US Presidential Election XII

[Debra S]

Why exactly are you taken aback?



Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

I was wondering if someone would comment on this (Stein's proposal to remove all US military bases-some 200 actually). Yes, it seems an imposition or an "imperial" kind of situation, but it has developed in the modern era as a result of international threats, such as communism, and the need to bolster our allies with military assistance. Like it or not, the US is the leader of the free world, and we need those bases just in case some attack would ever come. Look at Russia, advancing in Ukraine and the Crimea, for instance, or China building islands in the South China sea...

 

[BVS]

I was wondering if someone would comment on this (Stein's proposal to remove all US military bases-some 200 actually). Yes, it seems an imposition or an "imperial" kind of situation, but it has developed in the modern era as a result of international threats, such as communism, and the need to bolster our allies with military assistance. Like it or not, the US is the leader of the free world, and we need those bases just in case some attack would ever come. Look at Russia, advancing in Ukraine and the Crimea, for instance, or China building islands in the South China sea...

I just find it curious, since Trump claims he'll do the same thing.

Were you not aware?

 

[Debra S]

No I had not heard that. He has been talking of bolstering our military, building it back up from a weaker position under Obama...I would assume that includes overseas. evidence??

 

[BigMacPhisto]

What's everybody's shock that Bernie could afford those homes? He doesn't live a lavish lifestyle and has made a considerable annual income for decades as a member of Congress. He's made millions in congressional salary, so what do you really expect?

Also, his campaign used items such as his book to give out to people that donated, etc. If he were to make a couple bucks in royalties off each one of those, that's a substantial amount of money to be made and it's nothing illegal either (Trump, himself, made it so he would be owning the company selling the hats to his campaign, I'm sure the Obama campaign used his books as donation tools, etc.)

But, no, let's just start harping on something we know nothing about regarding Sander's finances simply because we're still jealous that the heart, soul & youth of the party had the gall to nearly stop us from getting to tell our kids we voted for a female President right after the black guy.

Clinton has made more doing an average handful of corporate speeches than Bernie will ever see in a life time. Deal with it.




And I just did the math for all of you. From his 1991 term through 2014, Bernie made $3,651,000 and that doesn't count other business interests, potential investments, book earnings, etc. But, "OMG HE'S BUYING A $600,000 HOME!"

 

[corianderstem]

Fair point about the tone-deafness of Trump holding a rally in Milwaukee. however, West Bend is a LOL-worthy choice to speak about Milwaukee. It's over an hour away so might as well be Madison or Green Bay.

Plenty of other cities closer to Actual Milwaukee he could have chosen if he wanted to actually talk to the population he was supposedly addressing.

signed,

Former Milwaukee-adjacent resident (one county west, but still closer than West Bend)

 

[DaveC]

But, no, let's just start harping on something we know nothing about regarding Sander's finances simply because we're still jealous that the heart, soul & youth of the party had the gall to nearly stop us from getting to tell our kids we voted for a female President right after the black guy.

fucking troll behavior.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Yes, expressing an opinion about others having had their heart set on Clinton for eight years now must be trolling. Or was #ItsHerTurn not a thing?

Her grand coalition of racists that couldn't stand voting for Obama in the 2008 primaries, corporatists who are only on the left for the social issues because they hate paying taxes on their substantial incomes (some of which love to post in this thread), low information voters who admitted not knowing who Sanders was by the time they cast their ballots, and blacks who vote as an embarrassing monolith for whatever Democratic candidate they perceive to be the blackest (congratulations on already being halfway to the 2024 nomination, Mr. Booker!).

But it's alright, in about ten years the millennials will make up a plurality of the party's voters. A high school educated Clinton voter dies and a seventeen year old, eventual college graduate Sanders supporter registers to vote. I like that. #MakingThePartyHaveASoulAgain

 

[BVS]

And I just did the math for all of you. From his 1991 term through 2014, Bernie made $3,651,000 and that doesn't count other business interests, potential investments, book earnings, etc. But, "OMG HE'S BUYING A $600,000 HOME!"

I think the shock comes from his initial net worth release, which claimed his whole net worth was $500,000. So that shows us he's either really horrible with money, or he's not being honest.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Or you somehow think he would have kept every penny all of these years...that number above obviously doesn't mean he'd have 3.6 million dollars in 2014, christ. There's a thing called expenses that you have to pay as you live your life.

Might as well frame your illogical post above mine as an example of that jealousy I was just talking about.

 

[BVS]

Or you somehow think he would have kept every penny all of these years...that number above obviously doesn't mean he'd have 3.6 million dollars in 2014, christ. There's a thing called expenses that you have to pay as you live your life.

Might as well frame your illogical post above mine as an example of that jealousy I was just talking about.

:facepalm:

Do you understand how one's net worth is calculated?

 

[BVS]

No I had not heard that. He has been talking of bolstering our military, building it back up from a weaker position under Obama...I would assume that includes overseas. evidence??

This is a pretty well known stance, I'm surprised you're not aware.

Donald Trump Doesn’t Understand the Value of U.S. Bases Overseas | Foreign Policy

U.S. Foreign Military Support

The Many Ways Trump Has Turned the U.S. Foreign-Policy Consensus Upside Down - The Atlantic

Former NATO chief: Donald Trump is a global risk – POLITICO

 

[BigMacPhisto]

:facepalm:

Do you understand how one's net worth is calculated?

Absolutely. And when you pay for rent, groceries, electric bills, yada yada that's all money that disappears. What is so hard to understand here? Your net worth isn't the cumulative earnings you've made over decades. It's your cash on hand and assets that can range from stock holdings to property.

Also of note, Sanders was also substantially in debt in the early nineties and had to leverage his house because he had campaign debts to pay off.

Whereas Hillary Clinton needlessly ran up millions in campaign debt for her ongoing fruitless 2008 effort which the DNC ended up paying for entirely. Because, you know, the queen.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Taxes taxes taxes taxes

 

[BVS]

Absolutely. And when you pay for rent, groceries, electric bills, yada yada that's all money that disappears. What is so hard to understand here? Your net worth isn't the cumulative earnings you've made over decades. It's your cash on hand and assets that can range from stock holdings to property.

I'm just saying if I had made over 3 million in that time period, invested, book earnings, and owned 2 homes; my net worth would be a lot more than 500,000. Hell 2 homes alone would put you there. I make much less than he does and I'm close to that number and he has a few decades on me.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Taxes taxes taxes taxes

That too. And the congressional salary is all income so Sanders would never even see a substantial portion of that due to taxes. Probably about 30-40% of that money is gone right out of the gate.

 

[BVS]

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/gr...arambe-and-losing-to-deez-nuts-in-texas-poll/

I'm just glad Deez is back in the race.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

I'm just saying if I had made over 3 million in that time period, invested, book earnings, and owned 2 homes; my net worth would be a lot more than 500,000. Hell 2 homes alone would put you there. I make much less than he does and I'm close to that number and he has a few decades on me.

And were you also saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt twenty years ago or had to pay for a Washington D.C. apartment and expenses for decades, etc.?

And it's a free country. You can spend what you like and you don't have to invest a single dime in the stock market which itself is never a guarantee to pay off. We also have no idea how much of his money went to family members or charitable donations, etc. I also have no idea if mortgage debt can count against your net worth (perhaps it should?) or if Sanders could have just given a house to a kid for free, etc.

Sanders went into all of this as a guy who does no DNC fundraising, hasn't left politics for a corporate job and was merely a former Mayor before he became a congressman. He didn't enter Washington D.C. with millions in stock or owning a successful company like most of our members of congress. Of course he's going to be broke in comparison to everyone else because all he has earned, for the most part, is that salary.

But it's more perplexing that you still care to try and throw a knife in to the guy or try and argue about all of the minutiae of Trump. The election is literally over already and unless you're just wanting to be super proud of your candidate or get some vicarious thrill out of beating the big bad that is Trump, none of this matters whatsoever. No candidate in the history of polling (since World War II) has ever come back to win it when they've been behind at this stage in the election. Ever. It's done.

Spoiler

Clinton wins. Democrats take back the Senate. Republicans retain the House.

And for 2018:

Spoiler

Republicans make gains back in Congress regardless of their party's approval rating because of low turn-out mid-terms.

And 2020:

Spoiler

Clinton is re-elected and the Democrats make gains in both house of Congress but Republicans retain the House for obvious reasons.

And for 2022:

Spoiler

Republicans make gains back in Congress regardless of their party's approval rating because of low turn-out mid-terms.

Seriously. There's such a thing as guaranteed outcomes and we're now living it given predictable election turnout and this country's demographic trends. These fears over Trump winning (which are invalid although he did rightfully give people a scare a few months back) or saying that another Democrat can't win (Sanders would have this in the bag by a mile, just like any other person with a D attached to their name) are flat out ludicrous. Personality driven politics no longer apply and the results are almost all turnout driven.

 

[Bluer White]

Bernie's been outta the race for months. The lingering vitriol here is impressive.

Not surprising, but impressive nonetheless.

 

[BVS]

But it's more perplexing that you still care to try and throw a knife in to the guy or try and argue about all of the minutiae of Trump. The election is literally over already and unless you're just wanting to be super proud of your candidate or get some vicarious thrill out of beating the big bad that is Trump, none of this matters whatsoever. No candidate in the history of polling (since World War II) has ever come back to win it when they've been behind at this stage in the election. Ever. It's done.

I have no clue as to what you're going on about. You asked why it's such a shock, and I explained to you why. You claim your net worth is 500,000 and all of a sudden you buy a third house apparently worth more than your entire net worth at 74. That doesn't really compute.

This isn't some "knife throw" that's just happening in Interference, it's raising eyebrows all over. As it should.

 

[BVS]

Bernie's been outta the race for months. The lingering vitriol here is impressive.

Not surprising, but impressive nonetheless.

Yeah, so much "vitriol"

Man you must cower in the corner when you go to Breitbart or Fox News.

 

[Irvine511]

Bernie's been outta the race for months. The lingering vitriol here is impressive.

Not surprising, but impressive nonetheless.

mine was intended to be just a tiny preview of what Bernie would have faced had his record ever come under any actual scrutiny.

these were the sorts of things that were my big fear about him as the general nominee. i have absolutely no actual problems with him owning as many properties as he wants, or him being fantastically wealthy (or not). however, if you're presenting yourself as more moral and pure than everyone, you better actually be more moral and pure than anyone.

 

[Irvine511]

And I just did the math for all of you. From his 1991 term through 2014, Bernie made $3,651,000 and that doesn't count other business interests, potential investments, book earnings, etc. But, "OMG HE'S BUYING A $600,000 HOME!"

Clinton has never claimed to be anything other than fantastically wealthy these days.

if Bernie had been the nominee, you would have had to write a lot of these posts. over and over and over. and the label "hypocrite" still wouldn't have gone away, even if i actually agree with you here.

although the way Bernie manages money makes me uneasy. should he really be buying a home when he has somewhere near $50,000 in credit card debt alone?

 

[iron yuppie]

Why was it considered off-limits to question Hillary's married life but now okay to speculate about Bernie's private finances?

 

[BVS]

Why was it considered off-limits to question Hillary's married life but now okay to speculate about Bernie's private finances?

Really? Come on now... Why do you constantly pretend like you can't see the difference?




Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[Irvine511]

Why was it considered off-limits to question Hillary's married life but now okay to speculate about Bernie's private finances?

this isn't speculation. we know what Bernie's finances are because he has to disclose them.

we *are* speculating about what goes on in the Clinton marriage.

i have my own theory of their marriage, based upon innuendo, hearsay, and rumor. but i know that it's only a theory, and it doesn't impact my vote.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Is Bernie buying the property entirely in cash, even? I mean, what does taking out a mortgage really even mean in terms of one's own finances? Nor do we have any idea if he will be selling some other property in the near future.

And it wouldn't be the dumbest decision to go down that route and grab a mortgage despite his age. He's bound to get plenty of speaking gigs and has a few more years of Senate salary to pocket before he likely retires from congress in 2019.

I mean, you really think anything would have happened in the general election regarding some guy buying a house and the like? I mean, come on...let's be honest, Bernie is cleaner than they come and that's exactly why he resonated with so many people. By not having to be a Democrat and take the baggage that's entailed with that, you don't really have to answer to anyone.

I still chuckle at the mythical advertisements that people both here and in the rest of the internet said would be thrown at Bernie The Socialist if he were the nominee. Yet nobody ever even bothered to type or say the paragraph of text for these "brutal advertisements" they'd say would cost the Democrats the election. Sorry, but no.

And again, none of this matters. Focus on Hillary Clinton, our next President, and make sure she doesn't sell us out to the right. She's burned us enough, but now we've got an incredibly active political culture and half the party not really liking her.

For the record, I think a primary challenge from the left for Clinton is quite possible and she could very well lose. Imagine if the level of support Bernie received occurred from a primary challenger? She wouldn't have a prayer as most of her supporters would be complacent that the sitting President would win the nomination...really wouldn't rule it out, but it's going to depend entirely on her actions as President.

 

[Diemen]

This does seem to be a pointless distraction at this point.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Took all your small campaign contributions on an average of $27 and promised you a presidency.

Told you you'd get returns in the ways of free education and health care.

Bernie Sanders... more like Bernie Madoff amirite??

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Really? Come on now... Why do you constantly pretend like you can't see the difference?

It's digging for dirt either way. But people totally misinterpreted my point. I don't give a fuck about what goes on behind closed doors with the Clintons, but the public perception they try to give and any lying and smearing they do to keep it that way is a big fucking deal. That's the public sphere, period, especially given Bill's actions that placed it squarely in that realm.

If you can't be forthright with the American people, you don't deserve to be President. Hence the impeachment.

 

[BVS]

It's digging for dirt either way. But people totally misinterpreted my point. I don't give a fuck about what goes on behind closed doors with the Clintons, but the public perception they try to give and any lying and smearing they do to keep it that way is a big fucking deal. That's the public sphere, period, especially given Bill's actions that placed it squarely in that realm.



If you can't be forthright with the American people, you don't deserve to be President. Hence the impeachment.

No sir, no one misinterpreted your point. We all got your point, there's just a lot of speculation and believing you can read minds in order for your point to matter. This is the part you had major comprehension issues with.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference