the 'moderate' version of it. I've read too much about it and it's not just the fundamentalist side I dislike, it's the core. It regulates EVERY aspect of life and it leaves human development of anyone who adopts it in the dark ages. No one in Islamic society will ever progress especially considering the way in which state law is so closely correlated with the teachings of Islam and I think everyone will agree with me. I don't like Islam and I am not afraid to say it. Bring on the flames.

Looking back at your previous posts, I am hardly surprised by the statements in this one. Coming from a 99% Muslim country, I couldn't disagree with you more. Your views are not only narrow-minded, but also represents a very ethnocentric view of an issue that is only remotely familiar to you. Saying you dislike the 'core' of a religion that you quite obviously don't have an extensive understanding of is at best ignorant. Turkey is an essentially Muslim country, but it is governed by a secular constitution and is a staunchly secular state. I, for one, am quite skeptical of religion in general myself, however I still strive to have a greater understanding of it, rather than brand it as 'alien' and 'wrong' like you seem to do. Meanwhile, you can continue to dislike what you don't understand.

 

[DaveC]

Damn. I was hoping nobody would respond to that.

Here we go...

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Ignorance breeds intolerance. That goes for Muslims as well as non-Muslims, as I think this thread proves.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that sometimes knowledge can breed healthy dislike. One can have antipathy even hatred for ideas without hating people on an individual level. it seems COEXIST is fine for people of the book but beyond that we enter dangerous territory, I don't think that the Abrahamic religions can brush over the damage that has been done to people who were charged with atheism or apostacy.

 

[coemgen]

^Nice point.

 

[all_i_want]

I think that sometimes knowledge can breed healthy dislike. One can have antipathy even hatred for ideas without hating people on an individual level. it seems COEXIST is fine for people of the book but beyond that we enter dangerous territory, I don't think that the Abrahamic religions can brush over the damage that has been done to people who were charged with atheism or apostacy.

Well, if the Abrahamic religious ever manage to COEXIST, then the world can take it from there. The biggest conflicts right now are not between the religious and the atheists, but between people of different religious faiths.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Let me put it another way; does anybody here hate Focus on the Family, Answers in Genesis or the BNP because they are ignorant about what they stand for?

Likewise should a line be held for religious beliefs that involve the enforcing of 7th Century Arabian ideals upon a whole population. I think so, I think such actions are the worst of religion up there with seggregation or death for belief or sex and harmful rituals.

If you want to live as a fundamentalist all the power to you, but if your belief involves ensalving others - which is what this really is, forcing people to obey with force and no reward, that oversteps the bounds. I am saying explicitly that the theology embraced by the Islamic Courts in Somalia is offensive to what I percieve as my ideals, if Islam truly is as peaceful and innocent as so many insist then there should be no problem in stating this.

I am oppsed to the idea of a God that interferes with humanity or imbues us with will, I don't find any comfort in being judged on the basis of archaic rules or diminishing this life with false promises of an afterlife, revealed truth is an insult to logic and a lazy appeal to authority.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Well, if the Abrahamic religious ever manage to COEXIST, then the world can take it from there. The biggest conflicts right now are not between the religious and the atheists, but between people of different religious faiths.

It's not a demand it's recognition of the lowest common denominator between them; well unbelievers, gays, women, pesky ethnic groups etc., anyhow few find identify or affirm themselves by the lack of belief, and it is an act of individualism in many situations and ,uch easier to extinguish by force.

 

[all_i_want]

Let me put it another way; does anybody here hate Focus on the Family, Answers in Genesis or the BNP because they are ignorant about what they stand for?

Likewise should a line be held for religious beliefs that involve the enforcing of 7th Century Arabian ideals upon a whole population. I think so, I think such actions are the worst of religion up there with seggregation or death for belief or sex and harmful rituals.

If you want to live as a fundamentalist all the power to you, but if your belief involves ensalving others - which is what this really is, forcing people to obey with force and no reward, that oversteps the bounds.

I am oppsed to the idea of a God that interferes with humanity or imbues us with will, I don't find any comfort in being judged on the basis of archaic rules or diminishing this life with false promises of an afterlife, revealed truth is an insult to logic and a lazy appeal to authority.

I agree with this. Religious belief should never be the source of governance, law making or institutions. It is simply offensive, because belief should come from the inside, not be imposed from the outside. What value does such faith have, anyway, if you HAVE to believe, but not choose to?

 

[A_Wanderer]

The same faith that North Koreans have in the Great Leader and Dear Leader, belief is belief.

 

[Harry Vest]

Don't worry they told Allah before hand and he said 'it's cool' in a surprisingly down to earth manner.

Not much can be said about this. I'll just say I really don't like Islam even the 'moderate' version of it. I've read too much about it and it's not just the fundamentalist side I dislike, it's the core. It regulates EVERY aspect of life and it leaves human development of anyone who adopts it in the dark ages. No one in Islamic society will ever progress especially considering the way in which state law is so closely correlated with the teachings of Islam and I think everyone will agree with me. I don't like Islam and I am not afraid to say it. Bring on the flames.

I have to say I AGREE WITH YOU!!!
Having said that - I do know a family here in Winnipeg who are Muslim (moderate) and they are one of the most loving and joyful people I have ever come across so we cannot judge all Muslim's by the actions of many - however it seems that in the past 30 years or so there has been a steady rise in hyper fundamentalist Islam and Christian peoples. I would guess there's more to the picture than meets the eye. I guess only God knows.

 

[verte76]

Most Muslims are like you and me. They get up, get the kids to school, go to work, work hard.............the core of Islam is really very simple, they have five rules. One of these deals with prayer, one deals with providing alms for the poor, one deals with the pilgrimage to Mecca, one deals with the fasting obligation during Ramadan, and damn, I forget the fifth one. I'm a practicing Catholic so I think I can be forgiven for not knowing much about Islam. It is true that Islam has a strong public aspect to it, because it has so much to say about social justice. This is what made alot of people really oppose Mohammed during his life here. Muslims have no trouble accepting the U.S. Constitution here. As long as they don't have a problem with our Constitution I don't see why I should worry about them.

 

[BoMac]

It is simply offensive, because belief should come from the inside, not be imposed from the outside. What value does such faith have, anyway, if you HAVE to believe, but not choose to?

I think this is the most intelligent thing I have read on here in a while.

I agree with you on this. When belief comes from within and is not imposed on you it means so much more. It's a little bit like receiving a gift on September 14 rather than only on February 14. It means so much more when the gift comes out of the blue than when we are EXPECTED to buy something on Valentine's Day. I'm not sure if this makes sense to people but it does to me.

 

[yolland]

lmao.

Well, it wasn't inevitable that Somalia would devolve into an Islamist krytocracy, but given the last 40 years of Somali political history it's not surprising either. Two decades of bloody Marxist dictatorship followed by two decades of chaos and anarchy, regularly punctuated by mass slaughter, rape, looting and piracy at the hands of thug clan warlords loyal to no one and nothing but themselves, isn't much of a precedent for peaceful coexistence to work with. The ICU were able to gain control of as much of the country as they have because they were perceived as the only party with the discipline to restore some semblance of law and order; they provided schools, clinics and police as well as courts and militias, though many of those militias were mercenary in character. But now the Hawiye are dangerously overrepresented among the judges which is where the real power is, the Shabab forces are slipping out of the ICU's control and increasingly the individual court districts are being run like petty fiefdoms at the whim of whatever semiliterate judges and their armed cronies happen to be in power in the area, as here in Bulo Burto. Meanwhile Ethiopia continues to mass troops on the border, threatening to intervene on the side of the exiled warlords and the JVA thus dramatically escalating the conflict, while separatist militias continue to flourish in Puntland and Somaliland in the north. Oh, and there are worries that al-Qaeda may be putting down roots in the ICU as well.

But hey, it's so much less confusing to write it all off as a Muslim problem. Or is it the case that only the sharia judges are worth tsk-tsking about, and the rest of it is all just another bunch of confoundedly violent Africans killing each other again for whatever impenetrable reason?

 

[intedomine]

Not much can be said about this. I'll just say I really don't like Islam even the 'moderate' version of it. I've read too much about it and it's not just the fundamentalist side I dislike, it's the core. It regulates EVERY aspect of life and it leaves human development of anyone who adopts it in the dark ages.

I've often felt that hardcore or fundamentalist Christianity or Catholicism or whatever is similar in this respect. Thankfully, these kind of folk are uncommon and aren't given much of a voice to preach their own kind of "dark aged" fundamentalism (particularly where I come from anyway).

No one in Islamic society will ever progress especially considering the way in which state law is so closely correlated with the teachings of Islam and I think everyone will agree with me. I don't like Islam and I am not afraid to say it. Bring on the flames.

I don't like Islamic teachings either, but at times I wonder if Christian or Athiestic-politically correct teachings are goin' out of control as well, but why should that matter to anyone.

I don't like Islam and I'm not afraid to say it either. I don't like Christianity or Athiesm and I'm not afraid to say that either.

Religion is something I want nothing to do with, and if I were to say I didn't like a particular religion, that's my problem and not anyone else's. It doesnt mean I'm not gonna like or care for an individual if I don't like or respect their faith. One's faith is irrelevant to me.


Surely the ghastly situation in Somalia is a blatant yet unwritten crime against humanity that any sane and compassionate person would recognise, be them Muslim, Christian, Athiest or whatever....

 

[A_Wanderer]

Atheism isn't a proscribed set of beliefs - it may in some instances be the absence of belief or technically the belief in something other than God(s), to say you don't like atheism is the same as you don't like theism - which would cover everything from Christianity, Judaism and Islam to Hinduism and Ancient Greek Polytheism.

 

[Angela Harlem]

lmao.

Well, it wasn't inevitable that Somalia would devolve into an Islamist krytocracy, but given the last 40 years of Somali political history it's not surprising either. Two decades of bloody Marxist dictatorship followed by two decades of chaos and anarchy, regularly punctuated by mass slaughter, rape, looting and piracy at the hands of thug clan warlords loyal to no one and nothing but themselves, isn't much of a precedent for peaceful coexistence to work with. The ICU were able to gain control of as much of the country as they have because they were perceived as the only party with the discipline to restore some semblance of law and order; they provided schools, clinics and police as well as courts and militias, though many of those militias were mercenary in character. But now the Hawiye are dangerously overrepresented among the judges which is where the real power is, the Shabab forces are slipping out of the ICU's control and increasingly the individual court districts are being run like petty fiefdoms at the whim of whatever semiliterate judges and their armed cronies happen to be in power in the area, as here in Bulo Burto. Meanwhile Ethiopia continues to mass troops on the border, threatening to intervene on the side of the exiled warlords and the JVA thus dramatically escalating the conflict, while separatist militias continue to flourish in Puntland and Somaliland in the north. Oh, and there are worries that al-Qaeda may be putting down roots in the ICU as well.

But hey, it's so much less confusing to write it all off as a Muslim problem. Or is it the case that only the sharia judges are worth tsk-tsking about, and the rest of it is all just another bunch of confoundedly violent Africans killing each other again for whatever impenetrable reason?

Thank you.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Atheism isn't a proscribed set of beliefs - it may in some instances be the absence of belief or technically the belief in something other than God(s), to say you don't like atheism is the same as you don't like theism - which would cover everything from Christianity, Judaism and Islam to Hinduism and Ancient Greek Polytheism.

exactly.

Athiests generally arn't a "group" like a religious faith, we are seperate, different, we don't believe in any "prescribed" religion, but we are not the same in our own belief systems, some are completely scientifical, others cynical, others share some beliefs, just no god blah blah beliefs.

Also, I'll never understand why people are affronted by atheism, and take offence to it. but this has nothing to do with this thread, so won't say anymore.

Scary though. That whole are of Africa is a time bomb

 

[Alisaura]

Athiests generally arn't a "group" like a religious faith, we are seperate, different, we don't believe in any "prescribed" religion, but we are not the same in our own belief systems, some are completely scientifical, others cynical, others share some beliefs, just no god blah blah beliefs.

I always thought of atheists as people who do not believe in God(s)... who believe that there is(are) no God(s).

I was told that someone who doesn't know what to believe, or who simply is sitting on the fence, is an agnostic.

Is that too fine a distinction? I've met a number of people who define themselves as one and not the other.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Well technically atheists reject or believe that there is no god/s OR there is a statement of non belief, such as tribes, or families where religion isn't present (therefore there is nothing to reject, they just know of NO such religious figures) but there are whole different levels, from strong atheism - explicit rejection of gods/deities to weak atheism. Atheists can also have beliefs, not in actual religious figures or religion per say, but in morals, and even some say buddism (because of no actual "gods" are focussed and it is more about life lessons then theism)

agnostic is being skeptical about religion. Its saying I can see you have religion but I don't know WHY you have it. Its more like - you can't be completely sure religion is true, no man can know, so its a healthy way of looking at something. Its basically being no commital to any religion.