US Presidential Election XII

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

does this routine ever wear anyone out? Trump's insane; Hillary's clearly crooked at this point -- why waste your time denying?

There's a difference between calling someone crooked and implying they had someone murdered.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Secondly, the world craves energy and we have it. This argument will not sit well with the Climate Apocalypse crowd . . . So be it. Trump proposes ramping up energy production by lifting regulations currently in place. The US has or is soon to pass Saudi Arabia in oil production. Not only will we become energy independent (not beholden to foreign interests in the Middle East/Russia) but we will profit through energy exports of coal, oil, and natural gas. Comparatively speaking we have an environmentally safer extraction technology compared to the rest of the world. We hear about Obama wanting to kick BPs ass for Deepwater Horizon but spills happen with much higher frequency in the shitty pipeline construction in Nigeria, damaging the African ecosystem.

I'm bound to get the "I can't believe you believe in this trickle down fantasy" responses, but I have more faith in the free market than a bunch of DC technocrats who've never run a pizza parlor let alone a multi-trillion dollar economy. The entitlement bills are coming due with the next wave of retirees. We need to start turning a profit or we will be screwed. In Hillary I see a manager of America's slow decline. In Trump I see a leader that will give the economy the shot of adrenaline it needs.


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I read posts like this in such frustration, because I want to point out everything wrong with it, but I just don't have the time, and since I'm on my phone, not enough thumbs.

And I'm not singling you out; job creation and economics are not black and white. No one has the formula. ANYBODY who tells you otherwise is full of shit. One of Hannity's favorite lines "it's real simple, just look back at the Reagan years..." blah, blah, blah. It doesn't work like that.

The whole notion of drill baby drill and energy independence sounds great but it's just simpleton. The notion of being "independent" and not dependent on foreign oil is very appealing isn't it, but what are the real consequences? In order for oil to produce jobs and grow economies the price has to be high enough. You move everything domestic and the price comes crashing down. Nice for the daily consumer, nice for the business owner dealing with gas expenses, but horrible for the overall economy. It's a shitty and complicated catch 22 of economics and energy.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg...


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[BEAL]

If the economy was easy to figure out, then I'd imagine economists would be very wealthy people.

They're not


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[BigMacPhisto]

Originally Posted by BEAL

If the economy was easy to figure out, then I'd imagine economists would be very wealthy people.

They're not

That's why we should look to Trump as he clearly knows what he's doing.

Personally, the best people to run this country's economy happen to be the children of people that were already very wealthy. Call it a strange correlation, but they all happen to generate the most income gains of anybody from birth to death. Perhaps success is hereditary?

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by BVS

The whole notion of drill baby drill and energy independence sounds great but it's just simpleton. The notion of being "independent" and not dependent on foreign oil is very appealing isn't it, but what are the real consequences? In order for oil to produce jobs and grow economies the price has to be high enough. You move everything domestic and the price comes crashing down. Nice for the daily consumer, nice for the business owner dealing with gas expenses, but horrible for the overall economy. It's a shitty and complicated catch 22 of economics and energy.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

I'd love to listen to Hannity with you one day and just go back and forth in a thread. Hannity does fall back on his tropes ALL THE TIME . . . penny plan, HSAs, blah blah.(Gets annoying) Rush is much more fresh and cutting. I enjoy Lou Dobbs on FBN more than Hannity now.

Back to your point. Your analysis has merit. Saudi Arabia has been pumping like crazy to stop the expansion of US fracking. Its cheaper to extract the gulf crude than fracking the Bakken field in North Dakota. It appears the companies are bringing the extraction costs down. Meanwhile the petro-state of Saudi Arabia is coming dangerously close to running deficits. Once that happens they won't be able to afford the pay-outs to their citizens. I read somewhere that about 40% of their men don't work and live off government stipends from oil revenue. Wouldn't be surprised if the country destabilizes into some kind of violence. Shia and Sunni both reside there and is the home of the Wahhabi sect.

That being said, India, SE Asia, and China have growing demand for oil. Would be nice to pocket some on the exportation to these areas.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

I thought I snapped Monday peddling Hillary conspiracies or as Vlad called it "performance art"


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Well yea but climbing up the side of the building is just too much. That's something Diamond would do <>

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto

That's why we should look to Trump as he clearly knows what he's doing.

Personally, the best people to run this country's economy happen to be the children of people that were already very wealthy. Call it a strange correlation, but they all happen to generate the most income gains of anybody from birth to death. Perhaps success is hereditary?

Are you taking the piss?

[Debra S]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

You know, I can see how Trump didn't mean what people think he meant with the whole "Second Amendment people" thing.

But when you say bonkers/apeshit/inarticulate/racist/assholish/WTF shit every time you open your mouth, don't be surprised when this sort of thing happens.

Poor Trumpy. So misunderstood.

Don't underestimate Trump. He beat out 16 republican contenders... and he has a degree from Wharton, the best business school in the US and part of the Ivy League (UPenn). And he did blockbusters on The Apprentice!

[Debra S]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

I'd love to listen to Hannity with you one day and just go back and forth in a thread. Hannity does fall back on his tropes ALL THE TIME . . . penny plan, HSAs, blah blah.(Gets annoying) Rush is much more fresh and cutting. I enjoy Lou Dobbs on FBN more than Hannity now.

Back to your point. Your analysis has merit. Saudi Arabia has been pumping like crazy to stop the expansion of US fracking. Its cheaper to extract the gulf crude than fracking the Bakken field in North Dakota. It appears the companies are bringing the extraction costs down. Meanwhile the petro-state of Saudi Arabia is coming dangerously close to running deficits. Once that happens they won't be able to afford the pay-outs to their citizens. I read somewhere that about 40% of their men don't work and live off government stipends from oil revenue. Wouldn't be surprised if the country destabilizes into some kind of violence. Shia and Sunni both reside there and is the home of the Wahhabi sect.

That being said, India, SE Asia, and China have growing demand for oil. Would be nice to pocket some on the exportation to these areas.

Whoah, all great information! Have we reached Peak oil, yet?

[nbelcik]

[QUOTE=Oregoropa;8091325I'm more attracted to Trump's plan of getting the government off the backs of business, be it large corporations down to mom & pop shops. Dropping the business tax rate from 35 to 15% creates incentive for tremendous growth in the economy. More growth equals more jobs. Dropping the rate would establish the US as a favorable base of operations for foreign companies as well. All of this expands the tax base. Wage growth increases the amount going to government coffers. This is running the United States as a business. [/QUOTE]


Lol, and you call Hillary's policies the status quo



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[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

Well yea but climbing up the side of the building is just too much. That's something Diamond would do <>

I was craving that Taco Bowl

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Debra S

Don't underestimate Trump. He beat out 16 republican contenders... and he has a degree from Wharton, the best business school in the US and part of the Ivy League (UPenn). And he did blockbusters on The Apprentice!

If he's so smart, how do you explain the bizarre bullshit that comes out every time he opens his mouth?

Also ... not sure if serious.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by cobl04

Are you taking the piss?

Fairly sure he is.

[Debra S]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

If he's so smart, how do you explain the bizarre bullshit that comes out every time he opens his mouth?

Also ... not sure if serious.

That is strange...he shoots from the hip. Apparently lots of people at rallies dig it. Honest, anyway, right?

[corianderstem]

Honest is not very high on the list of words I would use to describe him.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Debra S

Don't underestimate Trump. He beat out 16 republican contenders... and he has a degree from Wharton, the best business school in the US and part of the Ivy League (UPenn). And he did blockbusters on The Apprentice!

I'm thinking now you might be yanking our chains?

The fact that he knocked out the other contenders doesn't say much about him, says more about the party. Grain silo, anti-vaccine, a Bush, a fired CEO, and Satan? I could have knocked them out hungover and half asleep(would have been more awake than Carson). Wharton?! Come on you can't have it both ways; you can't praise one's Ivy League record while vilifying others or higher Ed in general. Apprentice? I almost believed you until you used this as part of his resume. Maybe Snooki can be your 2020 candidate?


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[Vlad n U 2]

I'm thinking this could be yet again another brilliant alter.

[BVS]

Every 4 years this place becomes interesting...

The banning rate increases too.


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[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

I cannot speak for everybody here, but for many Americans wages have flatlined over the past 20 years while the cost of living has gone up. Opportunities have diminished for millennials who want nothing more than to work than be stuck in their parents basements while the student loan bills fill the mailbox. At the end of the day the health of the American Dream is represented in the bi-weekly pay checks they look at twice a month. Whatever candidate can successfully connect the string of pearls from their macro-economic vision to those pay checks will win the election.

I think this is accurate for how many Americans feel - income is associated with sense of worth, for better or worse, and yes indeed wages have been stagnant relative to inflation for too long. That second piece needs to be addressed systematically, and it's going to take more than a minimum wage bump.

I think a big economic issue for both sides of the aisle is how to coax certain sectors of the population away from jobs that have no viable future in the United States - basically tradables like manufacturing. I think this starts with incentivizing the children of blue-collar parents to be trained in service sector jobs and other non-tradables. Trade schools for things like plumbing are a good idea as well, because one can get a decent job without mountains of debt, and you don't have to worry about someone calling a company in Indonesia if they have a burst pipe. Prioritizing community colleges financially might be a good idea as well.

Essentially you need to stop the cyclical nature of the blue collar jobs that are becoming obsolete without super-saturating tech and other hot fields. That is a tall order, but probably the best way forward for the many Americans who are economically frustrated.

[Oregoropa]

DEBRA !!!!!